Advice For Noobs I Wish I'd Had

[Shannon]

Be open to NOT liking a pen -- even if it's popular with the masses.

 

Don't be afraid to divest yourself of pens that don't make you happy anymore. We've all purchased pens -- especially when starting out -- for one reason or another, then finding that your tastes have changed, become more refined, collections have narrowed, whatever. Move the pens along to make space (and $$) for something that works.

 

That said, don't be afraid of trying new things. And if you don't like them, see above advice.

[inkstainedruth]

Interesting thread. Going through point by point (without quoting the entire post, to save bandwidth).

I'll agree with #1. I have some really nice inexpensive pens (including a few decent cheapie Chinese pens). I am a complete sucker for Parker Vectors (but would I want to use one of them to write the Great American Novel? No -- too skinny). And in March I picked up a 1980s era Pelikano for $5 US and it's a great little pen.

#2 -- Disagree here. For some people inexpensive is good enough. Over the weekend I ran across several pen people (some of whom I knew liked FPs, like the woman who has about 6 Safaris/al-Stars/LX pens at this point, but some I had never met before). And one woman was gleefully showing me her Hero 448, which she likes a whole lot.

#3 -- Another person who agrees with Kelly G. I've gotten some great deals on vintage pens, even on eBay, and even when factoring in the cost of repairs. But then, I got excellent advice from FPN member OcalaFLGuy when I decided I wanted a Parker 51 -- Bruce gave me a list of question to ask sellers about condition, and helped scope out what prices a specific pen *should* go for price wise, and was generally extremely helpful to someone who was a relative noob.

#4 -- Somewhat agree. Unless you're going to be doing Spencerian calligraphy on a regular basis, the only reason to have any flex or semi-flex nibs is if you want some variety. Me, I get a lot of variety of line from italic and oblique nibs, but I like having a range of nibs to play with (and for several years I was the "Give me an F nib!" school).

#5 -- Absolutely true. There's a guy in my pen club who won't get a pen like a Parker 51 because he doesn't like hooded nibs. There's another guy who couldn't understand why I was just swooning over his MB 146. And there's people who go "Why would you POSSIBLY want a Parker 61 unless you get one with a replacement converter?" Not to be confused with the people who can't understand why I would never buy a pen with an urushi finish (I've been accused of fear-mongering! But I KNOW how allergic to poison ivy I am ).

#6 -- Yeah, sadly trolls are everywhere. Even here (although this is way better than some places). And those trolls are of both varieties: the "How can you like X brand/model?" ones and "How can you NOT like X brand/model?" types. And unfortunately, critical analysis seems to be a skill no longer taught.

#7 -- True. Larger pens are too heavy for me; some people have trouble with small pens, or with pens that have a step down to the section. And being able to try before buying meant that I got a Pilot Metropolitan with an M nib (the F nib was scratchy). Unfortunately, a lot of people don't have the option of a local store to try pens out. And some pens are really expensive geegaws. There are people out there who will just put such pens in a display case but I'm a user -- if a pen isn't comfortable to write with (or just ugly IMO) I'm not buying it. No matter how "prestigious" a brand. OTOH, I didn't think twice about the most expensive pens I own: a 1990s era Pelikan M400 and a couple of modern M405s; but I wouldn't want a larger pen (even an M600 can be heavy for me).

#8 -- Yup. Absolutely this. People drool over the Vacumatic Golden Web pens but I personally think they're butt-ugly and would rather have my somewhat less exotic Red Shadow Wave lockdown filler.

#9 -- True. And people probably look askance at me for liking some second and third tier brands.

#10 -- Nakayas are amongst the brands that I just look at. Have no interest in getting one (even if I could afford the price tag). Ditto for Montblanc; I actually saw a vintage one on eBay a couple of years ago that I thought was attractive... until I saw the price tag. And sometimes I see odd brands in antiques stores and walk away because I just don't know enough to know if it's a good deal or not.

#11 -- Somewhat true. But people get more bent out of shape when the pen is expensive (yet another reason why I'm such a cheapskate... ).

#12 -- Somewhat agree. I had a pen that the nib skipped no matter what ink I put in it. A $20 tweak by a nibmeister fixed it. Sadly, I then lost the pen....

