Nib Purists - Is It Possible?

[Tseg]

I have heard the arguement about being a nib pureist and so they don't send pens to meisters or take micro-mesh to them. The idea is to experience the pen as the brand intended. I will tell you 40% of my pen purchases needed some kind of work out of the box, mainley due to:

• burrs that would snag on the paper
• misaligned nibs that would create a very scratchy writing experience
• poor ink flow leading to very pastel ink colors being laid down, or worse, skipping and hard starts
• loud, singy nibs

Sometimes when adjusting one issue, another may be created. I generally prefer smoother to scratchier, wetter to dryer nibs. In fact, may favorite part about the pen hobby is the writing experience. If I don't utterly enjoy the writing experience with a pen, I don't enjoy that pen. What % of pen enthusiasts out there are purists, that will bend a tine if only absolutely necessary, but stays clear of micro-mesh and copper flossing so the can realize the intended feel of the brand?

 

 

[Uncial]

40%!!!!!! That's huge!

What are you buying?

If I (accidentally) buy a dry writing pen I usually sell it on as my preference is for very wet writers. The only other pen I can think of that I need to adjust for myself are Sailor nibs, which I give a very slight mylar polish to because I dislike feedback, but half the time you don't have to do it because the nib will be fine.

If a pen arrives with a nib that has stilted flow issues, skipping, hard starts, scratchiness etc, I send it straight back.

Other than that, I tend to leave well alone. I'm not sure if that puts me in your purist category though.

[JulieParadise]

Hm. Frankly, I do not care about the intention of anyone else regarding the feel and writing expeirence. If it does not suit my liking I _will_ give it the chance of some writing hours and see if I could adjust to it, but after that -- if it proves to be sth. I do not like -- I will adjust things to my liking. Or maybe sell the pen (I never did that until now).

 

With current offering, esp. when it concerns brands like Pelikan, where you can easily replace nib sections, I have no scruples changing a fine nib to a 0.5 stub or whatever I feel like. The risk is small.

 

Vintage pens are a whole different topic, to be honest, as there simply is no replacement in many cases. I hesitate and mostly refrain from touching the nibs beyond making them write. For example, I own two safety from around 1925 and think it would be kind of a sacrilege to alter their nibs.

 

So, for modern pens I am by no means a purist. For vintage pens I am pretty much one.

[Mech-for-i]

I am lazy , had to admit to that, so I tend not to do any tuning unless its needed ... and its not about being a purist or not. Its a pen, and if it do not write proper for me, than it need to be fixed or replaced, period.

[minddance]

40%! Where do u buy your pens from and what kind of pens do you refer to? Why won't you exchange or refund the pens?

[ENewton]

I have no problem at all with asking someone to adjust a vintage pen that initially has misaligned tines or some other problem due to its age or prior handling. I consider such an adjustment part of the restoration.

 

However, if a certain manufacturer made footed nibs, for example, and I preferred smoothly rounded nibs, I would probably buy a pen that had a smoothly rounded nib in the first place, as opposed to buying the pen with the footed nib and modifying it.

[zaddick]

It's my pen and my money so I have no qualms about making the pen write the way I want. Factories don't produce pens just for me so I adjust them as I see fit. This is not to say I adjust or have all pens modified, just I do not hesitate to make a pen/nib work for me. Should that lower the value to someone else so be it. I tend to keep pens I have modified anyhow.

[Fatalpotato]

So, for modern pens I am by no means a purist. For vintage pens I am pretty much one.

I didn't know it was possible to do so in such a nuanced topic but I agree to everything you've said in your post. Never sold any pens due to living in a rigid market with hefty taxes, but I can not see how a professional modification would make a pen less worthy than an unmodified one, as personally I would pay more for a Pelikan with a with a mod from Mike or John than I'd pay for a stock Pelikan, as the former ones would certainly write wonderfully out of the box, but latter might or might not have any problems, and frankly I don't care how someone in the Pelikan factory intended their product to be used, and Imho its better to write with a modded pen instead of using the stock one as an expensive paperweight

Edited June 18, 2018 by Fatalpotato

[CraigR]

40% seems like a high percentage of new pens needing nib work. For modern pens, I rarely have had problems other than needing to flush/clean before first use to eliminate manufacturing residue. A few times, I have returned a pen because it was defective, but out of the large number I have bought over the years, it was minimal. Since I am able to work on my own pens, I sometimes will need to adjust the flow on a pen to meet my writing preferences.

