Shading: Is It The Ink, Or Is It The Pen? I Think It's The Pen.

[TheDutchGuy]

People often make statements about the degree of shading of an ink. My own experiences make me question this. Specifically:

1) I have several examples of new pens that were not yet entirely cleansed of oils and residue and hence did not (yet) have a constant, steady flow of ink. With any ink, these pens shaded like crazy. Here's an example of the shading I saw in a new pen:

 

 

2) Likewise I have several examples where the degree of shading of a given ink totally depended on the pen. In my Kaweco AL Sport F, Waterman MB doesn't shade at all. In some of my other pens, it does. Another example is Sailor Jentle Souten, which doesn't shade much in most of my pens but it sure does shade in my Custom 823.

 

Based on such observations, I'm tempted to conclude that shading is primarily caused by the way ink is being transferred to paper by the nib. My pens that show the most shading tend to have finer, softer nibs, where the tines move up and down as I write, causing slight flow variations and hence shading. My steel-nibbed pens also show less shading than my gold-nibbed pens. And there's a secondary factor which is ink-related: once you've written a letter, some inks will sort of spread out over the whole of the letter whereas others will not. Inks that spread out will diminish the shading caused by the flow variations of the pen (some Sailor inks tend to do this in my experience). Inks that stay put will maintain the shading caused by the flow variations of the pen. But if you have a pen with a very constant flow, with no variation in volume of ink delivered to the paper as you write, this spreading-out of the ink is not a factor at all. It starts with the pen (and that's why I posted this here instead of in the inks section).

 

Any thoughts on this?

[LizEF]

I have found that shading depends on a combination of ink, paper, and pen. But a super-saturated dark ink does not, in my experience, shade anywhere, ever. Perhaps it would if the pen were so dry that the ink actually stopped flowing.

 

Tomoe River is known to show shading better than most. I find Clairefontaine doesn't show it well (though you might think it would). Rhodia dot pads, on the other hand, show it well. So do Black n' Red notebooks (not as good as Rhodia).

 

I get shading with Robert Oster Blue Denim out of my wettest and driest pens, regardless of nib stiffness or softness.

 

I suspect writing style (i.e. how much pressure you use, whether it's variable, speed of writing) also impacts shading.

[Karmachanic]

Ink, paper, pen and nib.

[senzen]

Ink, paper, nib, feed, converter, the moon and the stars.

[sidthecat]

I notice that most inks shade better if they’re slightly diluted, and flex helps. That’s about as certain as I can be.

[LizEF]

Ink, paper, nib, feed, converter, the moon and the stars.

 

You forgot the arrangement of the chicken bones.

[Driften]

It's both. Some inks just shade better in general and some nibs show it more then others. It does seem like a dryer ink in a wet nib is a good combination for shading, but I have seen nibs that run too dry shade well with wet inks. Nib line width and paper also make a difference. It does seem like my best shading inks are from Robert Oster.

[TheDutchGuy]

Thanks for chiming in, everyone. Some of you mentioned that it's the interaction of pen, ink and paper that determines shading. Of course I agree that with fountain pens, everything depends on everything. When it comes to shading, my belief is that the pen is the dominant factor, for reasons described above.

 

It's both. Some inks just shade better in general and some nibs show it more then others ... It does seem like my best shading inks are from Robert Oster.

I used to say the same thing ("this inks shades more than that ink"), but I think I've changed my mind a bit. In my experience Robert Oster inks are dry-ish. So (just a theory) *if* you use a pen that has subtle variations in ink flow when writing (which I suspect is due to the movement of the tines to and from the feed), the ink will stay put and not flow out evenly across the letter. Then you get shading. But if you use a pen with very constant ink flow, then the ink is evenly applied by the pen and there will be no shading, regardless of ink. So I think the pen is the dominant factor, more so than the ink.

 

Having said that, some inks just don't shade (regardless of the pen) because they are so saturated that the subtle flow variations of the pen do not yield visible colour differences. Blackstone Sydney Harbour Blue comes to mind (that started shading like crazy once I diluted it by 25%, but *only* with certain pens).

[bleair]

I think your pen is definitely a factor in this because I think shading arises based upon your writing cadence and Rythym.

 

If you have a pen that causes your hand to write letters with a tempo such that you are varying speed as you making strokes that will result in ink being spread a certain way. Imagine you develope a bit of a bounce on each downstroke, well then the end of that stroke is going to result in ink pooling a bit

 

Similarly if you use a different script I think that had a big impact. My italic styled writing often has more shading

Edited June 15, 2018 by bleair

[chromantic]

Pens definitely have an effect; this can be seen when using the same ink in different pens. I have Honey in both a Sport F and a cheap folded-nib pen. My rune-ish style of block printing consists of mostly of straight up/down strokes so the top is lighter and the line darkens at the bottom. In the Sport, the Honey shades but the gradation is smooth and the color a little evener; in the folded-nib, the gradation is much more obvious (it's also laying down less ink because the color is much lighter).

