Why Is Rhodia Paper Better Than Leuchtturm When They Are Both 80Gsm?

[TestTube]

Excuse my noobness, =)...

 

But, why is Rhodia paper better than Leuchtturm paper when they use 80g paper? (As in, Rhodia generally has less bleed-through and I've heard is more fountain pen friendly)

[praxim]

A vaguely technical answer is that two things of the same density need by no means be the same thing, even if the same type of thing.

 

I use Leuchtturm anyway. I may buy some Rhodia some day.

[TestTube]

A vaguely technical answer is that two things of the same density need by no means be the same thing, even if the same type of thing.

 

I use Leuchtturm anyway. I may buy some Rhodia some day.

 

What are the other things I should look out for in determining the quality of stationary?

[praxim]

How it writes for you when you try it. There are N threads on stationery. I was writing in a Leuchtturm journal when your post popped up so, as I said, I am not further fussed. I also use Apica notebooks, which I find great for small notebooks and probably better writing paper than the Leuchtturm. I have not the slightest idea what is its density.

[TestTube]

How it writes for you when you try it. There are N threads on stationery. I was writing in a Leuchtturm journal when your post popped up so, as I said, I am not further fussed. I also use Apica notebooks, which I find great for small notebooks and probably better writing paper than the Leuchtturm. I have not the slightest idea what is its density.

 

Do you get any bleed-through on your Leuchtturm? I have 2 Moleskines at the moment which have terrible bleed-through, even using an extra fine nib (although I bought those Moleskines before I realized how bad they are for fountain pens). I also have a Leuchtturm but I promised myself not to write in it until my handwriting is better and I have finished writing in both of these Moleskines.

 

Edit: I also have a Rhodia dot pad and some Clairefontaine Triomphe paper which both have absolutely no bleed-through unless I really go out of my way to get some (but out of all the possible A5(ish) notebooks the Leuchtturm looks aesthetically most pleasing to me so, I hope I can stick with them (Leuchtturm) with an extra fine nib with no bleed-through and just use those for the rest of my life. (And the Clairefontaine paper for writing letters)

Edited June 5, 2018 by TestTube

[Fatalpotato]

I am no paper expert of any sense, but for a rule of thumb, paper weight has very little correlation to actual fountain pen friendliness. No matter how heavy is the paper, if it is not properly coated to prevent rapid absorption, it will bleedthrough like crazy and all character of ink will be lost. A good example for this is the venerable moleskine paper and the tomoe River paper. Tr is only 50 gsm but is one of the best if not the best paper to write with on a fountain pen. I can't get into specifics of coating as I have no info on that, but there are actually quite few papers that are as fountain pen friendly as rhodia and tomoe River, and I would definitely recommend them to anyone with fp hobby. You can't imagine how much they improve the writing quality.

[praxim]

@testtube: to answer your last question, I do not notice much bleedthrough, nor could I say it is not there. As a recto writer in journals, I am less likely to notice it as a problem unless it is extreme.

 

I feel as though I am being of less help to you than I might wish. I encourage you to check some papers. Smaller samples, for example A6 notebooks, are inexpensive. Using a fine nib which is not wet should allow you quite a bit of leeway.

[Fatalpotato]

Testing with one's own pens are the gold standard to check paper quality Imho. But there are some diligent members of this network that have made some paper reviews as well, maybe those are not enough to place a judgment of purchase but can help at least to choose to where to start

[bogiesan]

Look up paper manufacturing on the web. It’s fascinating stuff, foundation o civilizations. The part of the process you’re interested is known as calendering: the finish coating, polish, or texture that is aplied at tHe end of the line.

[LizEF]

Excuse my noobness, =)...

 

But, why is Rhodia paper better than Leuchtturm paper when they use 80g paper? (As in, Rhodia generally has less bleed-through and I've heard is more fountain pen friendly)

 

As FatalPotato mentioned, it's the coating (often referred to as "sizing") of the paper. Rhodia is harder (more coated) than Leuchtturm1917 - you should be able to see and feel the difference. Rhodia keeps the ink on top of the page, Leuchtturm lets it soak in some.

 

Do you get any bleed-through on your Leuchtturm? I have 2 Moleskines at the moment which have terrible bleed-through, even using an extra fine nib (although I bought those Moleskines before I realized how bad they are for fountain pens). I also have a Leuchtturm but I promised myself not to write in it until my handwriting is better and I have finished writing in both of these Moleskines.

 

Edit: I also have a Rhodia dot pad and some Clairefontaine Triomphe paper which both have absolutely no bleed-through unless I really go out of my way to get some (but out of all the possible A5(ish) notebooks the Leuchtturm looks aesthetically most pleasing to me so, I hope I can stick with them (Leuchtturm) with an extra fine nib with no bleed-through and just use those for the rest of my life. (And the Clairefontaine paper for writing letters)

 

I don't recall getting bleed-through with Leuchtturm, but I only used Japanese fine and extra fine nibs in mine - and fineliner markers. Of the two, I prefer Rhodia dot pad paper, but that's me. I've never used Triomphe, but it's said to be (perhaps) the slickest paper out there. I do use Clairefontaine French ruled paper, but don't like the way inks behave on it as much as Rhodia. My two favorites are Rhodia and Tomoe River 68gsm.

 

As for notebooks, have you looked at the Rhodiarama? They might appeal as much as the Leuchtturm.