#13 -- Somewhat true. And in the case of vintage pens, often very true. I dropped out of the bidding on a Plum Demi Parker 51 on eBay several years ago, but watched the end of the auction just to see how it would go. The hammer went down at something like $102 US. And I thought "Yikes! I'll never be able to afford one...." A month later? A user grade one came up and I bid on it and got it for less than my intermediated maximum (including shipping). And for less than for the price at which I'd dropped out on the previous one.... Go figure.

 

Also, what PatientType said is true -- the benchmark for what is "expensive" is not a fixed point. Six years ago if anyone had said I'd be paying more than about $50 for a pen I would have laughed in that person's face. That changed when I started buying vintage pens. And Pelikans (although I did get an M100 on eBay for under $50 a few years ago, and it's got a 1 mm stub nib -- does great with shimmer inks ).

Of course I ALSO thought I'd end up with maybe fifty pens at most.... And truthfully, I only regret a few of those purchases. Because I learned things every time. I learned I really like piston fillers. I learned I really like F nibs for the most part (but OB nibs do have their uses, too). I learned what constitutes "too heavy" for me (which is anything heavier than a TWSBI 580-AL -- and I forced myself to get used to that pen because I like it). I learned that if you lose out on an auction there's likely (although this is NOT a 100% given) to be another pen just like it -- or maybe even a better one. I learned that the Morrison gold-filigree overlay ring top is a PITA to fill if the ink bottle is not filled up to the top; and that the pen likes to unscrew itself from the cap when I have it on the lanyard (but boy -- is it pretty). I learned to do a better job of due diligence in looking at photos of eBay listings (and also to not necessarily believe what a seller told another potential bidder... ).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[alexwi]

Hi,

 

To #7, I would add a few things:

 

If you do have the possibility to go to a store and try out a pen (or a dozen of them), bring your own paper. That is, the paper that you're most likely to use day in and day out. The test pads at stores are of such quality, that the writing experience, with pretty much any pen you test, will range from more wonderful to less wonderful, and it is possible thar you'll get a nasty surprise once you get home and start using a pen that you expected to be awesome. History's not written on Rhodia, but rather on cheap copy paper.

 

Once you picked a particular model, ask to test one or two more of the same. You might find variations. Also, don't be afraid of buying the display model if that's the one that feels best for you. I couldn't be happier about having done this once and, likewise, there was one occasion when I didn't and should have (and then couldn't, because it was at a pen show).

 

Alex

[raggs]

I basically agree with many of your points but I would caution that lists such as these can take some of the fun out of the exploration; which is fun as long as you keep a light attitude toward the process. If you make a mistake, learn from it and move on. My best advice is have fun with it all, but learn through the process.

 

I do disagree with point 3. There is nothing to fear with vintage pens, you just need to do some basic research before buying a particular pen. Many, if not most, of my best writing pens are vintage pens. I would agree that buying only 3rd tier pens will yield poorer results than buying the top vintage brands. And buying at the top of the vintage market will yield good pens but they won't write any better than the same make of pens with less cachet.

As a newbie, my only concern with this is - the research is often contradictory, but even more important - what ARE the top vintage brands? Where does one go to buy them? etc, etc, For us true newbies who don't have even an inkling (honestly, I do have somewhat of an idea of the answers to these questions - but I didn't a couple of months ago, and I still don't know who to buy from).

I think for absolutely new newbies - it's good advice. At least it was for me, when someone gave it to me!

I, too, agree with Kelly. But for the inexperienced it's worth the extra money to buy a restored pen from an established seller, and probably stay with the standards like Parker, Sheaffer, Esterbrook, etc.

Once again, my main problem is knowing who the established sellers are for vintage. I'll research more and figure it out, but some people will just jump in. I feel like right now I know just enough to be dangerous, lol.

[pajaro]

#5 -- Absolutely true. There's a guy in my pen club who won't get a pen like a Parker 51 because he doesn't like hooded nibs. There's another guy who couldn't understand why I was just swooning over his MB 146. And there's people who go "Why would you POSSIBLY want a Parker 61 unless you get one with a replacement converter?" Not to be confused with the people who can't understand why I would never buy a pen with an urushi finish (I've been accused of fear-mongering! But I KNOW how allergic to poison ivy I am ).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

This must be the first time I have read that someone else stays away from urushi in pens because of poison ivy. When I found out certain pens had urushi in them, I dumped them, same reason.

[MuddyWaters]

I would add to be very careful with online reviewers, who, even the reputable ones, do not give sufficiently critical reviews of pens. Their stated opinions are mostly wishy washy and that is because they don't want to anger their suppliers. They rarely will do a straight up message of which pens they will keep or sell and why.

