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A Somewhat Critical View Of The Pilot Custom 823

pilot custom 823

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#1 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:01

(For those that quickly want to know how I feel about this pen: scroll to the last paragraph. If you have a few minutes and would like to read about my journey, read on!)

Compared to things like violins, pianos, paintings, vintage cars or yaghts, fountain pens make for a relatively cheap hobby. The process of discovery is addictive, but if you define certain limits for yourself then there's a lot of fun to be had for relatively small amounts of money.

For me, the fun is in writing, in how a pen feels to me. A pen that makes me want to write, that screams "pick me up!" every time I walk by, that's what it's about for me. A secondary appeal is craftsmanship, how well a pen is designed and made. This is not to be confused with expense: I am just as pleased with the incredible amount of quality Pilot can deliver for 20 bucks in the form of the Metropolitan, then I am with the lasting durability of a Montblanc 146.

The danger with a hobby like this, is the ever-lurking thought that there's a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow somewhere, a new experience that's just around the corner, something special that's available to those-in-the-know and which is just waiting for you to discover it. This is the feeling that I had regarding Pilot pens in the 150 to 250 euro price range. This feeling was fueled by near-unanimous praise by fountain pen lovers, especially for the Custom 823. More than perhaps any other pen on the market, this pen seems to be able to make pen friends close ranks. This sparked my curiosity, but alas, they can't be found in stores in Europe, either brick & mortar or online. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

That gave me the itch. Deep-down I knew that pens are very very personal, that my own preferences do not necessarily reflect those of the majority, and that I really needed to stick to my modus operandi of going out to try pens before I buy. But there was this itch. This grail pen that everybody raves about and makes even Matt from the Pen Habit forget that it's basically a cigar. And I just couldn't get my hands on it.

What I *could* get, was a Metropolitan. I found a batch of those in a store and bought a M. Obviously at that price point Pilot hit it out of the park with that pen. It's very enjoyable to write with. So I thought: "if a 20 euro Pilot is already *this* good, just imagine what a Custom 823 must be like!". Plus, I wanted to add a vac filler to my little herd. So I ordered one from Japan.

I agonized over the nib choice. My fav pens are two Sailors with 14k H-M nibs and a MB 146 with a vintage EF nib (which is nothing like an EF on paper). After reading tons of posts on FPN, I decided to go for a F. The total price of the pen, including import duty, was around 250 euros, which I think is a significant amount of money to pay for a pen. My only pen which cost more is my old, used MB146 EF which I bought from a collector. So expectations were high.

5F46A71F-CD2C-42E1-8DE8-683F638FCF5E.jpeg

The pen arrived this week and I've used it intensively over several days and compared it to my other pens. And, welllll.... I have doubts.

The tines were slightly misaligned and there were some skipping issues, which is not good, but thankfully I know how to fix that and it was solved within minutes. But these shortcomings surprised me. The vac mechanism only works if the pen is strictly straight-up; if you have a shallow ink bottle then you need to find another one that will allow you to fill this pen. The stopper only opens when the filial knob is completely unscrewed (sorry, two or three turns just doesn't do it). From an ergonomic point of view, I love it. Precisely the right format for my hand, fits like a glove, without the need to post the cap. Cosmetically, I like the design a lot. Very handsome pen.

Then, the nib. I'd learned from FPN that Pilot nibs are not as fine as those from Platinum and Sailor, meaning a Pilot M is more like a Western M whereas a Sailor M is more like a Western F. This is exactly my experience with my own Metropolitan M. I wanted something like a Western F so I ordered a F and kept my fingers crossed.

4CA71585-BFB5-4F56-99E8-E55C9BF70FAA.jpeg

Well, this is nothing like a Western F. This is possibly even narrower than a Western EF. It's approaching needle-thin. I checked if it was indeed a and not an EF, but the pen is clearly labeled as a F.

The nib being this narrow offers me advantages as well as disadvantages and they sort of cancel out, leaving me feeling kind of flat about it.

