Advice On Glycerin

[Vago]

Dear members of The The Forum,

 

I have read extensively here regarding the use of glycerin to facilitate the flow of ink in a pen and I have some questions that I would appreciate any help in answering:

 

1. What glycerine- to-ink ratio can one recommend for, let's say, a 50ml bottle of ink? Initially I would like to try this with a full Waterman black 50 ml bottle.

 

2. Would anyone recommend a glycerin brand they use?

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Vago

Edited June 18, 2018 by Vago

[Uncial]

I've used photoflo to good effect. You can buy it in camera shops. I put the tiniest of tiny drops into a full bottle, but it's rare that I ever have to use it. Might it be a pen issue rather than an ink one?

[TheDutchGuy]

Photoflow is completely different from glycerine. I would not recommend the use of photoflow, because it is extremely easy to add too much and then the ink will just run through your pen.

 

Glycerine is a simple organic molecule that is commonly used in foodstuffs and soaps. There are no brands as such, glycerine is glycerine. Google it and look at the images, that will give you lots of ideas on what to buy.

 

Glycerine can be very useful if you have a pen that you want to make wetter and/or feel smoother. Or if you have a dry ink that you'd like to be able to use in dry pens. However, glycerine should *not* be considered as a standard additive to ink! Use it when needed.

 

In terms of dosage, get a 3 mL syringe that allows you to measure the volume in quantities of 0.25 mL or less. Take half of your ink bottle and transfer that to an empty bottle (that way, if you make a mistake, you won't have wasted an entire bottle). In your 50 mL example, you transfer 25 mL to another bottle. Add 0.25 mL of glycerine to it, put the cap on the bottle and gently rotate it (do not shake it vigorously). Try it in your pen. Preferably, add the ink directly to a converter or cartridge using a syringe, to prevent having to dip the feed into the bottle (because this will make the pen look wetter than it is). You'll find that even the 0.25 mL makes a difference. Increase as needed.

 

Note that line width will increase if you add too much.

Note that drying time will increase if you add too much.

Note that feathering will increase if you add too much, especially on office paper

Note that a pen will feel (much) smoother, depending on amount of glycerine, and this can be either a good thing (if it's intended) or a bad thing

 

I've had really great results with glycerine with:

a. the Lamy ABC pens that my wife and son use (a cheap, somewhat scratchy and dry pen, but it feels great in the hand); there's always a bottle of ink with glycerine in rotation for their pens

b. getting new pens to break in (some new pens I bought were extremely dry and the glycerine solved that instantly - over time, the pens became wetter and I stopped using the glycerine)

c. making very fine nibs feel less toothy

d. making more pens suitable for lefties who have a tendency to push the nib into the paper, but especially here you need to watch out for increased drying time

 

Hope this helps.

Edited June 18, 2018 by TheDutchGuy

[David0966]

Hello,

My preference is a buttery smooth nib.  I'm new to all this, and know little.  However, I have done some reading, and bought some jewelers loupes, and so forth, and have the micro-mesh light green abrasive (1 micron), and am still not satisfied w the nib.  I look @ from the side, it head-on, line of sight as the writing paper.

My question is-anyone tried this Glycerin trick, and have more experience or technique to share?  (Before I take and do TheDutchGuys routine, above?)

Thanks

[Karmachanic]

I suggest starting with a drop in a 5ml sample vial, and adjust as/if required.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/321641-shocking-ink-adulteration/

 

[es9]

Interesting. Does glycerine affect surface tension like photoflo?

[Karmachanic]

7 hours ago, es9 said:

Interesting. Does glycerine affect surface tension like photoflo?

 

Glycerine for lubrication

Photoflo/Liquitex for flow/wetness

[Maurizio]

16 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

I suggest starting with a drop in a 5ml sample vial, and adjust as/if required.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/321641-shocking-ink-adulteration/

 

 

Thanks for the reference Karmachanic.

 

For those who don’t read the whole link, here are the takeaways:

 

Glycerin will improve smoothness, and flow to some extent.

Use it sparingly.

It will increase dry time of ink (this of course varies by climate where you live, the ink, the paper, and the size of the nib used).

It will make ink appear very slightly darker.

Don’t use it in any ink you intend to wash watercolors over because it will definitely smear; learned that the hard way by using it in my first bottle of Platinum Carbon Black.

 

I have also used Liquitex Flo Aide which is a surface-tension reducer like Pho Flo. Use this very sparingly. Works nicely.

 

I add glycerin and sometimes Liquitex to all of my inks except Platinum Carbon Black. Although I have not yet experienced any mold in my inks, and, I still have my first bottle of vegetable glycerin I bought about 5 years ago and this has not developed any mold, I now add a tiny drop of Phenol to each bottle of ink I have enhanced with glycerin and to the glycerin bottle itself. I make a “tiny drop” by dipping a toothpick in the Phenol and letting most of it drip off until there’s just a small drop left. Glycerin is a medium which the little moldy creatures have a feast with, so be aware that it’s banquet food for them.

 

Photo of the stuff I use.

 

[Karmachanic]

1 hour ago, Maurizio said:

I now add a tiny drop of Phenol

 

Thanks for the additional tip.

As a chemistry ignoramus I went looking for phenol and discovered many variations. What do you suggest we look for?

[Maurizio]

I am no chemist by any means either, just a tinkerer.

