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Monteverde Monza


Charles Skinner

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Where can I buy a green Monteverde Monza pen as shown on page 21 of the latest Pen World? C. S.

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Where can I buy a green Monteverde Monza pen as shown on page 21 of the latest Pen World? C. S.

 

Perhaps by ordering a Jinhao 992 from one of the many places that sell them, sometimes in packs of six to 15 pens, which include green ones.

 

I have the Jinhao 992, and I've seen some on-line vendors selling the Monteverde Monza for much more that the 992 goes for. From examination of the photographs of the Monza I really do wonder if they're the exactly same fountain pen. And when I say "exactly" I don't mean very similar as in the resemblance of the Hero 616 to the Parker "51," I mean identical as in I suspect that the same dies are used at the same factory to make both the 992 and the Monza.

On a sacred quest for the perfect blue ink mixture!

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They're exactly the same pen,

 

That's my perception too. Have you been able to physically examine both a 992 and a Monza side by side? I have a 15 pack of 992s, but I've only seen, and been shocked by, the Monza is photographs, but they were very good photographs.

 

 

and the 992 pre-dates the Monza.

 

I have not done research into the timing of the appearance of these two fountain pens, but I had seen the 992 some time before the ad with the photographs of the Monza showed up.

 

Either way, it's an interesting phenomenon.

On a sacred quest for the perfect blue ink mixture!

ink stained wretch filling inkwell

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That's my perception too. Have you been able to physically examine both a 992 and a Monza side by side?

 

 

Yes. There is different lettering on the clip. The feed is transparent in the Monza. Monteverde supplies their own nib. Otherwise, the pens are completely identical and are clearly made with the same molds.

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The newer 992s now all come with transparent feeds, so the only real difference between the two pens is the nib. When I had a chance to examine a 992 and a Monza side by side the Jinhao's nib was better. The Monza also has the identical cracking issue around the barrel plug that's been reported on many 992s.

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The newer 992s now all come with transparent feeds, so the only real difference between the two pens is the nib. When I had a chance to examine a 992 and a Monza side by side the Jinhao's nib was better. The Monza also has the identical cracking issue around the barrel plug that's been reported on many 992s.

I agree the Jinhao nib is better...

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My Pen Wraps are for sale in my Etsy shop

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Look at this pen wrong and it will break. It isn't only the plug that breaks the barrel, the top dome of the cap can also break off. Two of my six did it. Never used, never inked, stored in a box, picked up, fell off. The plastic used is junk.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Look at this pen wrong and it will break. It isn't only the plug that breaks the barrel, the top dome of the cap can also break off. Two of my six did it. Never used, never inked, stored in a box, picked up, fell off. The plastic used is junk.

 

Ugh. Well, I hope I'm luckier with my Jinhao 992s. Interestingly, for the first time in my history of buying very inexpensive fountain pens, the 15 Jinhao 992s I bought tested 100% good. All 15 of the 992s worked, and worked for some weeks as I tested them. I've never had a 100% good rate before. The inexpensive fountain pens I've bought have tended to be a good buy if 70% of them are good.

 

I bought five Itoya Galaxy Saturn something or others years ago. They were pretty spotty writers. When I looked at them last year I found that the plastic for the caps was disintegrating and was all sticky. I expect those caps to be nothing but the metal parts and small pools of goo in a few more years. Oh well, I paid more for them than I did for the Jinhao 992s. One can but hope that things will work out with the 992s.

On a sacred quest for the perfect blue ink mixture!

ink stained wretch filling inkwell

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That's my perception too. Have you been able to physically examine both a 992 and a Monza side by side? I have a 15 pack of 992s, but I've only seen, and been shocked by, the Monza is photographs, but they were very good photographs.

 

 

I have not done research into the timing of the appearance of these two fountain pens, but I had seen the 992 some time before the ad with the photographs of the Monza showed up.

 

Either way, it's an interesting phenomenon.

Absolutely identical and every single part is interchangeable, down to the near-100% chance it will crack.

 

 

The monza is a nightmarish insult to the fountain pen community.

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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I bought a Monteverdi Monza about 6 weeks ago and I'm already ready to bin it. It leaked all the time; in my bag; while writing... a shame as I quite liked the nib. The top of the cap fell off so the clip has detached - I've no idea even how that happened. IMHO it's a cheap leaky pen that falls to bits within weeks of ownership! Wish I hadn't bothered!

