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Kids Learning Handwriting?... How About Telling Time....


markh

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I guess handwriting isn't all that the next generation doesn't know. I must sound like an old codger. :lol:...


Schools are removing analogue clocks from examination halls because teenagers are unable to tell the time, a head teachers’ union has said.

Teachers are now installing digital devices after pupils sitting their GCSE and A-level exams complained that they were struggling to read the correct time on an analogue clock.

 

Article here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/04/24/schools-removing-analogue-clocks-exam-halls-teenagers-unable/

 

 

 

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...

"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

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Sad, isn't it?

Brad

"Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind" - Rudyard Kipling
"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

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Absolutely ridiculous. Reading the time isn't that freaking hard.

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The really sad part was that the concept of not being able to read an analogue clock was a plot device in the caper novel Every Little Crook and Nanny (read the book -- don't watch the movie, the book is funnier). And that was written in the 1970s! (An odd bit of trivia: my dad worked with two guys who are photographed for one of the chapter titles illustration, as two characters who figured in that chapter).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Edited to add: When I was a kid, we had some sort of toy or game which involved putting the numbers in the correct places on the dial.

Edited by inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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GCSE and A-level!!? I can understand first or second grade in primary school but FFS, that really gives me the hump!

 

Cant read the time at the age of 12: you fail!

Seems fair to me.

 

(Edit: excuse me ranting about education with no correct punctuation! For some reason, writing on this forum with an iPhone deletes all your apostrophes!! 😁)

Edited by MercianScribe

Hi, I'm Mat


:)

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Oh, my gosh....I finally realized the second level to those huge bling wrist watches....'I'm incredibly smart. I can read an analog clock!" :wallbash: :headsmack:

 

Once status was how thin your mechanical wrist watch was..............not huge clunky bling.

Even a Timex was reasonably 'thin'. ....well, compared to today's monsters.

 

I saw some stupid 'fashion' where men were wearing their huge thick wrist watch on the outside of the long shirt sleeve........had to, the watch was too thick to go under the sleeve.

IMO he was just faking being smart enough to read a clock.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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I had my 16 year old son 'sign' the back of his birthday checks the other day. He had to print. They haven't taught cursive in schools for over a decade. I've known about the analog clock thing for a while. I've collected watches for some time and he wanted no part of learning how to tell time off a watch. In fairness, I never learned how to read my dad's slide rule because I had a calculator.

 

The story above is easy to think "appalling", but I think the slide rule example is very analogous.

Edited by Tseg
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I had my 16 year old son 'sign' the back of his birthday checks the other day. He had to print. They haven't taught cursive in schools for over a decade. I've known about the analog clock thing for a while. I've collected watches for some time and he wanted no part of learning how to tell time off a watch. In fairness, I never learned how to read my dad's slide rule because I had a calculator.

 

The story above is easy to think "appalling", but I think the slide rule example is very analogous.

 

 

But knowing the time is useful to darn near everyone -- that's why its on the screen of every smartphone, dumb phone, tablet, computer, etc...not everyone needs to use a slide rule or even a calculator as often.

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True. When I was in high school, we needed to get high-end calculators to do trig functions in my advanced algebra and trigonometry class. It cost $100. Now, I have a calculator app on my phone. And one on my laptop, and I think the one on my phone can do trig functions and it was pre-installed when I bought the laptop. Not sure my husband ever had to use a slide rule, even in some of his college courses (he has a degree in Applied Mathematics, because at the time Carnegie-Mellon ONLY had Computer Science as graduate-level degrees). I don't need to to trigonometry -- but I use algebra (and some geometry) all the time.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine was decrying the "No Child Left Behind" and PA core curricula equivalents, after showing me her 3rd grader's math assignment. She said "THEY BROKE MATH! I *LOVED* MATH!" But truthfully, although the assignment seemed to be somewhat convoluted (as opposed to just doing it the way they used to teach the times tables), I could see that in some way they were trying to teach the "why" -- not just memorizing the times tables. I still do long division (I can't do it in my head); and I don't remember stuff like sine and cosine anymore; let alone calculus differential equations -- which made sense to me when I learned them, even when integrals did not (my husband said that my high school calculus class taught the stuff badly by doing integrals separately; there's a part of me that understands that you're just going the the other way from differential equations, but I could never figure out HOW).

There's a scene in the movie Up the Down Staircase, where it's parent-teacher night. And the foster mother of one of Sylvia's students is begging her to give the kid a passing grade so he can get his diploma -- just to get a job fixing cars because that's all he's interested in doing, and the woman just can't see the need for him to be reading stuff like Silas Marner and A Tale of Two Cities. And all I could think was "but that kid is going to have to read a Chilton Manual... So he HAS to know how to read, and to have the critical thinking skills to understand it...."

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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If children are spared learning archaic skills - like how to read a clock, write like a grown-up or multiply 7*8 without a calculator - I expect the time saved was used teaching them lots of valuable modern skills unknown to coffin-dodgers such as myself

 

Can anyone tell me what these skills might be?

Less is More - Ludwig Mies van der Rohe

Less is a Bore - Robert Venturi

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Way back when, in HS and Collage actually had an ivory slapstick....sadly more worth than my ability. In HS one of those Texas Instruments cost the world....for the well to do, only.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Absolutely ridiculous. Reading the time isn't that freaking hard.

 

Neither is reading a slide ruler, or Roman numerals, or crancking a gas engine without a electric starter, or reading Latin... Do you know how to do all of that?