[UDog]

Lot of guys throwing shade on the OP's opinion.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Paper Paper first, a decade ago when I was a three ink 'noobie' I'd bought Lamy Turquoise; then the basis turquoise all were compared too. It was a nice enough color, but rather 'Blaaaaa'. I went to Ink Reviews for the very first time........only two reviews..........both showed it Shading . They were using 90g paper. I lucked into some Oxford Optic 90g...(the paper now used in Black n' Red notebooks. It shaded for me. (Clearefontaine 90g Velote` is running a tie with Oxford Optic, in spiral notebooks by me.)

 

The ink must be able to sit on top of the paper.....which is why Ink Jet paper is so poor.....IMO combo ink jet and laser is a compromise and can never be as good as pure laser, in ink jet printers need very fast absorption.

 

Ink is second, in one must have a good paper....80g copy paper just don't do the trick. As mentioned, supersaturated inks not at all.....vivid, monotone inks. Very well to over lubricated inks don't shade, or shade well, either...is my WOG, in I have I think few of them. Sigh Cubed....it can be I just can't tell if an ink is supersaturated or a bit too lubricated.

 

What 'noobies' call wishy-washy or pastel inks...two toned shading inks ....the old dryer brands like Pelikan 4001, MB, Herbin and a some inks of other companies shade; two toned inks.

Some ink companies like DA, make both. You have to research to see if it shades or not.

 

I once had a small list of 30-40 or so shading inks, in a thread I posted back in the Dark Ages; others had added their shading inks also.. Since then there are many more good shading inks.....especially in the last few years....inks from Australia and Poland, I've not tried.

 

Then comes the nibs....I must admit I seldom use my nails or semi-nail nibs. I do use my regular flex ones, and find they shade well. The unjustly disrespected M and F shade well; M often better than F.

 

EF and XXF are too narrow to shade well. Sometimes I have the feeling B is a tad wet....but it does depend on the nib, paper and ink combo.

 

Semi&maxi-semi-flex are wetter nibs, and must be well matched with paper and ink to shade well. Those nibs are more line variation nibs. But one can get a good paper and ink match, with a bit of luck.

I can't say much about shading and superflex nibs....in I'm looking for an ink that prevents rail roading instead of looking for shading. They are of course wet nibs.

 

""""I find Clairefontaine doesn't show it well(???!!!!) (though you might think it would). Rhodia dot pads, on the other hand, show it well. So do Black n' Red notebooks (not as good as Rhodia).""""

Grumble....finally after years got some Clairefontaine Triomphe. And Rhodia's new 90g paper.

I just had Francis/Fountainble recork an old maxi-semi-flex....1951-2 Supra nibbed Osmia-Faber-Castell 540.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was much wetter than expected, when I inked with some old discontinued C d'A Caribbean Sea, a Turquoise. I used M&K 95g typewriter paper (only good on the front like all typewriter papers, and my E40 for 100 sheet 170G Gmund best paper.....still way too wet!

 

Just that day.............my Clairefontaine Triomphe and Rhodia 90g came in....those two papers tamed that ink and nib combo.

Could be the Rhodia is a tad better...but I've not set some time aside to run all my inked pens...and I have more inked right now than ever before.

 

I am very, very OCD on feathering or woolly lines....I use a honking big magnifying glass....1 1/4th inch/2.7cm thick..............and on those two papers there was a slight very unexpected woolly line.

I have condemned papers to the printer for a woolly line.

 

There is no perfect nib, paper nor ink.............there is perfection, where any change ruins it.

I have or will have later today when I ink my two new pens.....22 inks to run across them, to see which inks and nibs the Triomphe and Rhodia do best on.

No Perfect Paper......

Edited June 16, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Buzz_130]

More than the pen. Take a cheap piece of copy paper with the most exquisite ink and broadest nib, and you'll end up with a glob of ink spiderwebbing across the paper. Hardly shading.

 

As with most things in life, results are influenced by more than one variable. Pen, paper, ink, and writer make the difference. If you short change on of the variables, then you shouldn't be surprised if you get substandard results.

 

Buzz

[pajaro]

So, that's what shading is. I have always tried to avoid it. I thought it looked sloppy. Who knew?

[minddance]

Hand oils - on paper and/or on nib can produce shading too. I dislike 2-tone 'shadings' but I welcome tonal variations that are smoothly gradated. Smoothly gradated variations can be difficult to achieve. 2 tone shadings, to me, looks like a spoilt roller ball pen and very messy.

 

OP's picture examples are what I dislike, it looks like either: uneven contact with paper, or poorly finished nib tipping, or uneven pressure applied while writing, or writing angle that wasn't kept consistant (ever-changing vectors), or watered down ink, or flow problem, or a combination of the above.

 

I understand some people love it and think this is how fountain pens ought to write but not me.

Edited June 16, 2018 by minddance

[TheDutchGuy]

Many different perspectives, thanks for sharing.

 

Hand oils - on paper and/or on nib can produce shading too.

Definitely.