 

I couldn’t find any either, and what I found through searching  appeared to be for use in a pool. I was kindly  given this link by another FPN member whose identity escapes me. If they’re reading, they can chime in. This is what I bought:

 

https://www.naturalpigments.com/phenol-carbolic-acid.html

 

I don’t have any official technical information about the proportions to use, so I can’t give any advice about that. Any ink you have from a commercial supplier undoubtably has an anti-mold agent in it. I now add the phenol as an extra precaution since I’m  adding the glycerin to my ink. 

[InesF]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:57 AM, Karmachanic said:

Glycerine for lubrication

Photoflo/Liquitex for flow/wetness

+1 👍

[Bo Bo Olson]

15 years ago, I added a tough of glycerine to a bottle of ink....in I was too cheap to by bottle a wet ink.

Didn't notice a whole lot of improvement, but it more than likely was dry 4001 inks.........never used it a second time.

 

Still have there remaining bottle of glycerine. Have no intentions of ever using it again.

I had a very dry semi-flex pen, so I bought some Waterman blue...don't remember the odd new name, or by now the old name. It worked, the pen was no longer dry.

Eventually I picked DA Royal Blue over the Waterman ink, it was wetter and more saturated.

 

My advice is to look up what is your local market wet inks.

I bought the then....15 years ago renown wet Waterman ink, now there are some Noodler users who think Waterman inks are dry.

Japanese inks are known to be wet.

 

 

[Karmachanic]

52 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

5 years ago, I added a tough of glycerine to a bottle of ink....in I was too cheap to by bottle a wet ink.

Didn't notice a whole lot of improvement, but it more than likely was dry 4001 inks.........never used it a second time.

 

Well you wouldn't because glycerine does not increase flow.  It increases lubrication, as noted above.  To increase flow/wetness a surfectant will do the trick.  Also noted above.

 

There are some beautiful inks that are as dry as the Gobi Desert in summer.  A half of a minimal amount of Liquitex will solve that problem.  Particularly when there is no (subjective) acceptable substitute.  Stipula Zafferano comes to mind.

[Bo Bo Olson]

15 years ago we were more ignorant than now...and I was of the most ignorant. In I like shading most, saturation or lubrication takes a backseat.

[es9]

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that makes an ink more dry? 

[OCArt]

3 hours ago, es9 said:

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that makes an ink more dry? 

Oddly enough, adding water will make an ink dryer. The reason is that water dilutes the surfactants and additives in the ink.

[InesF]

9 hours ago, es9 said:

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that makes an ink more dry? 

+1 to @OCArt.

 

If you like to got the "hard" way, you may find out which type of detergent was used. A first hint comes from the pH-value of the ink: anionic at high, cationic at low pH. However, there is always a surprise option with non-ionic detergents fitting every pH-value.

 

In case you know the detergent, you may neutralise it by adding some amount of the opposite ionic variant. When you go stoichiometrically, you may end up with a surface tension close to that of water. The principle is/was used for quantitative detergent measurement in the past (I loved doing that, it has so beautiful colours!).

You guess already, there is next to no chance to get rid of an non-ionic detergent.

 

Lean back and think about why an ink producer added detergent to an ink. In case you would be able to remove it, something else will happen, it can be something harmless such as a decolorisation or colour change of your ink or something dramatic, such as a precipitation of the dye clogging the ink channel of your pen and requiring the exchange of the feed.

 

Remember: there is a red, a blue and a green ink to find in each surface tension range!  

[txomsy]

 

5 hours ago, InesF said:

In case you know the detergent, you may neutralise it by adding some amount of the opposite ionic variant.

 

I wouldn't do that. I explain why below, but keep in mind I am not trustworthy having never tested it myself and may be totally wrong:

 

Adding a counterion may result in the detergent becoming insoluble and then precipitating. Mostly so if you add another detergent with opposite charge.

 

That is one of the reasons why it is unadvisable to mix detergents unless you know what you are doing: if they have opposite charges, they'd "cancel out" each other (washing-wise) and turn into ionic-bonded larger and more insoluble assemblies tending to coalesce by the hydrophobic force and precipitate or float forming a film.

 

Well, one may do it in the bottle, and wait for the precipitate or a film to form in the surface and then remove it, but that looks a bit "dirty" to me.

[TSherbs]

3 hours ago, txomsy said:

 

 

I wouldn't do that. I explain why below, but keep in mind I am not trustworthy having never tested it myself and may be totally wrong:

 

Adding a counterion may result in the detergent becoming insoluble and then precipitating. Mostly so if you add another detergent with opposite charge.

 

That is one of the reasons why it is unadvisable to mix detergents unless you know what you are doing: if they have opposite charges, they'd "cancel out" each other (washing-wise) and turn into ionic-bonded larger and more insoluble assemblies tending to coalesce by the hydrophobic force and precipitate or float forming a film.

 

Well, one may do it in the bottle, and wait for the precipitate or a film to form in the surface and then remove it, but that looks a bit "dirty" to me.

 

I'd love to see resultant photos, though. Just for the sake of cool home science....

[InesF]

19 hours ago, txomsy said:

that looks a bit "dirty" to me.

exactly that!

My excerpt was meant as "going the hard way" and chances are low you may ever go it. That's why I added the last two paragraphs ...

 

But generally, yes, the detergents may precipitate together with the dye.