 

Vintage pens are another thing entirely. The vintage pens I have bought from well-known restorers have been excellent with only a rare one needing adjustment. Vintage pens I have found in the wild or on eBay almost always needed restoration including nib re-work or tuning.

 

I am certainly not a nib purist in the context the OP mentions. I buy pens to use them, not just collect and display. I assume that modern manufacturers intend to produce a pen that writes correctly. The problem is with each person's idea of what "correctly" means. The professional pen merchants that I have bought from, such as Richard Binder, John Mottishaw, etc have always adjusted a new pen to meet the buyer's preferences and needs before shipping. One of the best reasons to purchase pens from this kind of dealer.

[cattar]

Like others have said, 40% is a high rate for problem nibs.

 

Before I joined fpn, I'd used fountain pens for years and hadn't needed to adjust a pen, other than, rarely, align the tines.

 



At the time I joined, fpn had a lot of posts about smoothing, nibs had to be smooth. And wetness, pens had to be wet. And then paper, paper had to be better and even coated because of feathering and bleedthrough. And I wondered if I was missing something.



 

I joined a pen group and wrote with a lot of pens I wouldn't have otherwise. I learned that meistered nibs have a different feel than what's typical for the pen. I learned to leave my cash at home and to note pen descriptions, my initial impressions, and whether I'd want to sit and write 10 pages. That saved me from buying a lot of lovely nibbed pens that weren't ergonomic for me.

 



I've cut 2 damaged nibs into italics, ground 2 preppies into stubs, and smoothed those nibs. And I've changed the nibs on 2 pens.



 

I like my pens and use them daily. I like the differences in feel of the nibs, I like to use whatever paper is handy and see the open space in an 'e'. I don't smooth and adjust the wetness so all my pens write the same.



 

I don't want a Sailor or an Aurora to write like a Pilot or a Pelikan, but some people do.



 

If you follow reviewers long enough, you can see the time when they're no longer newbies-- they've eased their grip, they're not pressing the pen or turning it as they write, and they recognize that nibs write differently. Some reviewers decide they like those differences and some prefer to adjust so all their pens give the same experience.


[jekostas]

I am the complete opposite. I work on 90%+ of the pens I purchase, both new and used. The vast majority of them don't need any work done to write well, but if I feel I can improve a nib I have no problem whipping out the Micromesh/Mylar paper.

[pajaro]

Until I joined here, for about fifty years of using fountain pens, I never adjusted or messed with a nib. Parker 51, Montblanc and Sheaffer pens. I am trying to stop messing around with the nibs. Most of them don't really need it if you use them as intended. It seems to be when fussy taste gets involved. Not that that's bad, it just isn't for everybody.

 

I am thinking it is no longer down my street.

Edited June 18, 2018 by pajaro

[minddance]

I might adjust wetness but wouldn't use micromesh (very much). The few instances that I used micromesh were:

 

TWSBI ECO and 580 stub. I spreaded the tines for a wetter flow and revealed the totally unfinished and very sharp, most sctatchy inner tines (insides of tines) which I had to use micromesh to smoothen and round very slightly. Certainly not brainless figure 8s because that won't solve the problem. I spent alot of time just to round it slightly. Round is difficult.

 

Platinum 3776 Medium and Broad: I was 18 then, impressionable and easily taken by appearances and could not resist the rather unique Chartres Bleu and Bourgogne. But they had the most unpleasant feedback (medium was dry and scratchy) for my hands but I couldn't return them for refund (very bad seller), so I had to work very very hard on these nibs. The tipping material wrote as though they were porous! Imagine a very hard metallic sponge upon the paper. Platinum Medium was dry and scratchy and I had a most difficult time getting rid of the scratch. Broad wasn't scratchy but I just did not enjoy the feedback and dryness. If I could have a second chance, I wouldn't buy Platinum at all. Preppys are fine, actually, totally different nib finishing from the higher end models, ironic, for me at least. May I add that my platinum medium and broad now write very nicely, wet and smooth with a broader sweet spot than before. But they are not what Platinum has intended, in fact, way opposite from the factory default.