On the plus side, I've discovered that it improves my handwriting, which I like a lot. Another plus is that ink lasts forever. It also rounds out my little collection, which ranges from a 1.1 mm stub via a Sheaffer that writes like a B and that MB146 nib (which is an architect nib offering B horizontal strokes and vertical F strokes) down to a typical M (the Metro) and a few Western F's. So it's not more of the same but really something new.

On the downside, I have three concerns.

First, the feel on paper. It's smooth and well made, but the fact remains that this nib has a very small contact area and obviously that's something you feel every time you write. It feels like a needle, for lack of a better comparison. It also feels stiff (a nail) even though it isn't: the tines move as I write, there is bounce, there is cusioning, but I cannot feel it (whereas I sure can feel it with my Sailors, the MB146 and the Sheaffer Targa).

Second, it's hard to write up-tempo with a needle-fine nib. Fast writing is tricky. The nib is unforgiving. Write rough, it'll feel and look rough. So when taking notes at work, I find myself using abbreviations etc. to keep up.

Third, and most important to me, is emotion. Writing with this pen lacks emotion. The exquisite feedback of my two Sailors offers me a sense of contentment and joy every time I pick one of them up. Both Sailors are very very different in how they feel and write, but both offer me that, each in its own sweet way. That little Metro also offers an emotion: fun. It's a fun little pen. Likewise, each of my pens offers me a certain emotion and for that I cherish them all. The Custom 823 is a high-quality writing machine but there's no emotion.

Perhaps it will grow on me. Perhaps if I had not already known Sailor, I would have loved the 823. Perhaps the emotion of the 823 will reveal itself over time and perhaps its value will be what I dislike about it now: it forces me to slow down, it tells me that writing should not be rushed.

Regarding ink: I'm a firm believer in starting a new pen with ink of the same brand. However.... regular Pilot ink bottles are literally unobtainable in Europe and their upscale Namiki Iroshizuku range is expensive. As an alternative, I chose Sailor Jentle Souten blue, another Japanese ink, and it's a very good match.

For those contemplating the purchase of this pen:
A-nib choice is crucial; do not order it unless you are very very sure which nib is right for you.
B-ditto regarding pen size; this is the largest pen in my little herd; small-handed people might find it too large.
C-do not expect pefection straight out of the box just because it is a Pilot Custom 823; as with most fountain pens these days, it might need some minor adjustment (mine did) and there might be minor shortcomings.
D-just because everybody else loves it doesn't mean that you will, too. Unless money is no object, when in doubt, wait until you can try one, even if that takes time. Use FPN to find someone near you that has one and do coffee together somewhere.

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Edited by TheDutchGuy, 08 June 2018 - 11:03.


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#2 Tas

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:24

It is easy, perhaps, to fall in love with a pen's reputation and to blindly follow that love no matter what.

 

I admire your honesty and thank you for sharing your experience.


My desire for an 823, as has my desire for many other pens, has wanned a little of late. However, in moments of weakness I still look at this clip and drool a little . . .

Until I hold one in my hands I will never know.


 


Edited by Tas, 08 June 2018 - 09:24.


#3 Sakura FP Gallery

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:24

Oh how we would like to carry the Pilot Custom 823 in Europe just to have people experience the nib, look and feel.


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#4 Uncial

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 11:02

I have wondered if Pilot's nibs follow Sailor (but only to a degree) in that a fine nib seems to be very fine (as in normal Japanese expectation) and the medium nib seems to be just that (Western sense of medium). This means that the step up from a fine nib to a medium nib is actually quite significant, much in the same way as Sailor's nibs which they have tried to correct with the M-F nib as a gap stop between the two extremes. 

 

What a shame though, that you got a duffer of a nib. I've heard of people getting somewhat spotty nibs on the Metro but I think this is the first time I've heard of anyone getting a poor 823 nib. I have one with a medium (that has a surprisingly thick line when writing) and a fine that is an FA adjusted nib for added flexibility (which is a very fine line). Both are extremely smooth and quite different from the characteristic feedback of Sailor nibs. 

