Nib Purists - Is It Possible?

[FarmBoy]

FarmBoy is amazed that anyone can write with 40% of the pens they have. He does good to write with the one or two he can find that have ink in them...

[cattar]

Fewer pens, FarmBoy. Fewer pens.

 

 

 

eta. I only have 9 to resac right now.

Edited June 21, 2018 by cattar

[siamackz]

40%?? That low? I can count the number of pens that I haven't tweaked on the fingers of one hand.

 

I found it entertaining when I read the instructions that came with one famous German brand of pen that in essence said that if the nib didn't fit the way you write, you should change the way you write. Now that's confidence for you, and typically German (says he with a German last name).

+1

[flipper_gv]

There is only two nibs I haven't touched: Pelikan m1000 XF and Montegrappa Desiderio M.

Every pen in my collection other than these two have been adjusted. That includes Sailor Pro Gear, m1000 B, Pilot 823, etc... I want my pens to feel the way I want them to, not as the company shipped it.

Most of the time that means increasing flow (on almost all pens) and very light smoothing (mostly on Japanese pens). The only actually problematic nib I had was the m1000 B which had a very light baby's bottom issue.

[JonSzanto]

Another observation: just because a nib might get adjusted doesn't mean it was defective or lacking in quality control. I happen to be left-handed and very often will tweak a nib slightly or, on premium nibs/pens, have it done by a professional to suit the particular angle and direction of my writing. This is no indication of a lack of care or manufacture (speaking of new/modern pens) but simply the reality of making the pen work for my specific needs. Very few of my pens have not had their nibs adjusted, but these are not bad nibs or pens.

[Olya]

Another observation: just because a nib might get adjusted doesn't mean it was defective or lacking in quality control. I happen to be left-handed and very often will tweak a nib slightly or, on premium nibs/pens, have it done by a professional to suit the particular angle and direction of my writing. This is no indication of a lack of care or manufacture (speaking of new/modern pens) but simply the reality of making the pen work for my specific needs. Very few of my pens have not had their nibs adjusted, but these are not bad nibs or pens.

That's what I thought too. At the beginning I was very hesitant to dive too deeply into FPs reading how everyone "had to" adjust their nibs, esp when it came down to trying Japanese pens. Well, eventually (admittedly it didn't take too long) I dove in head first and now many many pens later, I can count on one hand less than stellar pens that had to go back (notably the new iteration of Parker's IM model, which dried out overnight). No Japanese pen (models from the big 3, from school pen to "entry level" gold nibs) I purchased needed any adjustment, I've had issues with Pelikan nibs but retailers exchanged the nib units and all's great now, modern & vintage Sheaffers (& Parkers!) have been great....

 

Statements how many nibs are "faulty", "needed" adjustment etc leave me scratching my head a bit; and might be quite a big factor in people not wanting to try FPs...

 

That being said, I leave the nibs be as is. Platinum's are toothier than I like and louder too, but I've come to appreciate them for what they are, and kinda to want to "experience" the brand as they made their pens.

However, I would not hesitate to adjust a nib (or have it adjusted) if the pen were great, but the nib not to my liking. So far it's worked out perfectly well without adjustments.

 

That includes vintage pens (for me more than modern, though my main venue are brand new pens), as maybe the nib were mangled through the decades and need some fixing.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Olya

[Honeybadgers]

I've yet to get a single pen from visconti (five in total now) that wrote anything approaching what anybody would call reasonable out of the box. they all skipped and hard started like nightmares.

 

Now, if a pen writes with consistent flow and NEVER skips or hard starts and doesn't feel like there's a burr (I tend to like tooth) I will usually just learn to appreciate the pen as it is. Sailor pens feel like pencils, and I'd be stupid to want to change that. But a pen that literally scratches up and damages the paper because it's so scratchy is not "as intended", it's broken.

 

Same goes for a bexley stub that skips every other letter. That's a problem, not "how it was meant to be."

