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Dating Montblanc 146 (Legrand)


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48 replies to this topic

#1 neugeekig

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 19:10

Not only the 149 underwent various changes over time ...

 

Since the 146 was first produced in 1950, it changed a lot and even went out of production for a decade.

 

About a year ago, when I wanted to date the used 146s I was buying, I started this spreadsheet.

And as I learned a lot in this forum, I'm happy to share the gathered information -  as suggested by siamackz, carlos.q and sanfong, here is the the extra thread on it  :)

 
dating146.JPG
shared google doc - always up to date: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

If you find any mistake or have new information, please share. I'll try to keep this doc updated.

 

cheers!

Stefan

 

 

PS: thanks to DKbRS for the inspiration with his dating 149s thread & chart


Edited by neugeekig, 28 June 2018 - 19:22.


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#2 neugeekig

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 19:17

One important note upfront.

As always with these charts, there are transition periods between changing-years. So your pen could have elements from two separate epochs, as Montblanc didn't stop using parts if there were still some in stock.



#3 Michael R.

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 19:39

Very interesting.

I've been working on something similar but it is far from finished yet ;-)

So I can appreciate all the work and efforts.

One topic which always gets me thinking is the transitional 146 with the blue ink window.

I suspect that it was made in the 60s already as it shows many features which other models from the 60s share.

Also the first regular production 146 (monotone nib and grey ink window) is already shown in the a 1973 catalog/price list.


All celluloid pens and earlier modern pens (> 1970s) I've handled had a two piece barrel construction (section and barrel on celluloid models; section, barrel and collar on early resin models). I need to check on current models and on the transitional models. They may show a different construction.

Also very early resin pens (grey ink window) with 14C (not 14K!) monotone nibs are missing in the chart. Those pens hat a more straight collar as well (not as angled as on later models).

I'm really looking forward what others will come up with.

 

Cheers

 

Michael


Edited by Michael R., 28 June 2018 - 20:03.


#4 Tom Kellie

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 19:39

~ neugeekig:

 

Thank you for the considerable effort to prepare the chart above concerning 146 dating.

 

It's very nice of you to post it here for others to consult and enjoy.

 

Whatever Montblanc 146 pens you use, I hope that they're reliable daily writers.

 

With Appreciation,

 

Tom K.



#5 Fountainpencrazy

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 22:09

Very neat. Thanks for sharing.



#6 carlos.q

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 22:38

Bravo! :thumbup:

#7 siamackz

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 00:50

Few thoughts for this long due post that I hope will be pinned at some point :)

1. I understand that the earliest model in 49/50 had a clip that was just a little different. The top of the clip joins the finial. I think Michael R has a pic he had shared with me on one of my posts a while ago but I cannot locate it
2. When you say flat feed do you mean ski slope because there were other earlier feeds that were completely flat without the two lines (ski slopes)
3. You note the earlier barrels are one piece. Do you mean the section does not separate (because it does on my celluloid 146)

If you need pics to add to the chart then just ask - I am sure many of us will contribute to make this dating document as rich as possible.

Thanks for the wonderful effort!

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#8 sanfong

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:10

Yeah finally Le Grand has its own!!  :lol:



#9 neugeekig

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:00

Very interesting.

I've been working on something similar but it is far from finished yet ;-)

So I can appreciate all the work and efforts.

One topic which always gets me thinking is the transitional 146 with the blue ink window.


I'm really looking forward what others will come up with.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

Dear Michael,

thank you very much for your compliment.  :blush:   I really appreciated your thread on the transitional models - you also did put a lot of effort into this! (and I just saw, the pictures are back)

Yes, you are right, the whole transition model-area isn't well covered by my chart yet, cause, to be honest, the whole period is complicating enough itself. even with your thread, I wasn't able to come up with a consistent timeline :).
 

But maybe we can work it our together here in the forum ...

 

Cheers Stefan



#10 neugeekig

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 09:20

Few thoughts for this long due post that I hope will be pinned at some point :)

1. I understand that the earliest model in 49/50 had a clip that was just a little different. The top of the clip joins the finial. I think Michael R has a pic he had shared with me on one of my posts a while ago but I cannot locate it
2. When you say flat feed do you mean ski slope because there were other earlier feeds that were completely flat without the two lines (ski slopes)
3. You note the earlier barrels are one piece. Do you mean the section does not separate (because it does on my celluloid 146)

If you need pics to add to the chart then just ask - I am sure many of us will contribute to make this dating document as rich as possible.

Thanks for the wonderful effort!

 

Dear siamackz,
thank you four your compliment and contribution.
1. seeing this pic would be great, so I could adjust the table.
2. I mean ski slope. I updated the doc.
3. Yes, from what I read the celluloid 146 should not have a separating section. Interesting ...

And if anybody wants to add pictures to this therad, you are all invited :)

cheers Stefan



#11 siamackz

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 14:52

 

Dear siamackz,
thank you four your compliment and contribution.
1. seeing this pic would be great, so I could adjust the table.
2. I mean ski slope. I updated the doc.
3. Yes, from what I read the celluloid 146 should not have a separating section. Interesting ...