 

Personally, I find the 823 close to perfection, but I have larger hands and prefer larger pens with smooth nibs. I find the balance when posted to be perfect and I love the filling system but what keeps it off perfection for me is cleaning the darned thing out. It is a complete and utter pain and I hate that it leaves moisture in the barrel, which is particularly annoying in the transparent models. 



#5 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 11:13

What a shame though, that you got a duffer of a nib. I've heard of people getting somewhat spotty nibs on the Metro but I think this is the first time I've heard of anyone getting a poor 823 nib.


^---I'd like to rectify this. I would *not* call this a poor nib. It needed some minor adjustment, which was disappointing, but to be honest a lot of expensive pens need nib adjustments. This was solved in minutes. My other quibbles with this nib are not criticisms but matters of personal preference. Based on online info, I expected a Pilot F to be wider than a Sailor/Platinum F. But mine isn't. It's a "typically Japanese F", which writes quite a bit narrower than a Western F. That a nib this fine can write this smoothly is a testament to Pilot's level of skill (same with Sailor), but unlike Sailor, the Pilot's smoothness is without feeling. The feedback (in so far as it's there) is a bit clinical.

#6 flyingpenman

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 23:05

I appreciate honest reviews with criticism -- most reviews are either gushing or filled with hate and disappointment. This has made a feel a bit better about delaying picking up an 823 in favor of a vintage pen and Franklin-Christoph at the Triangle Pen Show...

...though I still want one. And I'm a sucker for extra-fine nibs. :P
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#7 MYU

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 23:12

Very nice thorough review with objective sensibility.  No pen is perfect.  I was tempted to get this pen, but I opted to avoid the potential maintenance issues down the road with this vacuum filling mechanism. I'm surprised about the nib experience reported here... because the 845 has the same 15 size nib and mine writes beautifully.  It's a <B>, so maybe that has something to do with it -- larger contact area.  It does write a little closer to <M>, but I find that I get sufficient feedback.  Sailor nib comparisons are tricky, as it depends upon the nib design.  I own a number of "lesser" Sailor nibs (not from the 1911 family) and they perform about on par with Pilot.


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#8 Calabria

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 00:40

I like your focus on "emotion." I sometimes like a nib even though it's less than the Platonic idea of perfect, just because, somehow, it makes me feel good. Pilot nibs rarely do that. They (mine) are too perfect.
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#9 Duane Pandorf

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 00:43

I have two 823s and love both. I ordered both through from Tokyo Quill to get non standard nibs. The black smoke version came with the FA nib and the clear version with the Waverly nib. I also bought a 743 with soft fine nib to interchange with either of this bodies as I prefer some give in the nib.

I travel for work via air travel and that’s another reason I like about the filling system, capacity, and ability to close the main ink reservoir from the feed section.

Sorry your experience so far has not met your expectations.
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#10 Tseg

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 02:54

My 823 is my workhorse... my travel pen because I can lock down the reservoir when I fly.  My F nib is very fine by most standards, yet less fine than my Metropolitan fine.  Even so, I took two brass shims to the nib to open it more.  It gets a lot of use because I travel a lot but I rarely use it at home, because I agree, it is a pretty bland pen.  With that said, I am amazed how many people at work comment very postively on the attractiveness of the pen (I have the smoke version), with them seemingly finding it more attractive than I do.  I do find the nib springy, but a very tight spring.  While many are not, I'm a believer in "break-in", whether it is psychologocal or not.  I feel more postive about the pen a 1/2 year down the road than week 1.  Since I no longer use my Metropolitan (very uncomfortable step and narrow section) this is my thinnest nib I use.  Every time I pick it up I'm reminded it is a very comfortable pen for me.  Some shims and micro-mesh may get you to warm up to it a bit more.  I'm not taken aback by your first impressions.


Edited by Tseg, 09 June 2018 - 02:56.