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Yafa brands have an unfortunate tendency to purchase already established and well known Chinese pens, rebrand them, and sell them for a markup of several hundred percent.

 

See also Conklin Victory which is an already established Baoer something or other. They're not even made in a Chinese factory to specifications...they're just a rebranded already established Chinese pen. It's not even worth buying the Yafa version for the warranty because for the price of shipping it back for repair you could buy a brand new pen or three from the original manufacturer.

 

So yes, the Monteverde Monza and the Jinhao 992 are exactly the same pen. :-\

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  • 7 months later...

Absolutely identical and every single part is interchangeable, down to the near-100% chance it will crack.

 

The monza is a nightmarish insult to the fountain pen community.

I just don't get the hate towards the Monteverde Monza. I bought two of them with Fine nibs from Bureau Direct last May for the effective price of £11.21, which worked out to just under A$20 at the time. Even though I've only used them occasionally in nine months, they have been cleaned more times – only when I'm ready to change colours, and never pre-emptively for pen hygiene ahead of expected stretches of non-use – and had more changes of ink than most of my other sub-$30 pens.

 

So far:

  • neither of my Monza pens have given me nib trouble with scratchiness or hard starts;
  • neither of them have allowed ink in the converters to dry (or even lose half its volume) during sometimes weeks of sitting undisturbed in a pen cup crammed against other cheap pens that I treat relatively carelessly;
  • neither of them have developed cracks or any other structural defects that I could observe.
Having alternatives for buying 'better' or more astutely (including but not limited to buying a Jinhao 992 instead at a cheaper price) is no reason to hate the pen model, irrespective of whether the individual consumer made his/her own decision to buy the Monza, then hated the decision and felt stupid for not going with the alternative (which may or may not be known to him/her at the time). Why should the individual not take full responsibility and accept he/she has 'fooled' himself/herself, if the unpleasant feeling from the purchase cannot be shaken off, but pretend it is Monteverde's or Yafa's fault for not offering the model more cheaply (in line with the Jinhao 992?) or proactively advising that it is largely the same as a Jinhao 992?

 

I've just tested it against one of my new Sailor Profit Junior pens (with steel MF nibs), which I filled with the same ink as is in my blue Monza: Diamine Royal Blue. The two pens are almost identical in dimensions, shape and weight, and feel extremely in the hand. However,

  • the Monza has a inner cap that goes around the nib and the front end of the section neatly, while the Sailor Profit Junior does not;
  • the SPJ cost me approximately A$20 (sold at a discounted price by Amazon.co.jp) but does not include a converter, whereas the Monza included a converter and came in a more practical, reusable translucent plastic pen case;
  • the lines laid down by the Monza's nib are no wider than that coming out of the SPJ's MF nib, so that's pretty decent for a 'Western Fine' nib;
  • the Monza's nib is wetter (about which some here often make a big song and dance) out of the box than the SPJ, and given the fineness of the the lines it lays down are not compromised, I'd say the nib is superior;
  • the Monza's nib has more feedback than the SPJ but is certainly not scratchy, and so I actually prefer its contribution to the writing experience; and
  • cosmetically, I'd say the Monza looks better between of the wider cap ring, and the visible ridges inside the tail end of the translucent barrel that are more pronounced, than on the SPJ.
That said, I don't hate the SPJ, and I don't hate myself for buying (several colours of) it either, or try to frame it as Sailor's 'fault' that it isn't the same price or cheaper than the Monza.

 

fpn_1551590785__sailor_profit_junior_vs_

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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I like my Monza as well. Mine is the calligraphy set, so its one pen body and three nib units with converters. I make sure, if I take pens out of the house, they are nib up and in a slot or tech pocket inside a purse.

 

To the original question, penchalet.com and amazon have the Monza in jolly green.

Edited by Misfit
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I just don't get the hate towards the Monteverde Monza. I bought two of them with Fine nibs from Bureau Direct last May for the effective price of £11.21, which worked out to just under A$20 at the time. Even though I've only used them occasionally in nine months, they have been cleaned more times – only when I'm ready to change colours, and never pre-emptively for pen hygiene ahead of expected stretches of non-use – and had more changes of ink than most of my other sub-$30 pens.

