Vintage Fountain Pens Without Latex Sacs?

[CoolBreeze]

I am relatively new to fountain pens and part of the draw for me is that it reminds me of a more romantic time period of the olden days. In the world of vintage pens or older pens, are there any fountain pens that are considered iconic or really great that don't use latex sacs?

 

I am a big fan of the c/c system for ease of use (followed by piston or vac-like systems like on the pilot 823). When did fountain pens start using c/c anyway?

 

Eta - I noticed a lot of vintage pens tend to be slim so extra points if it is of a more modern girth in the section!

Edited June 22, 2018 by CoolBreeze

[Kodiac136]

There are definitely vintage pens that don't use any type of sack. Sheaffers using the vac fill system come to mind. Parker 61s use some kind capillary system that doesn't use a sack as far as I know. I can't think of any others, but they are definitely out there. I'm not sure when they began using C/C, but honestly, you should give the sacks a chance. There are some incredible vintage pens that use sacks and they really aren't that difficult to maintain.

[Argee]

the Waterman C/F from 1953 is the first mainstream modern cartridge pen, uses increasingly hard to get proprietary cartridges. The Conklin Nozac from the 1930s are American made piston pens, I've got one I really like.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Argee

[JulieParadise]

Well, maybe not iconic, but: How about safety pens?

[ENewton]

A Parker 51 aerometric is an iconic pen that does not have a latex sac. It has a vinyl sac.

 

A Parker 45 is a cartridge/converter, but you might find it too slender.

 

If something newer (1980s-90s) is an option, consider a Waterman Man 100. It is a cartridge converter with more girth but quite a bit heavier than your Pilot.

 

Note that as long as you buy your pen from someone reputable, there is no reason to shy away from a pen with a sac. I have several pens with sacs and don't find them any more trouble than my cartridge converters. Then again, I use old-fashioned inks, as opposed to glittery inks or inks that glow in the dark, for example.

[Jerome Tarshis]

Not to labor the obvious, but: Piston-filling pens don't have a latex sack. You could buy thousands of piston-fillers with not a single latex sac. A whole world lies before you. It is also true, narrowing things down considerably, that Parker's so-called Aerometric fillers didn't use a latex sac.

 

Those include the Parker 51 Aero, which some of us own in respectable numbers, but also the Super 21 in the United States and the UK Aero Duofolds and 17s. I've owned some of those, and still own four. The sacs seem to last forever. Going on seventy years, anyway.

[peterg]

Post or syringe pens and eye dropper pens from the turn of the last century. The Onoto plunger pen is very iconic and there is a whole raft of German piston pens, most notably the Pelikan 100. Apart from the eye dropper they all used cork seals, but often they are replaced with modern materials.

[Freddy]

C'mon ev'rybody's talkin' about.......Hit it...

 

All We Are Saying Is.....Give Sacs A Chance.....

 

Fred

Hear the music Ono/Lennon in bed..........................

[Bo Bo Olson]

Once a rubber sac lasted 30-40 years. Now with luck 10....but are easy to redo once you've done one.

You have to stay away from supersaturated inks....many very reputable repairmen say they eat a rubber sac in weeks to months. Those inks eat rubber sacs.

There's some 50-60 safe inks to use with rubber sacs. Many are two toned shading inks, instead of vivid boring supersaturated ones.

 

For normal working folks and their kids...the P-45 was the first Cartridge pen.....and Cartridges then and now are too dammed expensive to use with out needle refilling them. Converters came in very much later....and are affordable.

 

 

When I bought my P-75 in @ 1970, I knew how to squeeze fill it so tossed the box......it wasn't until some 40 years later that I found out there had been a couple cartridges in the bottom of the box.....and it will take a converter....so is a triple threat.

I'd not bought the pen....had it been a pure cartridge pen..........even if it was super duper expensive $22 silver dollars..........when a Snorkel cost $12-14.

 

IMO because of the expense, cartridges alone were almost responsible for the death of Fountain pens. They did almost die out.

I did need a life; a dime coke, a big five cent Snickers or Topps baseball card pack or #1 Spidie for 15 cents....and cartridges would prevent even that, they were so expensive. Then and now, $$$$$$$

 

Posted, the P-75 has great balance , and for a metal pen is light.....not as light as aluminum, but much lighter than brass....or the balance makes it feel so.

 

A lever pen is the fastest loading of all pens......and if you stay away from supersaturated ink, takes no longer than a Pelikan to clean out.

Do go over to the Esterbrook sub section.....every one needs an beautiful solid as a tank Esterbrook or two...........or 8.

Take a while deciding which colors you like.

I once had 5 of the 8 grays....4 blues, 2 of the 3 greens. All I have left is a DJ Copper and a '40's blue flat bottomed SJ. When I say 'Blue' I'm not talking boring blue but blue with patterns. Take a look see.

 

The high price of cartridges drove me as a school kid into ball points.....there were times with luck you could get a box of ten ball point refills for a dime.

Both cartridge and Parker Jotter refills was too expensive for a working man's kid.

 

Cartridges are $$$$$$$ Always have been. Look to get away from them. A converter at least gives you a cheaper ink refill and many more colors and hues to chose from.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Ron Z]

I am partial to the Sheaffer plunger fillers. The post war Valiant and Sentinel Deluxe pens hold a lot of ink, fill in one stroke, and when restored with the right materials should last a long time without repair. Many of us use the high grade buna-N rubber for the head gaskets, and Viton 0-rings for the packing units, both of which are chemical and wear resistant.