 

OP's picture examples are what I dislike

That was a brand new pen that I had flushed several times, but obviously there were still oils or residues present in the pen that caused uneven flow. The pen is not intended to write like that and the effect disappeared after a few refills. I added that photo to show that the pen caused it, not the ink.

 

I welcome tonal variations that are smoothly gradated. Smoothly gradated variations can be difficult to achieve.

Indeed. I haven't found a recipe for that yet. Edited June 16, 2018 by TheDutchGuy

[Bo Bo Olson]

It is Not Uneven Flow from the nib that causes shading, but ink drying and being absorbed at different rates sitting up on good to better paper. Where the letter is thicker, drying is slower.

One of the reasons why EF and XXF nibs don't shade is the ink line is too thin, so dries faster.

 

Poor or normal 80g copy paper doesn't shade...the ink don't sit up one it. (Rhodia 80 is not 'normal' copy paper but a paper with good sizing/coating, that lets the ink sit up on the paper.)

 

Ink Jet Paper is very poor paper that feathers and will never shade, in the fountain pen ink is absorbed way too fast....so causing feathering.

 

 

Shading is two tones of ink in the same letter, caused by uneven drying of the ink, sitting on top of good to better paper.

The ink can not be supersaturated. Herbin, 4001 Pelikan, R&K and MB inks shade well. There are others, that have shading inks, including DA, some Noodlers, some Diamine.

I know nothing about Japanese inks but if Tomo-something paper shades well, there must be Japanese inks that shade well.

 

Shading as "Sloppy."..............

 

Well, I find vivid monotone supersaturated inks boring.

 

I'm way behind the power curve with sheen inks that seemed to have popped up some 4 years ago. I do have two glitter inks....more than likely get more.........I am of course after them that also Shade.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[minddance]

My experience is that pen, paper, ink, hand all matter in producing different looks and tonal intensity of inks.

 

I once lent my fountain pen, a steel nib Pelikano to a few friends, they wrote with the same ink, pen and paper and produced vastly different results with a most pedestrian Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue. Some found the same pen very dry (myself), some found it too wet. One of then wrote forever at least 2shades darker than me, one of them forever shades, I produced a rather consistently light look with very minimal pooling of ink (minimal shading) at the end of every stroke and at some points of inflection.

 

I am not suggesting that Pelikano or 4001 Royal Blue are expressive or that malleable. It is the hand that intrigued me. Pelikano has a stiff and cold steel nib, 4001 is that 'boring' purplish blue ink. But still, nuances can occur.

 

I guess this is where the fun lies with fountain pens Knowing exactly what I want, what to want, what can be wanted and how to get it.

Edited June 16, 2018 by minddance

[pajaro]

It is Not Uneven Flow from the nib that causes shading, but ink drying and being absorbed at different rates sitting up on good to better paper. Where the letter is thicker, drying is slower.

One of the reasons why EF and XXF nibs don't shade is the ink line is too thin, so dries faster.

 

Poor or normal 80g copy paper doesn't shade...the ink don't sit up one it. (Rhodia 80 is not 'normal' copy paper but a paper with good sizing/coating, that lets the ink sit up on the paper.)

 

Ink Jet Paper is very poor paper that feathers and will never shade, in the fountain pen ink is absorbed way too fast....so causing feathering.

 

 

Shading is two tones of ink in the same letter, caused by uneven drying of the ink, sitting on top of good to better paper.

The ink can not be supersaturated. Herbin, 4001 Pelikan, R&K and MB inks shade well. There are others, that have shading inks, including DA, some Noodlers, some Diamine.

I know nothing about Japanese inks but if Tomo-something paper shades well, there must be Japanese inks that shade well.

 

Shading as "Sloppy."..............

 

Well, I find vivid monotone supersaturated inks boring.

 

I'm way behind the power curve with sheen inks that seemed to have popped up some 4 years ago. I do have two glitter inks....more than likely get more.........I am of course after them that also Shade.

 

Thank you for clearing up what shading is. I thought it was sloppy, but wasn't aware that it was acceptable and even desirable. I just thought that there was something wrong with the pen that would reflect poorly on me. Of course, I had looked upon the pen as a conveyor of information rather than as an instrument to create art. I suppose creativity is more valued here. This shading is more valuable to me in sketching for watercolor, where gradation is valued. The ink often disappears into the wash.

Edited June 16, 2018 by pajaro

[TheDutchGuy]

It is Not Uneven Flow from the nib that causes shading, but ink drying and being absorbed at different rates sitting up on good to better paper.

That's an interesting thought, thanks for sharing it. Not sure if I agree or not. When I write the letter P, I first do the downstroke. The upper half of the downstroke gets less ink than the bottom half, this is something I can see happening before my eyes. Then some the ink flows back from the bottom to the upper half (this is clearly visible with the naked eye), with the result that about 1/4th of the height of the downstroke has a paler colour. So it starts with the pen, though I agree that the way I write might be a big factor as well. After the pen completes the downstroke, it's the combination of ink and paper that determines the result.