And if anybody wants to add pictures to this therad, you are all invited :)

cheers Stefan

Hey Stefan,

 

1. Pic of the clip - I can't find it :(

2. Great!

3. It definitely separates from the section. You can read about my difficult journey trying to separate it :) http://www.fountainp...50s-my-journey/

 

Also, you must have already seen this post If you haven't its a great resource to help with your chart http://www.fountainp...l/#entry2005261


My Vintage Montblanc Website--> link

My Instagram account --> link


#12 siamackz

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 14:53

Very interesting.

I've been working on something similar but it is far from finished yet ;-)

So I can appreciate all the work and efforts.

One topic which always gets me thinking is the transitional 146 with the blue ink window.

I suspect that it was made in the 60s already as it shows many features which other models from the 60s share.

Also the first regular production 146 (monotone nib and grey ink window) is already shown in the a 1973 catalog/price list.


All celluloid pens and earlier modern pens (> 1970s) I've handled had a two piece barrel construction (section and barrel on celluloid models; section, barrel and collar on early resin models). I need to check on current models and on the transitional models. They may show a different construction.

Also very early resin pens (grey ink window) with 14C (not 14K!) monotone nibs are missing in the chart. Those pens hat a more straight collar as well (not as angled as on later models).

I'm really looking forward what others will come up with.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

Michael, do you have a pic of the early type clip that goes into a sort of hole into the cap crown? 


My Vintage Montblanc Website--> link

My Instagram account --> link


#13 Michael R.

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 18:00

Not at the moment ;-)

Just arrived in the country of Herbin and Waterman for vacation but will be glad to help out with a few pictures as soon as I‘m back.

I‘m sure we can work out a very comprehensive chart together :-)

Cheers

Michael

#14 siamackz

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 18:07

Not at the moment ;-)

Just arrived in the country of Herbin and Waterman for vacation but will be glad to help out with a few pictures as soon as Im back.

Im sure we can work out a very comprehensive chart together :-)

Cheers

Michael

Enjoy France! Be sure to enjoy a savoury crepe or galette at Au Ptit Grec in Rue Mouffetard 👍

My Vintage Montblanc Website--> link

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#15 jskywalker

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 11:18

This is a great effort. Thanks !

 

I have a 146 with "Germany" right at the center back and serial no. at the side.

 

Does anyone know what's the year of this pen ?



#16 Boltonator

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 06:05

As a user of two split ebonite 146es, I appreciate the time you have taken to chronicle the Montblanc Meisterstuck No.146.

My addition or correction to your spreadsheet is that the split ebonite feed had different section feed collars depending on year of manufacture. I can't supply exact dates but the flared feed collar seen on modern pens appears on some split ebonite feed pens (possibly in the late 80s-1990) and one of my pens has the flared section collar.

I have attached an image. The lighting is poor but it should show the variation on the feed collars.

Attached Images

  • 20180724_175512.jpg

Edited by Boltonator, 24 July 2018 - 06:06.

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#17 siamackz

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 03:20

Heres a little something to add to your table that is missing. I noticed that you are yet to put a measure of a closed 146 from the 50s, so I measured mine and its approx. 134mm capped

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#18 twokay

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 10:03

Not only the 149 underwent various changes over time ...

 

Since the 146 was first produced in 1950, it changed a lot and even went out of production for a decade.

 

About a year ago, when I wanted to date the used 146s I was buying, I started this spreadsheet.

And as I learned a lot in this forum, I'm happy to share the gathered information -  as suggested by siamackz, carlos.q and sanfong, here is the the extra thread on it  :)

 
shared google doc - always up to date: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

If you find any mistake or have new information, please share. I'll try to keep this doc updated.

 

cheers!

Stefan

 

 

PS: thanks to DKbRS for the inspiration with his dating 149s thread & chart

First of all, thank you for sharing such information.

 

I am not sure if it's okay to ask a question, but here's my question.

 

I am trying to buy vintage 146 (unused)

 

The seller claims it's from the 80s. However, it has two-tone nib with split ebonite feed and gray clear ink window, along with W.Germany and serial number inscribed into the clip.

 

Am I looking at a transitional period Legrand? (perhaps early 1990s?)

 

It would be great if I could borrow your expertise on the matter :)

 

Thank you.

 

Here's some pictures of the pen I am talking about.

Attached Images

  • ebonite feed.jpg
  • nib.jpg
  • ink window.jpg
  • west germany.jpg
  • seiral number.jpg

Edited by twokay, 29 July 2018 - 10:08.


#19 JasonF2

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Posted 30 September 2018 - 19:49

This is a great resource, thanks for putting this together and making it public! One thing that could be added is the 146R (Burgundy) years of production. Anyone know which years it was made specifically?



#20 Claud

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 11:54

Thank you for the information. I dearly love my two early 50s celluloid 146s and my 75th Anniversary .








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