[JonSzanto]

I've yet to get a single pen from visconti (five in total now) that wrote anything approaching what anybody would call reasonable out of the box. they all skipped and hard started like nightmares.

 

At what point in the five pens, if at all, did you think "Maybe I should reconsider my purchasing habits?"

[JulieParadise]

That is another point in the decision either behave like a purist or go for it and grind away: Most of the nibs I worked on were perfectly fine. They were just boring and did not fill a gap in my pen rotation.

 

Pelikan M300 EF --> the widest EF you could ever imagine, felt like a B in Japanese terms, became an EF (and was sold later)

Replacement nib for this M300 B --> was a perfect pretty round B with a hint of stub writing. I pronounced the stub-ness and now love it.

Pelikan M320 M --> was quite boring and rather round, too, so I made it into a stub-M, much more enjoyable now.

Pelikan M400 White Tortoise F --> the most boring F you could imagine. Turned it into an EF architect nib with a pretty fine downstroke (Platinum EF-ish) and a 0.5 mm sidestroke.

Pelikan M200 BB nib --> boring Kugel nib, is now a lovely wet 1.1 mm italic

Pelikan M200 B nib --> boring round tipping blob, ground to a 0.8 mm italic that I sold recently.

Pilot Décimo M --> good M, but nothing special at all, is now what I would call a F/M architect nib with a sidestroke about twice as wide as the downstroke.

Pilot Elite EF --> all in all the nib was good, but it did not complement my Pilot E95s with an amazing F nib, so I turned the EF into an italic

Montblanc 114 M --> booooring. Turned it into a great F architect nib. (Tipping of one tine broke off and after being shocked for a while I made a 1.5 italic but will have to have the tipping restored in coming years as writing on pure gold is not a very lasting method ... )

KaWeCo Sport (modern) --> about 20 nibs I altered before giving these away as gifts over the last years, turned the nibs into "real (E)EF" or pretty fine italics (0.4-0.8 mm)

 

In case of the Pelikans and the KaWeCo Sports especially there was no real need to do something to the nibs other than my wish to have a more special nib.

 

And it is fun, just plain fun to be able to alter something to suit your writing style, angle and overall representation of nib widths in the grand scheme of the collection.

[Honeybadgers]

Another observation: just because a nib might get adjusted doesn't mean it was defective or lacking in quality control. I happen to be left-handed and very often will tweak a nib slightly or, on premium nibs/pens, have it done by a professional to suit the particular angle and direction of my writing. This is no indication of a lack of care or manufacture (speaking of new/modern pens) but simply the reality of making the pen work for my specific needs. Very few of my pens have not had their nibs adjusted, but these are not bad nibs or pens.

 

Nope. You southpaws are just morally wrong.

 

[Honeybadgers]

 

At what point in the five pens, if at all, did you think "Maybe I should reconsider my purchasing habits?"

 

Two pens, returned multiple times Oh dear god do I wish the divina metropolitan wasn't fatally flawed to suck ink into the sleeve in the section... I returned it twice and all 3 not only wrote horridly (fixable with a nibmeister) but they sucked ink into that sleeve that was not physically possible to clean. So it'd just gunk up more and more and more. But I still maintain it was the most beautiful thing I've ever touched. wound up having to return it for a full refund.

 

And my homosapiens just wrote nightmarishly out of the box, Coles told me to pound sand since I just told myself for about 60 days that I was going to have it nibmeistered (after 30 days they won't cover the nib) but Goulet took the pen back (they cover it for 90 days) swapped it for an EF, tested it, and threw in a free $80 visconti leather case. Turns out that one skipped hard too, but I just tightened up the tines and it solved 97% of the hard starts, enough that I can live with it until I send off a few other pens for nib work.

[JonSzanto]

 

Nope. You southpaws are just morally wrong.

 

 

Man, I'm counting on it!

