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Lamy 2000 Ef - Nib Grind To Oblique / Stub

lamy2000 stub oblique

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#1 TheLostOne

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 08:54

I am considering getting Lamy 2000 EF from "nibsmith" and getting it ground to left foot oblique in stub.

Any idea what kind of line width and variation it would result in?

My intention is to achieve a fine stub, similar to the 'Fine' stub of Pilot Plumix / Pluminix pen, which is quite fine, probably 0.5mm. It is fine enough for normal daily use and faster writing but still gives a character to the writing.



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#2 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 09:40

IMO, OEF is too thin to show much of anything. Especially in a nail, if that is what the 2000 is.

 

An OF being wider would show more pattern.....don't expect more than a tiny hint even at OF, at max with a nail....or even regular flex.

 

IMO an oblique that is not vintage '50-70 German semi-flex is worthless as is.

 

Those nibs are @ 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

I had thought I had ordered a Geha 790 OEF (rare all OEF from then is rare), but someone long ago had changed the nib to EF (barrel marked...not nib).....but it was a Maxi, so I was happy with that.

Pondering that maxi-semi-flex EF width and my maxi-semi-flex Pelikan 400NN OF.....decided not to 'waste' money chasing an OEF. The pattern would not have been wide enough to be of use to my eyes.

In a tiny script, any pattern  if any will be next to lost.

 

Modern Oblique has so little pattern compared to the real thing, German vintage  semi-flex oblique, it's not even funny. I had a nail 18K Lamy Persona OB....no line variation. A Lamy 27 nail OM, no line variation.

 

I've tried modern obliques from the regular flex 200's  when trans-mailing and have a '85-90 W.Germany 200 OM, with the tad more springy nib than the '90-97 ones. No cigar.

I have just gotten a regular flex....1005 and pre'97 600 both with OBB nibs. There is some line variation, but little compared to my '50-70 OBB or OB semi-flex nibs.

If there is only little to some at OBB, I can't see OEF having any readable line variation.

 

But again I am more than spoiled with semi-flex obliques.

 

It's hard enough from my reading to find the sweet spot on a 2000 as is....and then to have to hunt to find the proper angle of the oblique will be a pain....I'd bet.

 

A Geha 790 is the Best Buy in semi-flex on German Ebay. If you don't hit the "Buy Now Idiot" button, can be had for under E60....seen one go in the past auctions for the old price of E40.

Look for an OF......as I said, OEF is/was rare.

 

These are semi-flex and can be had in Obliques. (Could be you could find a OEF....but would be rare....the OF is a nice width....1/2 a width narrower than modern.....would be near Japanese F...perhaps the fatter Sailor width.) A Pelikan 140 can be had for E90-100, a '50's 400/400nn for E100-120........if you Hunt. There are the 'Buy Now Idiot' button for near twice as much.

 

In you are after a pattern.....semi-flex is best.

I feel OEF to be too narrow to leave much of a pattern especially in a semi-nail or regular flex of the 2000....though I've heard others say it's a nail nib.

I first saw a 2000 in '67...didn't like it then.

Any time I went hunting for someones grandfather's 2000 on German Ebay.....never found any. :(

So never got one.

So it is a well liked pen by the inheritors.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#3 TheLostOne

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 13:08

I'm not looking for significant line variation. Just something like a 0.5mm stub.



#4 AL01

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 14:05

 I'd say stick with an OF.

 

 BUT, if you want to take a little risk, then go with an OEF.

 

 If you end up with an OEF, you really have a one of a kind pen.

 

 I have never heard of an OEF before...



#5 Ron Z

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 14:09

With a line width that fine it is very difficult if not impossible to get any line variation without also ending up with a very toothy nib, and line variation is the whole point of an oblique, or stub, or italic nib.  When grinding a nib you always end up with something that is finder than the width which you started. 


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#6 TheLostOne

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 09:44

... When grinding a nib you always end up with something that is finder than the width which you started. 

 

Oh. I thought it'd get slightly thicker since they'd be flattening the round tip a little. And considering Lamy 2000s run a little broader than normal sizes, OEF of Lamy 2000 would give a 0.5-0.6 mm type stub.



#7 bigt

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 12:50

I would suggest that it would be worthwhile to discuss your requirements with the nib
expert you have chosen to do your modification- they would probably be best to advise you
as to the best nib donor size to achieve your goal.
Tony

#8 Randal6393

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 15:17

To get a fine italic with any variation would result in a toothy nib -- more of a cursive italic than a stub. But I have a Pilot Prera that started out as a <CM> nib -- very similar to a Pilot Plumix nib. Also have a Lamy 2000 that started out as a Broad and was converted to an Italic Fine -- about a 1.1 mm stroke. Found the main difference between a Lamy and a Pilot is the rate of ink flow. Never could get the ink flow in the Lamy slow enough to write a good italic line. Well, I finally did by using an iron-gall ink (R & K Salix). So it can be done. But with that EF? Definitely confer with a good (maybe great) nibmeister on that one.

