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Japanese Pen On Kickstarter


mke

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It's pretty much just what he has been doing for a long time and with no pocket clip it is a non-starter for me anyway.

 

My Website

 

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I really wonder how the quality of the Urushi will be? If the cheapest Nakaya go for nearly $800, how can they sell an Urushi for $400?

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I really wonder how the quality of the Urushi will be? If the cheapest Nakaya go for nearly $800, how can they sell an Urushi for $400?

Here's a Platinum Izumo for $425

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."

Oscar Wilde

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I've learned that big steps between barrel and section like the one on this pen and me don't get along.

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Urushi and Urushi are different worlds.

 

Especially as you don't know what Urushi they use for the coating. I have heard that even some Urushis are not real Urushis but lacquers containing some Urushi.

And do you know how many layers are coated in the case of Namiki, Nakaya, Platinum, others ?

And a well-known brand can get more money for the same quality than a less-known one.

 

Don't hesitate, if you like the pen, buy it. It costs just a little bit more than a resin pen.

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I really wonder how the quality of the Urushi will be? If the cheapest Nakaya go for nearly $800, how can they sell an Urushi for $400?

 

Well, another way of seeing this is: if a perfect urushi pen is worth "only" 400USD, how much exactly must be the profit for any over-400USD urushi pen? I currently own four Nakayas, in several urushi finishes, and in fact I can see no appreciable difference from Pilot, Platinum or, for this matter, Wancher. Bottomline: yes, I am in this kickstarter for all urushi finishes.

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Isn't Wancher an Indian brand?

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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Isn't Wancher an Indian brand?

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Nope it's Japanese - Engelke or something similar. This pen has been very well covered on here already back when the Kickstarter campaign was running.

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Yep, it's Engeika's house brand. He started off with the Silk Road Wancher inks (Ebine, Imari, Matcha, etc) and has slowly grown the product line.

Log on to his website (engeika.com) to see his standard line of pens.

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“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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Well, another way of seeing this is: if a perfect urushi pen is worth "only" 400USD, how much exactly must be the profit for any over-400USD urushi pen? I currently own four Nakayas, in several urushi finishes, and in fact I can see no appreciable difference from Pilot, Platinum or, for this matter, Wancher. Bottomline: yes, I am in this kickstarter for all urushi finishes.

 

I do not have a understanding of the Urushi and seeing from many review, it seems the Dream Pen (a bit weird to say) can possibly go head to head with Nakaya. Maybe the extra cost is because of the brand name maybe?

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> it seems the Dream Pen can possibly go head to head with Nakaya

 

Said by the reviewers? Which analysis method did they use to evaluate (and compare) the urushi coatings?

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Well, another way of seeing this is: if a perfect urushi pen is worth "only" 400USD, how much exactly must be the profit for any over-400USD urushi pen? I currently own four Nakayas, in several urushi finishes, and in fact I can see no appreciable difference from Pilot, Platinum or, for this matter, Wancher. Bottomline: yes, I am in this kickstarter for all urushi finishes.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/225116-how-much-should-someone-pay-for-an-urushi-pen/?p=2396378

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> it seems the Dream Pen can possibly go head to head with Nakaya

 

Said by the reviewers? Which analysis method did they use to evaluate (and compare) the urushi coatings?

 

https://www.wellappointeddesk.com/2018/01/kickstarter-wancher-true-urushi-fountain-pen-in-red/

 

https://www.penaddict.com/blog/2018/1/24/first-look-wancher-dream-pen

 

I do not know how they would compare in real life tho but according these 2 reviews it seems the Urushi is quite good, even great

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> I examined the exterior of the pen closely and saw no flaws in the finish. With no decoration, there would be no place to hide if there was a bubble or scratch or other flaw and there was none that I could see.

> Due to the lightweight quality of the urushi, even though the pen is the largest in my collection, it is certainly not the heaviest.

 

> I can see the craftsmanship that went into making it. The fit and finish of the pen is outstanding, and the urushi application is as good as any that I have seen with my admittedly untrained eyes.

 

As I thought - this is mainly talk without real information. How could they, they don't know. The makers usually will not tell you how many coatings are on that pen. Only on the Manupropria homepage, it is said that each pen has 30-50 layers. And the number of coating is corresponding to the time to produce and the money. You find interesting information here LINK and here LINK.