[inkstainedruth]

I doubt I'm a "nib purist". OTOH, a lot of my pens are vintage, so they write the way they write. For new pens? Only a few have had to be tweaked or worked on. One notable exception was my first M200 Café Crème. That B nib skipped no matter what ink I had in the pen, so it definitely needed a nibmeister. OTOH, the B nib on my M405 Stresemann is great -- no problems whatsoever. But I might have it reground into something like a cursive italic, just because. It's not actually the "correct" nib to begin with -- I guess they are supposed to have rhodium plated nibs, but in order to get the nib width I ended up with a two-toned nib. Which is okay by me -- just makes *my* pen a little unique.

I even have a couple of pens that don't have the same brand nib in them. The (possibly English-made) music nib and feed harvested from a no-name lever-filler ended up on a restored Parker Parkette; and a found in the wild Laidtone Duofold is currently sporting the nib on in when I bought it -- a #3 Sheaffer nib (I might swap it out for a more correct nib at some point, but since it writes just fine with the Sheaffer nib, there's no hurry...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Tseg]

People are shocked at my 40% adjustment claim, so in order of acquisition... 6 of 13 (46%) were a bit troubling out of the box (in bold), some others I took from writing very good to amazing (to my tastes):

 

1. Pilot Metropolitan (F) new - Amazon - Perfect out of the box, super fine line, over time came to realize a bit scratchy relative to others - no adjustment (only pen I've 'retired')
2. TWSBI 580AL (M, then B ) new - Amazon - Had an ink starvation issue, would always skip by bottom of 1st page - my first 'nib work', got it to go 3 pages without drying out but eventually I broke the ink feed with all my toying around... was a good learning investment for <$25. Replaced with a Broad nib that works amazingly out of the box.
3. Waterman Carene (F) new - Amazon - A very good writer, but slightly dry, so gave it a copper flossing after a while - my first exposure to 'smooth' writing gold nibs. Now works amazingly.
4. Pilot Custom 823 (F) new - Amazon - Really nice out of the box, eventually I copper flossed it to make it slightly more wet and thicker line. Now works amazingly.
5. Pelikan M1000 (M) new - Cult Pens - Nightmare nib out of box - soupy and snaggy and BBB, but bought on grey market from other continent making a return problematic... After months of many nib tweaking sessions I would characterize the nib performance now as 'very good', not amazing. This nib seems impacted by all conditions, including atmospheric condition changes. I still debate whether to send to a professional
6. ST Dupont Olympio XL (M) used - eBay - skipping issues and dry feed... after trying copper flossing this pen taught me the power of Ultrasonic Cleaning when pens skip. Now works amazingly.
7. Pelikan M120 (F) new - Cult Pens - Wrote very well out of the box but after several months I took a loupe to it to notice tines slightly out of alignment. After aligning, the nib needed a slight touch of the micro-mesh, now writes amazing
8. Sailor King of Pen Pro Gear (B )new - eBay - wrote perfect and amazing out of box. Period.
9. Fountain Pen Revolution Triveni Jr. (Flex) new - Amazing out of the box (except when flexing, then it railroads, but an exceptional fine writer)
10. Fountain Pen Revolution Indus (1.0 stub) new - could not write out of box, ink feed issue. After taking a scalpel to the ink feed and some copper flossing of the nib it writes amazing
11. Montblanc 24 (M or F Oblique) used - eBay - dry and skipped - scalpel to the feed, copper floss to nib and much ultrasonic cleaning and this pen now writes amazing
12. Lamy 2000 (F) new - Cult Pens - very dry 'pastel' writing - after a little this and that I ended up unscrewing the section and jiggled the feed and it began to write amazing... a few weeks later the Macrolon slipped through my fingers and dropped 6" onto my keyboard and bent/splayed a tine. Now a few weeks after that and a lot of massaging it is back to writing amazing
13. Sheaffer PFM III (F) used - eBay - Amazing writer

So most of my pens now write amazing (Western Fine or thicker and pretty juicy). I gave up using the Metropolitan due to ergonomics (section too thin and step too big). My Pelikan M1000 is my labor of love. I'd get rid of it but now I have too much time invested.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Tseg

[JonSzanto]

"Out of the box" does NOT refer to used pens. Not to mention "grey market" pens being suspect as well. I'm sorry to say that the above listing can't be used to substantiate *any* type of indictment against pen manufacturers and their nib quality from the factory.