 

Long ago, I bought the pack of 7(?) paper samples (basically all mini notebooks) from Goulet Pens, and thought that was a good choice as it let me try out a variety and really see what I like / don't like. You might try that (doesn't have to be Goulet - just get a bunch of mini notebooks / notepads).

[TestTube]

Honestly, I would go with Rhodia notebooks all day and never look back if only it didn't have the Rhodia logo right on the front of it. I'm writing on this Rhodia dot pad I have right now and the writing experience is amazing. And the Clairefontaine Triomphe paper I have? My pen glides so smoothly across the page, and the end product is flawless. But the overall look of the Leuchtturm notebook is exactly what I would picture my "perfect notebook" to be aesthetically.

 

Fun fact: In 22 different colors (possibly more, that's what I could find), I write an average 11 words per line, 30 lines per page, 243 pages per notebook (not counting the 8 perforated pages), that's 1,764,180 words before I'd have to double up on a color. Which just so happens to also turn out to be about 22 average full length novels. =p

 

Now, if I could get the Leuchtturm look with Clairefontaine paper (or Rhodia, and yes I know they're both made by Clairefontaine), I (we) would all live happily ever after.

 

I COULD get something like that done, by a custom journal maker, but it would cost me an arm and a leg. Maybe I can somehow get over my OCD of the Rhodia label, or cover it with some beautiful title art on a sticker.

 

EDIT : As the above poster(s) mentioned, if you guys could keep throwing me out some more brands to take a look at, I would be grateful. Everywhere I look I see more of the same (Rhodia, Leuchtturm, Moleskine) generally and until a few hours ago my "stationary vocabulary" was limited to those 3 words.

 

Thanks ! =)

Edited June 5, 2018 by TestTube

[LizEF]

Honestly, I would go with Rhodia notebooks all day and never look back if only it didn't have the Rhodia logo right on the front of it. I'm writing on this Rhodia dot pad I have right now and the writing experience is amazing. And the Clairefontaine Triomphe paper I have? My pen glides so smoothly across the page, and the end product is flawless. But the overall look of the Leuchtturm notebook is exactly what I would picture my "perfect notebook" to be aesthetically.

 

Ah, got it. You might like Quo Vadis notebooks then (made with Clairefontaine paper) - but if you like the numbered pages and dual ribbons, then I'm not sure anything else has that. (I agree with you, BTW, the Leuchtturm format really is exceptional.)

 

That's the only other hardcover I can think of at the moment. But there could easily be more. Hopefully others will stop in.

[TestTube]

Yep, the non-labelled, soft cover. The dual ribbons, numbered pages, table of contents, color selection etc. Can't beat it.

 

I just sent GatzBcn a message on Etsy and asked for a quote on a similar type of notebook with Clairefontaine Triomphe paper. Inc ~100$ quote. =p

 

We'll see though. =)

[PaganArcher]

Using a fine or extra fine nib, and even the occasional BB, Leuchtturm1917 is my paper of choice. I've used all the big names and while I occasionally break out Tomoe River for correspondence with friends in far flung corners of the nine realms, I simply prefer Leuchtturm and its less refined texture. I dislike Rhodia and Clairefontaine because of their irritating smoothness. But I'm certainly in the minority there.

 

My suggestion would be to remove one of the perforated pages from the Leuchtturm that you have and test your pens and ink on that. Decide for yourself if the performance of the paper is to your liking, if you have not already done so.

[Fatalpotato]

A little out of topic but is there a retailer that sells rhodia paper in bulk, without notebooks or covers?

[JakobS]

I really don't think this is a question of better, because both notebooks are good quality, they just offer a different experience that one person may like over the other.

 

Leuchtturm notebooks are inherently useable to write in, true if you use very wet broad nibs you might see some bleed through and feathering, but these don't look great on Rhoda either as a concentrated pool of semi dry to dried ink. For everyday, practical writing both types of paper will record your words perfectly. One does so on a very smooth paper that reduces feathering and bleed through, but also can reduce the line of ink being written with, and the other is a more absorbent paper that reflects the actual line of the nib better, rarely feathers or bleeds through, but could be considered more toothy to those who think that is an important trait to them. Apples to Oranges, Prunes to Raisins, Ants to Beetles.....whatever comparison makes you happy....different not less....

[JakobS]

A little out of topic but is there a retailer that sells rhodia paper in bulk, without notebooks or covers?

 

Rhodia doesn't offer a loose leaf paper, though they get asked this a lot it seems: https://www.rhodiadrive.com/2017/08/09/loose-rhodia-paper/

Edited June 5, 2018 by JakobS

[Karmachanic]

 

 

EDIT : As the above poster(s) mentioned, if you guys could keep throwing me out some more brands to take a look at, I would be grateful. Everywhere I look I see more of the same (Rhodia, Leuchtturm, Moleskine) generally and until a few hours ago my "stationary vocabulary" was limited to those 3 words.

 

Thanks ! =)

 

Nanami Seven Seas. Gfeller Leather Cover

Taroko Enigma. They also have a leather cover available.

Allans Journal

Dingbats

Red N Black

[LizEF]

TestTube, don't know if it'll help (and it's limited to papers carried by Anderson Pens), but this playlist reviewing lots of papers and showing how they handle fountain pen ink might be of interest to you:

 

 

ETA: This is the first video in the playlist - should show you playlist navigation when loaded in YouTube.

Edited June 5, 2018 by LizEF

[Fatalpotato]

Rhodia doesn't offer a loose leaf paper, though they get asked this a lot it seems: https://www.rhodiadrive.com/2017/08/09/loose-rhodia-paper/

Shame Shame Shame