 

My Pelikans never needed any micromesh. My m800medium wrote very dry, I had to spread the tines very little and for some people, it meant all hell broke lose but to me, it was heavenly. The inner tines are very well finished. Other than that, I am enjoying very much my m200ef, f, m, b, bb(not for everyday) and m1000f (not the easiest pen to balance, for me and takes alot of time to make friends with it, but worthwhile).

 

Sailor Somiko Medium: All Sailor Medium and broad nibs have that inverted anchor shape that acts as a police so that the writer won't rotate the pen and it provides control and precision. Actually the mf nibs have a very slight inverted anchor too, under a microscope. I had to use micromesh on the Somiko to round the edges abit to suit my hand and writing speed. I once had the Sailor 21k broad and medium, they irritated me too much and because of the price, I wouldn't work on the nibs myself. I returned them for refund.

 

Those were wilder days. Now, if I dont like a pen, I would just refund. No micromesh nonsense because this micromeshing is never-ending. As for wetness, I have enough variety of inks to gauge how wet a pen is. If thr nib is well-finished, I would spread the tines abit. But if the nib isn't finished well (under magnification), especially the inner tines, I won't touch it. Refund immediately.

 

With some brands, certain qualities and traits are systematically inherent across the board. I have identified which brands and exactly which nib widths I wouldn't buy from a specific brand. Because I know, by now, some kinds of micromeshing and nib work are beyond me. Why should I pay for something to micromesh(?!!) And I refuse to tie up loose ends that result from slack quality control.

Edited June 18, 2018 by minddance

[Bo Bo Olson]

I buy very few new pens, and have no problems with the MB Woolf, or Pelikan 215 or 200's I've bought new.....I buy old cheap pens.

I did have a tad of baby bottom on my 605 after I swapped from an perfect M to a BB, that was to be stubbed or made CI some day.

 

Of course the vintage and semi-vintage Pelikan nibs were all just fine. But the new Pelikans with the double Kugal/ball nib, has that problem.

Part of the problem as I see it, is they had to design the nib to be also be held and written by ball point users with no three minutes to learn how to hold a fountain pen. That is why the modern 400/600/800 has fat and blobby nibs.

 

And Pelikan does know 'butter smooth' is wished.

(I listened on some vid to a German lady nib grinder at Pelikan....who didn't know exactly what the English term, baby bottom was......thinking it was as smooth as a baby's bottom, that she was happily doing.)

 

Well, I buy/bought mostly vintage pens....cheaper. They sat in the dark of a drawer for a couple of generations, so had drag from 'iridium-micro-corrosion' or 'iridium rust'. At first I used a good quality brown paper bag for that.....until micro mesh became cheaper.........and I am too lazy to waste time looking for butter smooth, when I can get 'good and smooth' easily.

Rotating the nib constantly all I was doing was removing the rust drag. Brown paper bag Will Not make a nib butter smooth. It will make it good and smooth, the stage under butter smooth.

 

Noobies all want butter smooth at all costs....in they have read it is the best. Once in a while after writing for a year, some want to know how to rough up the tipping so it's not so dammed smooth any more.

 

I have many '50-70 German stub semi-flex nibs. So mostly don't need to stub a nib to have it have any character.

I've had one pen made CI by PB, a nail 18K Lamy Persona OB with absolutely no line variation. It now has nice line variation.

I'd swapped in the nice M that my Pelikan 605 came with for a BB *** ....I was newer back then and was going to have the semi-nail nib made into a stub or CI....eventually, .... finally Fountainble made it a butter smooth 1.0 stub.

 

*** Yes, I too picked up the anti-M prejudice on this com.

Got cured of that. finally.