 

Enjoy,


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#9 Karmachanic

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 16:37

With a line width that fine it is very difficult if not impossible to get any line variation without also ending up with a very toothy nib, and line variation is the whole point of an oblique, or stub, or italic nib.  When grinding a nib you always end up with something that is finder than the width which you started. 

 

End of story.


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#10 pajaro

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 16:42

I have two Lamy 2000 extra fines, one wet and one dry.  I cannot imagine getting any visible line variation from these unless you have super eyesight.  REALLY super eyesight.  I have a Parker Sonnet fine italic, with "S" on the feed, and it looks to me like an extra fine round nib.  Of course I have macular degeneration and use a magnifying glass a lot. 

 

I have long considered having a BB nib reground to cursive italic.  The best to be hoped for is a broad italic, and it could result in a medium italic.  You do lose at least a nib size in these grinds.  EF to a ??  I would invest in a microscope with a big screen viewer.  On the fine italic of the Sonnet, it does take magnification to see any line variation.  Then again, I do have macular degeneration.  Fortunately an eye doctor stopped it.


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#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 18:40

As said """REALLY super eyesight. """ And are more than proud that you can write tiny....or is that only write tiny? :P

 

It's with an Euro F, that one gets shading ...again unless you have REALLY super eyesight. 

 

You are condemned to write with vivid monotone supersaturated boring ink, only.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#12 jmccarty3

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 04:05

Not exactly on topic, but I recently bought a Lamy 2k with a factory OM nib. First of all, the nib is quite wet. Second, the angle of the oblique cut (the "obliqueness" or the "obliquity") is steeper than most oblique nibs I have seen, certainly > 15˚, maybe even 20˚. Third, in spite of all that the nib does not have a limited "sweet spot," as 2k nibs are famous for, and fourth, I don't get that much line variation out of the nib. Perhaps I need a dryer ink. OTOH, the pen is a very smooth and pleasant writer, and that makes up quite a lot for all of the above. If I were ordering again, I probably would get a fine.


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#13 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 30 December 2018 - 13:35

'50-70 is the era of semi-flex stub nibs, and that goes for oblique also.

 

I find most of that era's obliques to be 15 degree,but have in OBB, OBB, OB, OM & OF in rarer 30 degree grinds.

I thought the 15 degree as normal.....my W.Germany 200 OM is 15 degree...a number of 200 oblique nibs I trans-mailed to a passed pal in England were 15 degree. I'd never noticed less than @ 15 degree grind. (They also didn't do much compared to my vintage ones. The W.Germany 200's springy nib is that slight tad more springy than the '90-97 regular flex nibs.....but was not quite enough to make the oblique do it's job.............give good line variation. I am spoiled by my vintage nibs.....a hair of line variation is not enough of the real thing.)

 

I've never run across any info on the 30 degree grind. I am sure my Pelikan 500**** OBBB maxi-semi-flex 30 degree grind is a factory grind. The others I don't know. There was a time when the fabled 'Corner Pen Shoppe' had pen technicians as sales personal. So have often wondered if as someone was trying out the nib, if the salesman didn't ask, "Dou you want a bit more Oblique?" Then went into the back room and ground it from 15 to 30 degree.

I've not run into any 20-22 degree grinds....yet.

 

***** The 500 is a pure signature pen with that nib. It takes up 2/3rds-3/4ths of a page with a legal signature. So being a Flagship would have been had the extra grind done in the factory. IMO. But as I say, I can't find any info on the 30 degree grinds.

 

I had a Lamy Persona 18K OB nail, with no line variation. Same with a Lamy 27 OM, nail. Sold the latter. Had the Persona made into a CI by PB. :thumbup:

My W.Germany OM,was a disappointment. It was in a lot at a live auction, and I had hopes for it.

I really had to ham fist the nib to get any line variation. 

My 381 OB has some but not enough to brag, in fact it took the longest time to find out it was an OB instead of just being a regular flex B.....looked hard at it, it's almost a stub...so I wonder is it worth stubbing it? It's only regular flex.....sigh. & I have enough real obliques from the 50-70 era.

Being retired there is $ and there is $$$. So having alternatives, will live with it.

 

I could stub it my self....but have no incentive to screw up a nib someone might want to buy as original....come the day...which is coming. One can get a little bit more money for a nib stubbed by Richard, PB or Francis than by me.

I have three vintage OB's in semi &or maxi in 15 & 30 degree grinds. I'm good to go.

 

 

Modern '82-97, or 98-now obliques could be stubbed and give some pattern or some more pattern.....buying a vintage stubbed semi-flex oblique is cheaper and will always be better.

 

Lots of folks are left eye dominant and cant their nibs so they can see the top of the nib. Left handers also...........those are folks that can use a oblique to see the top of the nib. But compared to the Vintage nibs, regular flex and semi-nail or nail, just have too little line variation. (Sadly many left handers can't use semi-flex, semi-nail and nail do them well.)