#11 Oranges and Apples

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 03:38

...I opted to avoid the potential maintenance issues down the road with this vacuum filling mechanism...

 

This is the only thing that I do not like about the Pilot Custom 823. I actually use my Pilot Custom 743 more often than my 823, but it could possible be because the 743 has the Posting (PO) nib.



#12 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 07:30

Thanks for chiming in, everyone! I'll try to address some of your input.

I appreciate honest reviews with criticism

So do I, but criticism either needs to be objective or the writer should acknowledge that it's subjective. Especially with pens, it's very easy to make a subjective judgement that is perceived by others as objective. Also, please note that in the topic title I used the word "view" and not "review". This might seem trivial but it was a deliberate choice.

I opted to avoid the potential maintenance issues down the road with this vacuum filling mechanism

I didn't have a vac filler yet and almost everyone was positive about the 823, so I decided to add one to my little herd. I spent a lot of time deciding between the 743 and the 823. Now that I've used the vac filler a few times, I've noticed how hard it is to clean the pen and I am worried a bit about possible future maintenance. With hindsight, I probably should have chosen the 743 with a SM nib.

I like your focus on "emotion." I sometimes like a nib even though it's less than the Platonic idea of perfect, just because, somehow, it makes me feel good. Pilot nibs rarely do that. They (mine) are too perfect.

Thanks! Writing is emotion. After all one could use a laptop or iPad instead, which is much more practical, but one chooses to write longhand. I'd tried a few Pilot nibs before getting the 843. I liked the Metro nib enough to buy one on the spot, but I tried a couple of Vanishing Points and they were just as you said: too perfect, no feeling, no emotion.

I've found a fitting analogy of how my 823 nib feels to me. Consider writing on the first page of a fresh Rhodia Dotpad A5 notebook. Now consider writing on one of the last few pages. The hard surface of the table is manifesting itself through the last few sheets and it changes how the pen feels when writing. My 823 feels like there are 2 or 3 pages left between the pen and the table, even though the tines visibly move up and own as I write - and I write with a *very* light touch, anything lighter and the pen would start to skip.

I travel for work via air travel and that’s another reason I like about the filling system, capacity, and ability to close the main ink reservoir from the feed section.

My 823 is my workhorse... my travel pen because I can lock down the reservoir when I fly.

That's my former life :-). I used to spider hop across Europe every week with bimonthly long hauls to faraway places. That got old real fast. I discovered that gold/platinum award cards, priority lanes and tickly carpeted exec lounges don't make up for the hassle and time loss of frequent air travel. I gave it up and never looked back. But yes, going back on topic, the seal in the 823 is definitely convenient for air travel.

While many are not, I'm a believer in "break-in", whether it is psychologocal or not. I feel more postive about the pen a 1/2 year down the road than week 1.

Same here, my thoughts exactly. That's also why I used the word "view" and not "review" in the topic title. My view might change over time and it probably will. If it does, I will post it here and explain why.

#13 dapprman

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 09:31

I love my 823 and it's medium nib was a dream straight off - also I have no problems filling at an angle, which makes me wonder if you're just unlucky.  However you're not alone - track down the YouTube video of Stephen Bre Brown on his - he also had nib problems, but he got his when they were available in Europe (it's Pilot who's stopping them being sold here) but for an absolute silly price, making his issues worse.



#14 hari317

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 09:55

I have an Amber 823 with a B nib since 2009. I received the pen in trade from a dear FPN friend in Canada. I had lubed the seals on receipt ( I had made a post showing some pics at that time). The pen has not required any further intervention to date. So i think the filling system is well built and robust, but no third party parts are going to be available for future issues due to wear and tear.

The pen works flawlessly with Pilot ink. I have stoppage issues with some other inks.

Actually many on fpn have reported cracking issues and ink stoppage issues with the 823. Maybe they dont surface that easily in a search.