The only thing which you learn on these pages linked in the posting before is that the dream pen has no obvious flaws. That is already good. But you cannot use these reviews to make a comparison between a XYZ pen and this pen.

It looks good, if you like it, buy it. I would consider it too but I have just bought a vermillion Shibui from Manupropria.

Edited by mke
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Maybe I can give some information on urushi.

Traditionally Urushi works have been and still are not cheap.

Some urushi works take one or more years to complete and many working steps 30 to 100 are included.

 

The first time Europeans came to Japan was in 1543 (Tenmon 12, by the Japanese calendar). That's when the Portuguese landed on the island of Tanegashima. After that, Europeans began coming to Japan for many different reasons. It was about the same time that two important things were imported from Europe into Japan: rifles and Christianity.

 

The people who came to Japan in order to spread Christianity were missionaries sent by the Roman Catholic church. Have you ever heard of Louis Frois? He was a Portuguese man who studied deeply about Japan and greatly helped the expansion of Christianity. Naturally, he was interested in Japanese art and traditional crafts too. He especially liked the traditional Japanese craft of "maki-e."

 

The missionaries liked maki-e so much that they decided to use this technique to make things for their churches. They used maki-e for such things as picture frames for the portraits of Jesus and Mary and for bible stands. in order to sell them to Europeans, the traders had the maki-e craftspeople special-ordered a variety of Western-style (Namban Lacquerware) objects, such as chests of drawers and decorated boxes. They even had them make coffee cups, although the Japanese did not even drink coffee four-hundred years ago!

 

Already then it was all about money and the foreign dealers refused to pay the regular prices. So the Japanese lacquer community became creative and found ways to speed up and simplifie working process. One innovation was to use pig blood as a fundation instead of the traditional foundation that includes 6 to 7 working steps. The pig blood technique was originally invented in China for cheap everydays products like slippers and alike.

 

Later a technique called "Nuritate" was invented in Japan. In Nuritate "Shuai-Urushi" is used as a final coat. Shuai-urushi is clear or pigmented urushi mixed with Comphor oil to produce a glossy, shiny surface without polishing. With Nuritate 5 to 10 working steps could be skipped.

But Shuai-Urushi is weak due to the oil and was used for export ware and cheap prioducts in Japan.

 

Today in the urushi industry 10% urushi is mixed with 90% chemicals and sprayed on products

For "High-Class product they use 20% urushi and 80% chemicals and call it "Double-Urushi" (2倍漆)

 

In search engines you can find many patents also some of from Ryôsuke Namiki from the 1920s about simplified application of urushi on ebonite with resins and chemicals ....

 

Please note, that Japan can be compared to Switzerland regarding Labour cost, taxes and duties. Japan is not a low wage country.

 

And also important to know, that many manufacturer in Japan today have their products made in China.

 

90% of urushi used in Japan is imported from China and sometimeds processed in Japan.

Japanese urushi is stronger to a higher content of urushiol but Chinese urushi cost 10% of the price paid for Japanese urushi

 

If you want a pen that can be handed over for many generations you should chose a pen with traditional urushi method without oil content. If you just want a nice urushi pen you can buy a cheaper one.

 

I myself for Manu Propria Pens follow the traditional way of lacquering with Japanese only lacquer that I refine myself.

 

So, I leave it over to you to think about price structure in the industry.

 

Best regards,

 

Martin

 

post-142691-0-32316700-1526469338_thumb.jpg

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I tend to defer to Ricky's (AltecGreen) expertise on Japanese pens, urushi, and maki-e. I don't know his opinion on this Kickstarter pen. I took a look at the photos, saw how large the pen is, and wasn't interested further.

 

Also, Martin makes a lot of sense.

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Fleekair <--French accent.

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> I would consider it too but I have just bought a vermillion Shibui from Manupropria.

:puddle: :notworthy1: :puddle: :notworthy1: :puddle: :notworthy1:

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."

Oscar Wilde

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Thank you Martin for your post. It was really interesting learning how long Maki-e has been known in the western world already.

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Not only Maki-e. Rembrandt van Rijn (1606 - 1669) was a collector of Japanese art although during Edo-Period it was forbitten to export Japanese art. From at least 1647 onwards, Rembrandt executed many of his prints on papers of oriental origin, especially favored the ‘Japan’ papers, by comparison, are thicker and are often referred to as ‘vellums’.

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