 

And following this, there are a lot of reviews here of pens that are too complacent, all of which feeds further purchases and a habit of buying pens.

[MKeith]

Some very good points Uncial

[DrDebG]

Thank you, Uncial, for your post! I really appreciate your intent.

 

While we all have different opinions, I believe your intent is to help those getting started. That intent should be commended.

 

The only thing that I would like to add is this. Sometimes those who are getting into a "hobby" are not as open to advice as you might think. I know when I got back into fountain pens, I honestly thought "It's a pen. What's the big deal?". Some say ignorance is bliss. And for those who really don't want advice, well . . . their pitfalls are their own fault.

 

Because of my own ignorance - and I wasn't open to advice - I made some huge mistakes, particularly trying to get into vintage pens. Most of what I purchased were broken and unusable, but I didn't know that. I wrote with misaligned nibs and feeds, broken sections, and other mishaps for about a year. I almost gave up at that time.

 

Then, I found FPN, and became a student. I learned the vocabulary, and began to learn what I should look for. From there, I visited as many "brick and mortar" stores to see and feel. I didn't buy just yet. I just looked and learned. I purchased a Lamy Safari and spent months just writing with that one pen. I then bought another lower priced (not cheapie) pen and was content just writing with it for several more months. I was beginning to learn what I liked. I bought a Lamy Al-Star with a stub nib, and feel in love with line variation. Again, I enjoyed it with my other 2 pens for several months before purchasing another pen.

 

Several years earlier, my husband had purchased a couple Pilot Vanishing Points. They did not write well at all, and had been languishing in a drawer. My education helped me realize that they just needed a professional adjustment or two. So, rather than purchase another pen, I sent them off to Mike Masuyama. He did a superb job with them.

 

But since I worked sometimes in dry, dusty and dirty places, I didn't want to take my FPs with me. I ended up buying 4 "cheapies" for that purpose.

 

"What happened to all of the vintage pens that you bought?" Well, they are resting in a cozy drawer, waiting for the next time I go to a pen show, where they will be inspected by a "master" who can tell me if they are beyond salvage or not.

 

So, what I have learned through my pitfalls? Humility. I ask lots of questions now and appreciate those who answer. I will continue to acquire pens, but very slowly, and only after a lot of research and self-discipline.

[inkstainedruth]

 

This must be the first time I have read that someone else stays away from urushi in pens because of poison ivy. When I found out certain pens had urushi in them, I dumped them, same reason.

 

Well, I was somewhat dubious about the concept of urushi lacquer as a finish (especially having once read an article about some archaeologist getting a reaction from a 5000 year old laquer box), and then several years ago read a thread in which someone said "I couldn't figure out why I kept getting a rash on my chin...." and then figured out that he/she was scratching with the end of a maki-e pen. And that settled it for me. They're beautiful pens. But I'm not knowingly touching one with a ten foot pole.... The last time I had poison ivy it lasted 6 weeks and took 3 runs of steroids to knock out because it went systemic.

If I realize I've come in contact and can get it washed off my skin in under 30 minutes of exposure I'm *probably* okay. But I see no reason to tempt fate.... And I did NOT appreciate the person in another thread who accused me of "fear-mongering".... That person may not be as allergic to the stuff as I am (I had a friend in college who said he deliberately rolled around in a patch of it while at a Boy Scout camp because he was immune; I, on the other hand, am seriously NOT immune...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[catbert]

 

Well, I was somewhat dubious about the concept of urushi lacquer as a finish (especially having once read an article about some archaeologist getting a reaction from a 5000 year old laquer box), and then several years ago read a thread in which someone said "I couldn't figure out why I kept getting a rash on my chin...." and then figured out that he/she was scratching with the end of a maki-e pen. And that settled it for me. They're beautiful pens. But I'm not knowingly touching one with a ten foot pole.... The last time I had poison ivy it lasted 6 weeks and took 3 runs of steroids to knock out because it went systemic.

If I realize I've come in contact and can get it washed off my skin in under 30 minutes of exposure I'm *probably* okay. But I see no reason to tempt fate.... And I did NOT appreciate the person in another thread who accused me of "fear-mongering".... That person may not be as allergic to the stuff as I am (I had a friend in college who said he deliberately rolled around in a patch of it while at a Boy Scout camp because he was immune; I, on the other hand, am seriously NOT immune...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Figboot (David Parker) and Jonathon Brooks discuss the perils of urushi for poison ivy sufferers around 32 minutes into this interview.