My eventual conclusion was that the 742 was the most optimum for me from cost, performance and long term wear and tear point of view.
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#15 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 11:35

he got his when they were available in Europe (it's Pilot who's stopping them being sold here) but for an absolute silly price

That's one of life's great mysteries, why a brand would pull a range of products out of a major market. Ditto for ink: basic Pilot ink is 100% unobtainable here. Odd.

However you're not alone - track down the YouTube video of Stephen Bre Brown on his - he also had nib problems

I just looked it up and watched it. Apparently at the time these pens cost 599 euros in Europe, which is madness. I paid 250 euros for it (including import duty) and that's 40 euros more than what I think the pen is worth. However, as mentioned in a previous post, I also believe in a "break-in period" and who knows? Four months from now I might consider 250 euros a bargain for this pen. We'll see. But nearly 600 euros is madness.

The pen works flawlessly with Pilot ink. I have stoppage issues with some other inks. Actually many on fpn have reported cracking issues and ink stoppage issues with the 823. Maybe they dont surface that easily in a search.

I wish I could use Pilot ink in it! Unobtainable. Sailor ink seems to work well in it, though. Cracking and stopping issues did not show up when I looked around on FPN prior to buying, but pretty much every major pen brand suffers from some degree of faulty products. That's not OK, but it seems inevitable.

Edited by TheDutchGuy, 09 June 2018 - 12:06.


#16 flyingpenman

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 12:23

So do I, but criticism either needs to be objective or the writer should acknowledge that it's subjective. Especially with pens, it's very easy to make a subjective judgement that is perceived by others as objective. Also, please note that in the topic title I used the word "view" and not "review". This might seem trivial but it was a deliberate choice.


My apologies! I found your views quite helpful, and appreciate your critical thoughts, subjective or objective alike.
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#17 dapprman

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 14:02

On the ink front, remembering mine is a medium nib, so potentially far more ink flow than on a fine or EF, it's very friendly ink wise - presently got Robert Oster Fire and Ice in it, and that I find on the dry side, but it also worked with no problems with Kyo-Noto Hisoku, which caused hard start problems in my gusher OMAS pens.

 

On Pilot ink - would have though P.W. Akkerman, Appelboom, LCdC, would all sell both regular and Iroshizuku inks (oddly enough the few UK shops I've just looked at no longer have the regular Pilot ink in aside from cartridge form, just Iroshizuku).



#18 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 14:34

My apologies!

No apology necessary, not at all :-) . I merely wished to point out that I didn't intend my ramblings as a review. Glad to hear that my musings are somewhat helpful. Thanks for the positive responses and for chiming in!

presently got Robert Oster Fire and Ice in it, and that I find on the dry side

That's a wonderful ink, there's always a bottle of that around in my family. But yes, it is a bit dry-ish. I fix that with a small drop of glycerine, which works wonders with this ink.

would have though P.W. Akkerman, Appelboom, LCdC, would all sell both regular and Iroshizuku inks

They all sell Iroshizuku, none sell regular Pilot ink. Not to be found in the UK. Not to be found on mainland Europe. Amazon UK shows up if you search for it, but those are imports from Japan. It's really odd. You can get Iroshizuku anywhere, you can get some Pilot pens such as the Metro and the VP in some stores, but you cannot get basic Pilot ink or the Custom xxx range.

Edited by TheDutchGuy, 09 June 2018 - 15:47.


#19 dapprman

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 16:37

Unless there's a new batch due out it does feel like Pilot are now only supplying Iroshizuku to the UK and Europe - I suppose it is what most people want.  For regular inks we still have Lamy, Pelikan 4001, Sheaffer Scrip, Wattermans, ... so perhaps they felt it was no longer needed and possibly just was not selling.



#20 TheDutchGuy

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 16:54

Perhaps... but it's odd. Lots of folks in Europe seem to want a Custom xxx but you can't get them. I watched that stephen brown vid, which was made when they were available in Europe, but at the staggering price of 599 euros. Which is more than twice the price in the US or Asia. Then instead of lowering the price, they just pulled it off the market.





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