 

The Parker 51 was the best selling pen of all time. The "plyglass" sac in the aerometric 51 is PVC, which is resistant to most inks. The Parker VP and 65 used the funky filler, but the sac in it is PVC, and replacement/reproduction front ends are available if you find a pen with a damaged one, or without one.

[praxim]

Piston fillers started with Pelikan in 1929 I think. There are many excellent German and Italian pens in particular using piston mechanisms from the 1930s on. Many are still well known brands like Pelikan, Montblanc, Aurora, others interesting but regrettably dead.

 

Plunge fillers include Onotos from 1905 until the mid-1950s. They too are relatively easy to find, and offer a wide variety of sizes, shapes, and [excellent] nibs.

 

Depending on your skills or acquaintance with a good repair person, you may prefer to buy any of the above already restored.

 

A C/C is simply a modular piston system. If you want one of them in an older pen then I support the recommendation for Waterman Man 100 as a great option, or other Waterman or S T Dupont pens post 1970, or other brands you can find here with a bit of searching.

 

I started on vintage with lever fillers. I have since migrated to specialising in plunge and piston types, although I will not be selling my vintage Watermans any time soon.

 

edit:omission

Edited June 23, 2018 by praxim

[pajaro]

I don't care much for latex sacs, because of the lifespan of them. What you are asking for is basically a modern pen. I think the older pens are more interesting, but you don't have to own any. You could study pen history.

 

I have found many modern C/C pens to dry out after a couple of hours to overnight. There are workarounds, but I get tired of them. My first Parker 51 with the PVC sac has worked without fail since 1970. No resacs.

[CoolBreeze]

Thanks everyone for the feedback and recommendations so far. It is giving a great start to the hunt for one that I am interested in. For everyone's convenience (especially mine), I thought I might compile everyone's recommendations into one post. I hope it is helpful. I do realize I might have to just stop caring about latex to get into some of the really cool vintage pens but this is a great start to dipping my proverbial toes into the water. Thank you again!

• Sheaffers w/vac fill system
• Parker 61s - capillary system
• Waterman C/F from 1953 first modern cartridge pen, uses increasingly hard to get proprietary cartridges.
• Conklin Nozac (1930s) - American made piston pens
• Safety Pens
• Parker 51 aerometric - vinyl sac(not latex) - Seems very popular
• Parker 45 - c/c (might be too slender but first c/c for normal working folks)
• Waterman 100 (80s/90s - not a problems for me!)
• Parker Super 21
• Parker UK Aero Duofolds and 17s
• Onoto plunger pen (1905 to mid 1950s)
• Pelikan 100 (and other german pistol fillers)
• Parker 75 (has great balance too!)
• Sheaffer plunger fillers (particularly the post war Valiant and Sentinel Deluxe)
• Parker VP and 65 (also non-latex pvc sac)
• many German and Italian piston mechanisms from the 1930s including Pelikan, Montblanc, Aurora, etc)
• ST Dupont (post 1970s are c/c) - I also absolutely love this brand and my current Duponts!

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by CoolBreeze

[peterg]

'Parker UK Aero Duofolds and 17s'

not forgetting the Victory Mk V either (they can be Danish too).

[Ron Z]

There is always the option of having a silicone or PVC (while the supply lasts) installed in a sac pen. The only caveat is that if you have a silicone sac in, you should store the pen nib up to avoid oozing caused by gas permeability. They really are impervious to about anything. I have them, and would install them if requested.

[max dog]

I am relatively new to fountain pens and part of the draw for me is that it reminds me of a more romantic time period of the olden days. In the world of vintage pens or older pens, are there any fountain pens that are considered iconic or really great that don't use latex sacs?

 

I am a big fan of the c/c system for ease of use (followed by piston or vac-like systems like on the pilot 823). When did fountain pens start using c/c anyway?

 

Eta - I noticed a lot of vintage pens tend to be slim so extra points if it is of a more modern girth in the section!

If its reliability you are after, answer is Parker 51 aerometric. The pli-glass sacs seem to last forever as many here can attest to with some of them going on 60+ years now with no sign of letting up. C/C, pistons, vacs etc all wear out due to friction. P51 are possibly the best engineered pens ever, and they are very iconic too.

[pajaro]

I bought some sacs for Parker 51. I believe these to be PVC. I used one to resac an Esterbrook M2. Seems to fit and fills perfectly. I used the others in other pens that had had latex sacs. Seem to work, secured by shellac.

[Ron Z]

The 51 sacs that are on the market are PVC, but are a #15 sac. The ridges inside make it a little stiff for some lever fill pens.

[sandy101]

There's also the option of vintage MB Piston fillers such as the MB254.

 

There's a range of models made in the 50's - no sac and nice writers to boot.

 

Will also give you the girth you seek.

[AAAndrew]

Y'all a bunch 'a sacs maniacs!

 

One thing to consider going from a C/C to say, a piston filler is that your ink will last a whole lot longer with an old piston fill pen, so if you like to change inks often, you may not be fond of the pens with lots of carrying capacity.