Mb 13X Variants

[siamackz]

Hello lucky owners of the 13x series! I have a few questions for you. I have noticed quite a bit of variation in design characteristics on the 13x and I am not sure which ones are correct and which ones are frankenpens. Can you help?

1. Blindcap - I have seen some with the two-piece blind cap design where you can easily dismantle the piston by turning a second threaded component at the end of the barrel (Do you know what I mean). But Ive also seen variants without this second component. Are both correct?
2. Ink windows - long, medium, short. I am assuming all three were made at diffferent points in time.
3. Nibs - 14c and steel were both available, depending on the time. But were there further variants in the gold or just the 2-tone 14c?
4. Feed - flat or ski slope. Both, right? Or were there other variants that were period correct?
5. Cap rings - I have seen some with the cap ring like the 234 1/2 Luxury version (the single thick band). And then some with the three bands like the 149 silver rings. Are both correct?
6. Cap crown - I have seen high tops and short tops. But they all should have engraved Meisterstück correct?
7. Clip - I love the tie clip but Ive seen quite a few with the papyrus clip (is that what its called?). Are both correct? When did the switch happen?

8. Sizes - I know of the 132, 134, 136, 138, 139. Anything I am missing?

I could not find a resource that compares the variants and so I thought Id ask you guys that actually have the pens.

Thanks!

Edited June 23, 2018 by siamackz

[carlos.q]

You can start your search here:

http://fountainpen.de/old40.htm

[niksch]

Ref #1. No. Those are 3xx variants.

Ref #2. Yes, various points in time.

Ref #3. Generally 14c, with steel during the war. On 138 nibs there is Palladium plating.

Ref #4. Ski slope. I don't understand what you mean by flat feed for this era.

Ref #5. Only Luxury 234s had the 13x cap ring designation.

Ref #6. I've seen both.

Ref #7. Yes, and unknown.

[niksch]

You can start your search here:

http://fountainpen.de/old40.htm

 

Carlos, on a personal note. I hope you are ready for the new hurricane season. My best wishes, my FPN friend.

[zaddick]

Ref #1. No. Those are 3xx variants.

Ref #2. Yes, various points in time.

Ref #3. Generally 14c, with steel during the war. On 138 nibs there is Palladium plating.

Ref #4. Ski slope. I don't understand what you mean by flat feed for this era.

Ref #5. Only Luxury 234s had the 13x cap ring designation.

Ref #6. I've seen both.

Ref #7. Yes, and unknown.

A little adjustment to point 3. In 1938 gold use was restricted to government needs in Germany so MB switched to Palladium nibs (marked with a fancy P instead of the gold markings). The nibs were specially treated to give the two tone appearance of the older gold nibs (which were yellow gold with some rhodium or other white metal plating). If you polish a palladium nib you will bring it back to a white metal. The nibs are just palladium not coated. Then after a year or so, maybe less, MB was required to switch to steel nibs until after WWII. These look similar to the other nibs but are not marked as gold or palladium which is the easiest way for me to spot them in photos.

[zaddick]

Of the 13X pens, only the 139 had the thick gold band surrounded by the two thin silver bands. This was also the case on the 129 predecessor and the 149 celluloid replacement.

[zaddick]

OP- check out this awesome post from Pavoni for lots of good info

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/246059-an-enthusiasts-collection--part-2/page-1

[siamackz]

OP- check out this awesome post from Pavoni for lots of good info

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/246059-an-enthusiasts-collection--part-2/page-1

Thanks for reminding me about this post. I return to it every now and then. But didn't think of using it to answer my questions. I am replying to some of my own questions as an update based on this article. In case anyone wants to add even further then great!

[siamackz]

Ref #1. No. Those are 3xx variants.

Ref #2. Yes, various points in time.

Ref #3. Generally 14c, with steel during the war. On 138 nibs there is Palladium plating.

Ref #4. Ski slope. I don't understand what you mean by flat feed for this era.

Ref #5. Only Luxury 234s had the 13x cap ring designation.

Ref #6. I've seen both.

Ref #7. Yes, and unknown.

Ref # 1, Just realized that all have the two threaded part thing!

 

Ref# 4 - were there no 13x that had the flat feed like this

 

Thanks!

Edited June 23, 2018 by siamackz

[siamackz]

OK, so update based on replies thus far:

 

1. Blindcap:

a. There is only the two-piece blind cap design where you can easily dismantle the piston by turning a second threaded component at the end of the barrel.

 

2. Ink windows:

a. long - discontinued post 1943?

b. medium (some portion still seen when capped)

c. short (ink window not visible when capped)

 

3. Nibs:

a. 14c, two tone

b. Steel

c. Palladium - In 1938 gold use was restricted to government needs in Germany so MB switched to Palladium nibs (marked with a fancy P instead of the gold markings). The nibs were specially treated to give the two tone appearance of the older gold nibs (which were yellow gold with some rhodium or other white metal plating). If you polish a palladium nib you will bring it back to a white metal. The nibs are just palladium not coated. Then after a year or so, maybe less, MB was required to switch to steel nibs until after WWII. These look similar to the other nibs but are not marked as gold or palladium.

d. Palladium plated - some138 nibs have Palladium plating?

e.....