[7is]

 

Vintage pens are a whole different topic, to be honest, as there simply is no replacement in many cases. I hesitate and mostly refrain from touching the nibs beyond making them write. For example, I own two safety from around 1925 and think it would be kind of a sacrilege to alter their nibs.

 

So, for modern pens I am by no means a purist. For vintage pens I am pretty much one.

I'm pretty much the same. I wouldn't touch a vintage nib beyond bringing it back to life.

 

I'm not a purist regarding new nibs, however, I stopped modifying them some time ago. Regulating the flow, finding the right ink and seeing how they affect my handwriting can be as rewarding as grinding a tip into a new shape.

Edited June 25, 2018 by 7is

[hinky]

I guess I've just been lucky. The only pens I've ever adjusted are my Chinese pens which I purchased online, and my Pilot 78Gs which were all dry as a bone. Almost all my pens that cost more than $15 (e.g. Pilot Metropolitan, TWSBI Eco, Lamy Safari, etc.) have written well out of the box, except for maybe one or two that needed minor tine alignment.

 

I like variety when it comes to writing experience, and I don't want all my pens to feel the same; I know I could make them all write buttery smooth, but that gets a bit boring eventually. Also, if a pen is scratchy, it doesn't get bought 😂. I'm lucky I get to try pens before buying them, and I know not everyone can.

 

I don't even touch the ink flow, unless there's ink starvation or inconsistent flow. Even then, I would do rounds of flushing first and then find a better ink for the pen before any (more extreme) troubleshooting. If all my pens were gushers, then I'd be restricted to drier inks...and I love inks. So I keep some gushers, some dry writers, and most of my other pens have average flow. I did adjust those damn 78Gs that were bone dry 😅, and now they're great.

 

Also, if I buy a pen that I liked in the store, but down the road realize it's not for me, then I'd sell it for a little less than what I paid for (I've only done this twice because of aesthetics and not writing performance). Life's too short to live with a pen you don't like 😉

 

I love the fact that my pens all feel different. If I wanted them all to write the same, I'd buy rollerballs/ballpoints instead. Jk! 😅

 

I do understand the appeal of having pens that are tailored to one's writing style (pen grip, writing angle, nib rotation), preferences (smooth or with feedback for control), and needs (e.g. students dealing with crappy paper). It's reassuring to know that whatever pen you pick up will write the way you want and exactly how you expect; no muss, no fuss. And there's just something extra special about a nib you adjusted yourself 😉

 

I don't think there is a pure nib purist though. Because just by choosing which ink to use (wet/dry ink that is not made/tested by the pen maker) is already some form of adjustment.

 

But hey, what do I know? I've only been in this hobby around 2 years 😅 What's important is that people enjoy the pens they have, and in the way that they please 😊

 

Dang, that's a long post 😅

[Fatalpotato]

People are shocked at my 40% adjustment claim, so in order of acquisition... 6 of 13 (46%) were a bit troubling out of the box (in bold), some others I took from writing very good to amazing (to my tastes):

 

 