 

So far:

  • neither of my Monza pens have given me nib trouble with scratchiness or hard starts;
  • neither of them have allowed ink in the converters to dry (or even lose half its volume) during sometimes weeks of sitting undisturbed in a pen cup crammed against other cheap pens that I treat relatively carelessly;
  • neither of them have developed cracks or any other structural defects that I could observe.
Having alternatives for buying 'better' or more astutely (including but not limited to buying a Jinhao 992 instead at a cheaper price) is no reason to hate the pen model, irrespective of whether the individual consumer made his/her own decision to buy the Monza, then hated the decision and felt stupid for not going with the alternative (which may or may not be known to him/her at the time). Why should the individual not take full responsibility and accept he/she has 'fooled' himself/herself, if the unpleasant feeling from the purchase cannot be shaken off, but pretend it is Monteverde's or Yafa's fault for not offering the model more cheaply (in line with the Jinhao 992?) or proactively advising that it is largely the same as a Jinhao 992?

 

I've just tested it against one of my new Sailor Profit Junior pens (with steel MF nibs), which I filled with the same ink as is in my blue Monza: Diamine Royal Blue. The two pens are almost identical in dimensions, shape and weight, and feel extremely in the hand. However,

  • the Monza has a inner cap that goes around the nib and the front end of the section neatly, while the Sailor Profit Junior does not;
  • the SPJ cost me approximately A$20 (sold at a discounted price by Amazon.co.jp) but does not include a converter, whereas the Monza included a converter and came in a more practical, reusable translucent plastic pen case;
  • the lines laid down by the Monza's nib are no wider than that coming out of the SPJ's MF nib, so that's pretty decent for a 'Western Fine' nib;
  • the Monza's nib is wetter (about which some here often make a big song and dance) out of the box than the SPJ, and given the fineness of the the lines it lays down are not compromised, I'd say the nib is superior;
  • the Monza's nib has more feedback than the SPJ but is certainly not scratchy, and so I actually prefer its contribution to the writing experience; and
  • cosmetically, I'd say the Monza looks better between of the wider cap ring, and the visible ridges inside the tail end of the translucent barrel that are more pronounced, than on the SPJ.
That said, I don't hate the SPJ, and I don't hate myself for buying (several colours of) it either, or try to frame it as Sailor's 'fault' that it isn't the same price or cheaper than the Monza.

 

fpn_1551590785__sailor_profit_junior_vs_

 

 

The hate is because they are quite literally jinhao 992's, gil. They are a $1.00 pen marked up two thousand percent. There is no improved QC, there is no design change.

 

There is a lot of love for the 992 despite its tendency to crack. Because it has a high quality nib and is a nice size. And it costs a dollar. Not twenty.

 

there is about an 80 or 90 percent chance a monza will crack. My green one did not, but my clear one did. and 9/10 of my 992's have cracked.

Edited by Honeybadgers

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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The hate is because they are quite literally jinhao 992's, gil. They are a $1.00 pen marked up two thousand percent. There is no improved QC, there is no design change.

 

Therein lies my issue with that 'hate'. If those consumers don't want to pay what they perceive as a 2000% mark-up, then don't buy the pen! If they bought the pen anyway and then feel stupid because of it, they should 'hate' themselves, and not Monteverde or Yafa as if either of those pointed a gun at their heads forcing them to capitulate and buy a Monza.

 

I'm all for people having 'standards' for the quality of their own decisions, and hating themselves for making mistakes, etc. if they're inclined to feel bad about money misspent.

Edited by A Smug Dill

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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The problem is that they were being misled. Yafa advertised it as a model all its own. If they called it the "monteverde 992" then sure, there would be less ambiguity. But the problem is that they sneakily took a worthless product that they paid less than a dime apiece for, put it in a chinese box that they paid less than a dime apiece for, put in a restamped 992 nib that they paid less than a penny apiece for, and marketed it as a new product. They got major retailers that we trust like Goulet and jetpens and pen chalet to market them and show them being used as demonstrators (which it was well known that the 992 couldn't do that due to the cracking issues, which led many of us to believe that they were making the 992 but doing it with proper QC - something a lot of us would happily throw twenty bucks at - the form factor of the 992 is amazing)

 

Maybe if the monza was five or six bucks. MAYBE. it might be. But "taking the (bleep)" doesn't even begin to approach the behavior.

 

This isn't badge engineering of cars for different markets. This was plain and obvious an attempt at taking advantage of customers. "Caveat emptor" does not apply when a company is deliberately trying to take advantage of you. There are laws about tricking people into buying something of no value (see multilevel marketing.) Selling someone (bleep) rebranded and misleading products can even get you into hot water in the UK.