[deependra]

Hi all. This is my first post other than on the hello thread so I guess it makes me a newbie. I was interested by the dont buy too much (bleep) warning. Over the weekend I bought a job lot of 12 pens described as Chinese, Indian and Noodlers mix on eBay for £8 ($10) inc p+p, and eight 2.5ml samples of inks of different brands for about the same money. This seemed a good way of going from one pen writing in one colour to loads of different pens writing in loads of different colours. Im looking forward to trying out different types of nibs and filling systems. I expect several of them wont work but thats ok because I can pull them apart and try to see why. At some point in the future I may well start saving up to buy a very expensive pen, but I want to enjoy the cheaper ones first.

That makes you an experienced Newbie. You almost mentioned every regret that I have faced. Thanks

[amk]

This is an interesting thread! I think I'd take issue with the warning about vintage pens. Parker Slimfold, 45 or 65, and to a slightly lesser extent 51, and Pelikan 100 or 400, are pens that very often just take a quick flush and are ready to go. There are lots of them about, too. And if you're a tinkerer, vintage pens are fun.

 

Cheapies can be fun to take apart or try nib grinding. Again, if you're a tinkerer - so YMMV, I take Pilot V-pens or cheap Indian pens where I'm going to be working on the road. (Some people who know my penchant for lovely colourful FPs are surprised I don't have my Pink Pelikan or my Platinum 3776 Lilas with me...)

 

The big thing is it will take time for most people to find out what they really love about this hobby and what pens they are going to fall in love with. You could become a Lamy Safari completist, a Swan-merchant like Cob, you might find a particular love of demonstrators (or hate them), metal pens (or hate them), Montblanc (or hate the brand).... I'd just advise two big things that make life better in the hobby.

 

One is patience.

 

The other is tolerance of others' foibles.

[bobje]

Uncial, you create a thoughtful and fresh discussion, and I agree with you on all points. To these I would add one piece of advice given to me early on by Randal6393. He asked me what I planned to do with my pens. Fountain pens are tools, and their use in handwriting and calligraphy provides some of their greatest joys.

[Tseg]

 

 

The big thing is it will take time for most people to find out what they really love about this hobby and what pens they are going to fall in love with.

 

I'm not sure of all the pen enthusiast 'categories' but for me I landed on writing experience, writing comfort, line output and finally pen appearance, in that order, and a function of all. Unfortunately, 3 of 4 I can't really decide until pen is finally in hand. When a pen can get into 'the zone' or its sweet spot and feel like it is writing on air I am in heaven... then after several pages of writing I can assess how comfortable the pen is in hand, has it just melted into my hand, no steps or threads digging into my finger, etc... then is the writing, the line, controlled and consistent. Any type of skipping or hard starting, even if due to a tiny sweet spot that I cannot find easily, dings my perception of the pen. Finally, the pen aesthetics come into play. There are other aspects that I don't consider but you may want to, like ease of cleaning a particular pen, filling mechanism (nice to know, but I really have no preference), pen history, collectability, etc...

 

With the above said, if a newbie does enough homework, you tube research, etc... on a select pen for long enough I would say the conclusions conveyed by reviewers collectively tend to paint a pretty clear picture of even the nuanced attributes of a pen.

 

In summary, my advice to any noob is put in several hours at least of research before puling the trigger on any pen, including inexpensive pens, even if you are seeing them at a pen store or show and understand what is most important to you in the pen experience and do your best to match that all up and you greatly reduce the odds of acquiring a disappointing pen. Early on you may not be 100% sure of what is most important to you, but it will probably be directionally correct.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Tseg

[truthpil]

Thanks so much, Uncial, for this excellent post. Oh how I wish I had read something like this even a year ago, let alone five years ago when I first started down this path!!!

 

I agree 100% with every one of your points.