 

4. Feed:

a. Ski slope

b. flat

c...

 

5. Cap rings:

a. Single thick cap band (like the 234 1/2 Luxury version)

b. Single flat cap band

c. two silver bands and centre band only on 139, like the 149 silver rings

d. two gold bands and centre band like celluloid 146

e. two gold bands and centre band but without any engraving

f. No bands, just engraving of two lines and "Meisturstuck" in the centre - war time

g...

 

6. Cap crown:

a. high tops

b. short tops

c. really short tops (1mm on export models like Italy, or for war time uniform?)

d...

 

7. Clips:

a. fluted/papyrus clip

b. tie clip

c. waterfall/prismatic clip

d. teardrop clip (plain)

e. teardrop clip w/montblanc engraved

f. typical third/tier clip

g...

 

8. Sizes:

132

134

136

138

139

K imprint after the model number (not nib size) means short?

L imprint before model number means ___?

 

9. Imprints:

a. Cap crown or cap top had Meisterstück, not both?

b. After centre gold band/ring on cap had Meisterstück imprint then neither the cap crown nor cap wore an imprint anymore?

DRP imprint on barrel stoppped post WWII?

c...

 

References - Pics from fontainpen.de; pics from perboard.de; pics from Pavoni's FPN article "An Enthusiasts Collection-Part 2"; pics from Michael Rs blog website; and FPN members' responses to this post denoted by a question mark at the end of the point because I can't seem to verify the accuracy of those facts against a physical pen/pic/official document.

Edited June 23, 2018 by siamackz

[Michael R.]

Sizes: There also is a short „132 K“.

 

Cap rings: flat single cap bands are possible also.

 

Engravings: on cap, barrel, filling mechanism and filling knob did vary

 

Cap top: flat (just about 1 mm) on export models (e.g. Italy)

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Michael R.]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[siamackz]

Sizes: There also is a short 132 K.

 

Cap rings: flat single cap bands are possible also.

 

Engravings: on cap, barrel, filling mechanism and filling knob did vary

 

Cap top: flat (just about 1 mm) on export models (e.g. Italy)

 

Cheers

 

Michael

Thank you, I am making edits regarding the clips based on your pics.

 

Questions:

1. Do you have pens that dont have the DRP.. number on the barrel intentionally (not overpolished and hence missing)

2. Do some caps not have the imprint of Montblanc/Meisterstück intentionally (not overpolished and hence missing)

3. Do some cap-tops not have the imprint of Meisterstück intentionally (not overpolished and hence missing)

4. Why does the last pic look like clip and cap ring are steel or palladium too? Is that just a filter or has the gold come off or was there a version all-palladium/steel?

5. Doesnt the K in 132 K just denote the keugel nib tip? Are you saying it denotes length?

 

Thanks Michael!

Edited June 23, 2018 by siamackz

[penparadise]

Good morning,

just read this thread and so far your questions got the right answers.

 

To your last 5 questions:

1. Yes, for example on the 13x (especially on the 139) which were produced after WW2 there was no DRP number engraved any more.

2. and 3. Normally there was only one engravement (or imprint) of "Meisterstück" on the pen - either on the cap top or on the cap itself but not on both parts. But in one year "Meisterstück" was engraved on both parts. But as soon as "Meisterstück" were engraved into the cap ring none other imprint on cap or cap top was used.

4. This must be just a reflection of light.

5. "K" can mean both things but it depends where it was imprinted. A "K" behind the model number means "kurz" which says short and "K" behind the nib size means "Kugel" which says the tip has a round corn.

Edited June 23, 2018 by penparadise

[penparadise]

... and the flat cap top wasn't made especially for the Italian or any export markets, it was made for carrying a pen in a (soldiers-)shirt which has a flap over the shirt pocket.

[siamackz]

Good morning,

just read this thread and so far your questions got the right answers.

 

To your last 5 questions:

1. Yes, for example on the 13x (especially on the 139) which were produced after WW2 there was no DRP number engraved any more.

2. and 3. Normally there was only one engravement (or imprint) of "Meisterstück" on the pen - either on the cap top or on the cap itself but not on both parts. But in one year "Meisterstück" was engraved on both parts. But as soon as "Meisterstück" were engraved into the cap ring none other imprint on cap or cap top was used.

4. This must be just a reflection of light.

5. "K" can mean both things but it depends where it was imprinted. A "K" behind the model number means "kurz" which says short and "K" behind the nib size means "Kugel" which says the tip has a round corn.

Thank you good sir!

About the K. Does the L before the 139 on some pens mean long to denote the size of the pen or ink window (or neither)?

[penparadise]

Does the L before the 139 on some pens mean long to denote the size of the pen or ink window (or neither)?

 

No, the "L" has nothing to do with the size of the ink view.

[siamackz]

 

No, the "L" has nothing to do with the size of the ink view.

Anyone know what the L stands for?

[Michael R.]

I think the „L“ was used for „Luxus“ (=luxury) on some of the c. 1930s top models and variations.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[siamackz]

I think the „L“ was used for „Luxus“ (=luxury) on some of the c. 1930s top models and variations.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

Thanks!