 

I can see looking for character in grinding a modern round ball nib....so stubbing and or making CI's give nice character. I find German vintage semi/maxi-semi-flex factory stubs does that and the obliques of that era can not be beaten. so have no reason to alter those nibs.

 

That 40% or 60% of the nibs have to be tweeked at home, seems real high. Could well be the fountain pen is being held wrong.

95% of scratchy is misaligned tines and holding the fountain pen before the big index knuckle like a ball point.

 

I was at the Lamy factory on a newspaper won tour, where they test the steel nibs by sound on a big paper roll drum. (gold nibs are made upstairs in it's own department...that we didn't get to see because gold can walk) A little old lady, tweeks the 1 in say 16 that are not good enough. Sometimes only one tweek, a couple of times I saw her have to tweek three times. So the pen leaves her station good to go.

 

After the steel Lamy nibs are finished with the slitting, they have to be heated to bring them back from a big V to the narrow slit we know.

I don't see that being done in videos of other nib making. Different techniques.

 

I do suspect that the packaging and the pen case itself is not bomb proof, then is kicked around hard enough to break analog gauges when mailed, causing the tines to become misaligned.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Randal6393]

Since I usually write a hand that requires a specific nib, either italic or copperplate, I find adjusting a nib or a tuning a pen to be a needed part of acquiring a new pen. So I invest a few minutes of my time to make the pen mine. On the other hand, my pens write the way I want them to and are highly satisfying to use.

 

Enjoy,

[Ron Z]

40%?? That low? I can count the number of pens that I haven't tweaked on the fingers of one hand.

 

I found it entertaining when I read the instructions that came with one famous German brand of pen that in essence said that if the nib didn't fit the way you write, you should change the way you write. Now that's confidence for you, and typically German (says he with a German last name).

[Kodiac136]

40%?? That low? I can count the number of pens that I haven't tweaked on the fingers of one hand.

I was thinking the same thing. There's not a pen in my current collection that didn't need adjusting, including my YoL and my Conid. The closest that I've ever come to perfection out of the box for my own hand is a 1912, but alas, I sold it when I downsized my collection. Out of some twenty or so pens, that's the only one I regret selling. Ah I do miss that creature...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Well, I don't count removing drag (iridium rust) from pens that sat two or more generation in the back of a drawer.

Perhaps the old nibs were made better? or I was not looking for butter smooth, but well satisfied with 'good&smooth' just under butter smooth. Not toothy, just a slight feel of the nib on paper.

[max dog]

I have heard the arguement about being a nib pureist and so they don't send pens to meisters or take micro-mesh to them. The idea is to experience the pen as the brand intended. I will tell you 40% of my pen purchases needed some kind of work out of the box, mainley due to:

• burrs that would snag on the paper
• misaligned nibs that would create a very scratchy writing experience
• poor ink flow leading to very pastel ink colors being laid down, or worse, skipping and hard starts
• loud, singy nibs

Sometimes when adjusting one issue, another may be created. I generally prefer smoother to scratchier, wetter to dryer nibs. In fact, may favorite part about the pen hobby is the writing experience. If I don't utterly enjoy the writing experience with a pen, I don't enjoy that pen. What % of pen enthusiasts out there are purists, that will bend a tine if only absolutely necessary, but stays clear of micro-mesh and copper flossing so the can realize the intended feel of the brand?

 

In the immortal words of Obi One Kanobi, only the evil dark side of the force deals in "absolutes". Never good to be a purist.

[JonSzanto]

I had never heard of a nib purist within the context presented in this thread. Setting aside anyone who was a collector of a pen that was not destined to be used to write with, but instead be preserved (for any particular reason) in as close to original condition/form, I find the idea that a person wouldn't want their nib to be altered so as to perform to the best of it's abilities to be absolutely silly.

Additionally, we must note that the OP has not indicated the price/quality level of pen they refer to when saying 40% of them were crappy. If all they bought were bottom-level Chinese pens, maybe; if they are spending hundreds of dollars on mid- to high-end pen, something's not right.