 

Regarding #3, I would add that another reason noobs should steer clear from vintage pens at the beginning is because a novice may simply ruin them out of sheer ignorance, even if he or she gets a great one on the first try. For example, I almost sprung the tines on my Wahl "Wet Noodle" on the first day by making the nib do insane acrobatics because I was using it the way I had become accustomed to with Noodler's "flex" nibs. Someone should definitely be beyond the noob phase if they decide to go down the vintage trail. Personally, I'd rather have one functioning vintage Osmia, Pelikan, Soennecken, or Waterman than a hundred new Viscontis or Montblancs, but that's just because of the style and feel of writing I prefer. You need to spend some time in the hobby before you can know what you're looking for in the vintage world.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

I think it's very tempting when you get started to see lots of interesting pens and want to have them all. It's more important in my mind to figure out what you want and search for the pen that makes you happy. When you get your first pen, write with it a lot. Do you want something thinner? Does the grip have a strange and uncomfortable shape? Do you like the filling system you have? Does it balance the way you want? How do you like your nibs and how do you like it to write? Then for your next pen look for something that is closer to what you think you are looking for.

 

Also, don't dismiss steel nibs, especially good, high quality steel nibs. I discovered after some time that my favourite nib material is steel. It has a certain response to it that I really enjoy. The only thing I don't like about steel nibs is that they are a little bit more maintenance than gold nibs in that they can corrode. This is rare though, and as long as you clean your pen before storing it, you likely will not have any problems whatsoever. In any case, my favourite nibs are all stainless steel. Most of my pens have gold nibs though. I only like particular steel nibs slightly more. My favourite nib of all time is a Pilot Myu 90 fine nib.

 

Flex isn't for everyone or every situation. I really love stiff nibs although I can appreciate a good flex nib.

 

While I keep stubs and italics around and they are very fun, I really enjoy a good ball-pointed nib.

 

Ask a lot of questions and try many different pens. Don't be afraid to let go of pens you don't enjoy anymore once you figure out what you really love to use.

 

Dillon

[praxim]

The first pen I bought when I revived my interest in fountain pens was thirty years old, fully operational. I added three brand new pens then within two months of the first had bought pens 80-90 years old, re-saccing them and adjusting tines on one (the latter task taking months by the time I had learned enough to get it right).

 

I was able to do these things without damaging anything because I read and learned from a resource of which you may have heard: FPN.

 

Today I have over 80% vintage or non-contemporary pens (17-97 years old). I will not discourage any person new to the hobby from getting into vintage pens as soon as they please. The question is their willingness to learn and to be patient, or affording professional pen care. If they enjoy the writing experience and can care for the pen, there is no impediment.

[Drawing61]

Uncial thank you. You certainly elicited a variety of informed opinions which I very much enjoyed reading. On your point of newbie advice I take slight exception. When I started accumulating fountain pens I made some bad choices (Nakaya not among them) but every new pen I held in my hand I loved for awhile. Advice from someone who knows better is always valuable but learning from experience is always more fun, and sometimes more painful.

[mattiey]

13. Resist temptation! It is easy to fall into the trap of deciding to save up a few years for a particular pen that is quite expensive and cave in and buy something considerably cheaper because you lack the patience and discipline. Don't! You will always hanker.

 

I fell victim to this real bad when I first got into the hobby. I discovered fountain pens when I was visiting family in China, where stationery stores have boundless quantities of inexpensive fountain pens. The experience of writing with a nib was so captivating that I bought up dozens of pens without really thinking, only to later realize that none of them really held my interest in the long term. Adding to your point, I'd say that taking time before making a purchase is not just about saving up, but also about doing the research and being sure that the pen you're about to buy is the pen that you want.

 

My newest hobby is watches, and I'm limiting myself to one watch a year. This way, I have to make every purchase count!

[Uncial]

Uncial thank you. You certainly elicited a variety of informed opinions which I very much enjoyed reading. On your point of newbie advice I take slight exception. When I started accumulating fountain pens I made some bad choices (Nakaya not among them) but every new pen I held in my hand I loved for awhile. Advice from someone who knows better is always valuable but learning from experience is always more fun, and sometimes more painful.

 

 

I'm fairly certain I couldn't claim to know better, but it's good to open discussion and hear peoples' experiences. For me that's what FPN is all about and I think it's important to get the spectrum even when it means seeing our favourite pens under the microscope of anothers' criticism. This hobby engenders a certain obsessiveness so naturally when we see our favourites critiqued we feel like someone is launching an attack on our own children....well, maybe not quite, but almost! I agree with your other point that every pen we hold in our hand we love for a while. While I was typing this I was thinking of those pens that I bought and loved at the time, but over the course of two or three years began to reveal certain things that made me fall out of love with them. I wasn't sure I could add that experience (I wasn't quite sure how to express it) to this list because it was still a good experience even after I sold them. It helped me really pin point what I enjoyed about writing and as you say, was definitely part of the fun and learning aspect.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Uncial