Edited by Honeybadgers

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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Again, I can understand people hating themselves for paying too much for a product. As far as my first-hand experience – as a purchaser (using my own money) and user of the Monza – goes, both of my pens have not given me any trouble, and it's a fit-for-purpose writing instrument. If you tell me it's exactly the same as the Jinhao 992, let's say I take your word for it, and so I'd say it stands to reason the Jinhao 992 is also a fit-for-purpose writing instrument. To pretend the Monza is unfit would, to me, be irrational; and to hate the Monza because I accepted paying the asking price for it would also be irrational.

 

To answer your other points: both of my Monza pens work just fine as demonstrators, the converters supplied have given me no problems, and I can see the ink in the converter through the pen barrel perfectly well. (I'm sure you of all people know 'demonstrator' does not in any way imply that a pen is either a piston-filler or an eye-dropper, or otherwise allow/require the inside of the pen's barrels to serve as the reservoir for ink.) The inscription on the nib says Monteverde, not Jinhao, and it writes just fine in every sense of the word. Do people also hate Diplomat, Leonardo, etc. for not leaving the inscription on their nibs as Bock, Schmidt or whichever nib manufacturer produces them?

I endeavour to be frank and truthful in what I write, show or otherwise present, when I relate my first-hand experiences that are not independently verifiable; and link to third-party content where I can, when I make a claim or refute a statement of fact in a thread. If there is something you can verify for yourself, I entreat you to do so, and judge for yourself what is right, correct, and valid. I may be wrong, and my position or say-so is no more authoritative and carries no more weight than anyone else's here.

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You're constructing a straw man argument. The other brands have gone to lengths to differentiate themselves. Yes, they may use outsourced nibs, but they are made to specification. I will cede that the monza's omniflex nib (though it is rock hard) is akin to a diplomat nib. It is made to spec. It's not just laser etched with their logo (some people are more okay with this than others - I personally don't buy pens with simple JoWo nibs that have not been tweaked in any way beyond the logo, but that's only tangential - as those pens differentiate themselves in their body)

 

You need to take a few steps back - this is duplicitious marketing. If diplomat took a $15 jinhao dragon pen, etched their name on it, and sold it for $200, that would be completely different from them using bespoke bodies with high quality control and outsourced the nibs as made-to-spec. There is case to be made only for the omniflex monza in that it uses an outsourced body but a made to spec nib. But the problem in that pen is that it still fails the basic QC requirements of not falling apart.

 

And your pens not falling apart is great, but anecdotal. There is enormous, ample evidence that they fall apart The Kaco edge's cap is the same, as was the section crack in some lamy 2000's. When we aggregate the info, we get a picture of a cheap pen bought from jinhao, with "jinhao" crossed out and "monteverde" written back on in crayon, and a two thousand percent markup with the singular purpose of duping customers. Not delivering a product they think had real quality behind it, because by the time the monza was announced, the 992 was well established as a badly made pen. When every single piece of the pen screws apart and mounts to its equivalent part of a 992, we have our evidence that the two were made on the same injection molding machines. There is no reason whatsoever to buy a monza over a 992. None whatsoever. There's no better body QC, nib QC, and the warranty is such a joke that you could buy three more 992's for the cost of returning your monza for warranty "work." I only bought my monza from Goulet because it came with a bottle of free ink that essentially made the pen free. And when it cracked, Goulet refunded me the entire cost of the pen.

 

Also, the marketing was hardcore duplicitous. They encouraged companies to show it being used as an eyedropper, and shortly after release, companies with basic self respect like Goulet QUICKLY took down that marketing because the pens were cracking and leaking, and apologized.

 

You're a strong supporter of Caveat Emptor, but there is just so much wrong with that line of thought as a consumer for so many reasons. Lots of people don't make much money, and $20 may be a lot for them. Ripping the rich off is no more right or wrong than ripping off the poor. This is me getting a bit tangential myself, but the argument that businesses only exist to make money is the most bogus, flawed idea in modern history. We live in a modern era of snake oil. Yes, you were sold a product. That product either didn't work or didn't last like it should have under reasonable consumer expectations. That's being grifted.

Edited by Honeybadgers

Selling a boatload of restored, fairly rare, vintage Japanese gold nib pens, click here to see (more added as I finish restoring them)

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