• Pilot Metropolitan (F) new - Amazon - Perfect out of the box, super fine line, over time came to realize a bit scratchy relative to others - no adjustment (only pen I've 'retired')
• TWSBI 580AL (M, then B ) new - Amazon - Had an ink starvation issue, would always skip by bottom of 1st page - my first 'nib work', got it to go 3 pages without drying out but eventually I broke the ink feed with all my toying around... was a good learning investment for <$25. Replaced with a Broad nib that works amazingly out of the box.
• Waterman Carene (F) new - Amazon - A very good writer, but slightly dry, so gave it a copper flossing after a while - my first exposure to 'smooth' writing gold nibs. Now works amazingly.
• Pilot Custom 823 (F) new - Amazon - Really nice out of the box, eventually I copper flossed it to make it slightly more wet and thicker line. Now works amazingly.
• Pelikan M1000 (M) new - Cult Pens - Nightmare nib out of box - soupy and snaggy and BBB, but bought on grey market from other continent making a return problematic... After months of many nib tweaking sessions I would characterize the nib performance now as 'very good', not amazing. This nib seems impacted by all conditions, including atmospheric condition changes. I still debate whether to send to a professional
• ST Dupont Olympio XL (M) used - eBay - skipping issues and dry feed... after trying copper flossing this pen taught me the power of Ultrasonic Cleaning when pens skip. Now works amazingly.
• Pelikan M120 (F) new - Cult Pens - Wrote very well out of the box but after several months I took a loupe to it to notice tines slightly out of alignment. After aligning, the nib needed a slight touch of the micro-mesh, now writes amazing
• Sailor King of Pen Pro Gear (B )new - eBay - wrote perfect and amazing out of box. Period.
• Fountain Pen Revolution Triveni Jr. (Flex) new - Amazing out of the box (except when flexing, then it railroads, but an exceptional fine writer)
• Fountain Pen Revolution Indus (1.0 stub) new - could not write out of box, ink feed issue. After taking a scalpel to the ink feed and some copper flossing of the nib it writes amazing
• Montblanc 24 (M or F Oblique) used - eBay - dry and skipped - scalpel to the feed, copper floss to nib and much ultrasonic cleaning and this pen now writes amazing
• Lamy 2000 (F) new - Cult Pens - very dry 'pastel' writing - after a little this and that I ended up unscrewing the section and jiggled the feed and it began to write amazing... a few weeks later the Macrolon slipped through my fingers and dropped 6" onto my keyboard and bent/splayed a tine. Now a few weeks after that and a lot of massaging it is back to writing amazing
• Sheaffer PFM III (F) used - eBay - Amazing writer

So most of my pens now write amazing (Western Fine or thicker and pretty juicy). I gave up using the Metropolitan due to ergonomics (section too thin and step too big). My Pelikan M1000 is my labor of love. I'd get rid of it but now I have too much time invested.

I would definitely recommend sending the m1000 to a nib meister, preferably one that is known to work with most pens/specific to Pelikans. I know that you've bought the pen in a good deal, but don't forget that it's still a $500+ pen, and it is definitely worth it when its at it's prime. I have 3 m1ks with ef, f and m nibs, and I can say that ef came out of the box in a perfect manner, and would definitely spend upto $50 for the other two each to write as good as the ef. That combination of smoothness and semi-flex with such a big nib is a very unique feeling.

[SpecTP]

of my over 200+ pens, I can count on one hand the number of pens that did not have to be adjusted in some way or another. pens are for the most part, tools to be used.

[Freddy]

People are shocked at my 40% adjustment claim, so in order of acquisition... 6 of 13 (46%) were a bit troubling out of the box (in bold), some others I took from writing very good to amazing (to my tastes):

Not at all shocked.....................

 

Fountain Pen Revolution Indus (1.0 stub) new - could not write out of box, ink feed issue. After taking a scalpel to the ink feed and some copper flossing of the nib it writes amazing

Montblanc 24 (M or F Oblique) used - eBay - dry and skipped - scalpel to the feed, copper floss to nib and much ultrasonic cleaning and this pen now writes amazin

 

Re: 'Scalpel to the ink feed and some copper flossing to correct ink feed /dry and skipped issues'

 

I'm not at all familiar with this technique.

 

Specificity: Please expound.

 

Thanks.

 

Fred