 

If one is use to no line variation......fine, it is 'some' but non-oblique stubbed semi-flex will give flair line variation with out doing anything. Oblique from that era will give much more line variation.

 

16 from that era is enough for me (I have to admit the 30 degree grinds are all pure luck, in none were so advertised) .....I don't count the W.Germany 200 or the 381 as obliques in my total, in to me they are only 1/2 *ssed. Pale shadows of the real thing..........and they have lots more 'pattern' than my Lamy Nails, which had none.  Belief will move mountains or see line variation when there is little to none.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#14 jmccarty3

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 01:19

I believe the difficulty with my Lamy 2k OM nib is that it is too wet to show any line variation, in spite of the obvious oblique grind of the nib. The pen writes beautifully, but I will try a drier ink.


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#15 Karmachanic

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 08:42

I believe the difficulty with my Lamy 2k OM nib is that it is too wet to show any line variation, in spite of the obvious oblique grind of the nib. The pen writes beautifully, but I will try a drier ink.

 

This is the reason I have not purchased this pen. Perhaps it shows no variation because the tipping on underside of the nib is round? Please let me know. If that is the case it can easily be flattened.


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#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 13:21

I have heard some say the 2000 is a nail, others say it is softer than that....but it is still a hard nib (semi-nail?), so one can't expect much from an oblique. Not in regular flex either. Only semi&maxi stub obliges gives good line variation. (non-oblique semi&maxi gives nice line variation flair also)

 

 

It is not semi-flex, but semi-flex and is flair, not superflex.

Everything but a nail has some flex.....a semi-nail can be pressed to 2X.....so to some a semi-nail could be a flex pen. :rolleyes: :huh:

Some coming from nail has thought regular flex to be semi-flex because the nib had tine bend and spread. It isn't. Semi-flex is just easier to tine spread, but limited to 3 X..................it is a nib that gives flair...not a superflex.

 

 

'50-65-70, Pelikan 140-400, 400nn, Geha 760 or 790, or Osmia/Osmia-Faber-Castel, obliques are all stubs.

Most are semi-flex with an occasional maxi-semi-flex tossed in willi nelli, @ 1 in 5......outside the Osmia.

Osmia is semi-flex with a small diamond mostly with a number in it. If it has a big diamond and Supra or just has Supra it is maxi-semi-flex.

 

Geha 790 goes for @ E60....the medium small same size as a 140 Geha 760 for @ E80.

Pelikan 140 E90-100, 400-400nn E100-120.......Osmia has been going dirt cheap, ie E60 or close to that, I've noticed lately on German Ebay. (Paypal only....a bank wire transfer from outside the EU costs $35. Seller has to ship to the States, some won't.)

 

..........one can if one is foolish pay more........one can even buy the pen in the overly expensive States, than having the possibility to buy on much cheaper German Ebay...............if one stays away from the Buy Now Idiot button.

 

Hitting that on German Ebay will give you Stateside prices.............in that is where that price is aimed.

It helps to hunt....it's fun to hunt!!!! And a hell of a lot cheaper................but if you want it now..... :wacko: spend a fortune and buy in the States .

I do get a shock when I see a E110** pen go for $190-220 :yikes:  in the States.

**can be had for E90 with a tad of luck.....if one Hunts. :P


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 31 December 2018 - 13:38.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#17 Driften

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 20:02

I believe the difficulty with my Lamy 2k OM nib is that it is too wet to show any line variation, in spite of the obvious oblique grind of the nib. The pen writes beautifully, but I will try a drier ink.

 

 

I think part of the confusion here is not all Oblique nibs are stub/italic. Some are just round nibs meant to be held rotated. It's my understanding these Lamy nibs are round Oblique nibs. At least that is what people were saying when I had though about getting one a while back.



#18 jmccarty3

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 20:29

 

 

I think part of the confusion here is not all Oblique nibs are stub/italic. Some are just round nibs meant to be held rotated. It's my understanding these Lamy nibs are round Oblique nibs. At least that is what people were saying when I had though about getting one a while back.

 

That would explain it. The nib does not have a limited "sweet spot," as so many L2k nibs are said to have. I may have one of the nibmeisters work on it a bit.


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#19 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 20:36

My Lamy  Obliques, a 27 OM and a Persona OB were round American Bump Under nibs. No line variation at all. Made for those who cant their nib/rotate is as some call it. Good pens for left handers because of the nail nibs.

My Persona was made a CI by PB.

 

I think that comes from left eye dominance....in various degrees, in in every class in the Old Days there was at least one .....mostly a boy, who held his pen crooked....canted.

50+ years later I answered my slight question to why.

Being right eye dominate I never had that problem. My wife is left eye dominate and cant her pen to the max; when ever she uses a fountain pen. Ball point users don't have that problem.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#20 Honeybadgers

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:36

a stub would be possible (if not very dramatic) but an oblique is asking too much. there ain't enough tipping.


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