 

There are things that add value on themselves, like writing cursive, which is faster and more readable (when it is readable, at least), but there are a lot others that have no value on themselves... like reading an analog watch. This doesn't mean they are deprived of any value as reading an analog watch is a good exercise for a youngster, and that's what worries me. I'm with @AidenMark below: OK, reading those watches have no value on itself so, then, what of more value (as mental exercises) is used as substitute... because it seems to me nothing more valuable is taking its place!

Edited by jmnav
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Reading Roman numerals is helpful for knowing when an old book was published. :)

We did learn that in school.

 

Do keep your face far away from the crank of a car. Ford's good friend Kingford, to whom Ford gave the secrete to making charcoal brickets, from the waste sawdust from his wooden framed cars, died when the crank kicked back and broke his neck. There is a retard that has to be moved back quickly to keep the motor running....needs to be choked before too. Motorcycles have a choke.

 

Well the last time I worked in a school, 30 years ago, clocks were digital. :unsure:

 

Latin is important to being a Doctor or being OCD with plants or animals. I'd guess Catholic schools might still have Latin. Do make sure you learn German based Latin, it is closer to the original than Italian.

...Dam living in Germany, I don't have a dollar bill, to quote all I use to know about Latin.

 

Well, I do have a Regula Romana, with Roman measurements; for later. Thankfully, there is translation for when I sprinkle Latin in a time fall back S&S book I have planned.

 

I was astounded how much 8th graders in 1890's Kansas had to know, including Latin. But that was the last grade unless your parents were well enough off to send the boy to High School. It was adequate for home learning, which was done much more than most realize back then.

 

When I read a couple of decades ago how PPoor US teachers were; especially Mississippi or Arkansas, I can understand how little they can teach....in often teachers are under trained and with the Bell curve and pass and fail; no kid needs learning.....except those collage bound.

 

The US overseas service schools, had the best teachers in the nation; so I was spoiled. Though those in Louisiana were quite good in the '60's. Florida wasn't. It was quite a shock, after having mastered seen and saw for four years to get to New Orleans, and find a spiderweb on the black board dripping gerunds.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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I'm a technology geek (BS MIT, MS CU) and enjoy computers and most things digital. Had one of the first hand held cell phone in the mid-1980's (cost $3,000 and air time was $1.00/minute). Spreadsheets have replaced my slide rule and calculator. My Luddite side, however, prefers some old school technology over today's:

 

Fountain pens

Hand written journals and letters

Double edge safety razors

Mechanical watches

Cars with manual transmissions and rear wheel drive

Custom made clothes

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True. When I was in high school, we needed to get high-end calculators to do trig functions in my advanced algebra and trigonometry class. It cost $100. Now, I have a calculator app on my phone. And one on my laptop, and I think the one on my phone can do trig functions and it was pre-installed when I bought the laptop. Not sure my husband ever had to use a slide rule, even in some of his college courses (he has a degree in Applied Mathematics, because at the time Carnegie-Mellon ONLY had Computer Science as graduate-level degrees). I don't need to to trigonometry -- but I use algebra (and some geometry) all the time.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine was decrying the "No Child Left Behind" and PA core curricula equivalents, after showing me her 3rd grader's math assignment. She said "THEY BROKE MATH! I *LOVED* MATH!" But truthfully, although the assignment seemed to be somewhat convoluted (as opposed to just doing it the way they used to teach the times tables), I could see that in some way they were trying to teach the "why" -- not just memorizing the times tables. I still do long division (I can't do it in my head); and I don't remember stuff like sine and cosine anymore; let alone calculus differential equations -- which made sense to me when I learned them, even when integrals did not (my husband said that my high school calculus class taught the stuff badly by doing integrals separately; there's a part of me that understands that you're just going the the other way from differential equations, but I could never figure out HOW).

There's a scene in the movie Up the Down Staircase, where it's parent-teacher night. And the foster mother of one of Sylvia's students is begging her to give the kid a passing grade so he can get his diploma -- just to get a job fixing cars because that's all he's interested in doing, and the woman just can't see the need for him to be reading stuff like Silas Marner and A Tale of Two Cities. And all I could think was "but that kid is going to have to read a Chilton Manual... So he HAS to know how to read, and to have the critical thinking skills to understand it...."

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

You do need Trig!!!! When you understand sine curves, you can understand how day length changes with the seasons, and are on the way to understanding tides.

 

And you also need an understanding of basic stats -- means, standard deviation, normal curve, basic sampling theory -- to understand when some politician is spinning you a line.

 

Nothing, however, will help give you an understanding of cats...

Edited by dcwaites

fpn_1412827311__pg_d_104def64.gif




“Them as can do has to do for them as can’t.


And someone has to speak up for them as has no voices.”


Granny Aching

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I'm a bit concerned when students' complaints that something is difficult are sufficient reason to eliminate it from their world. I can think of many difficult things, starting with self-discipline, that I would rather not see removed from the process of education. But perhaps I'm being unreasonable here. Maybe while they have Big Ben's clock under repair they could replace the clock faces with digital displays for the convenience of younger Londoners. And perhaps switch from bells to a voice synthesizer and speakers so people wouldn't be bothered with having to count the strikes. Counting is so 19th-century.

ron

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Reading a clock is analogous to understanding compass direction, or simply to understanding methods of referencing points in circles. It helps to know one of these and its relation to others. Reading a clock face is clearly inferior to reading a digital timepiece if accuracy is important. Speed is a matter of familiarity in either case, for example seeing a time and from that having a prompt and good idea how long since or until.

 

edit:typo

Edited by praxim

X

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My wife wanted to give away some of her cook book collection, but no youth in our apartment building was interested, having internet. That's good if one has an exact idea of what one wants, but by leafing through a cook one stumbles over recipes one would not have thought of to ask on the net. Zucchini cupcakes were great; beats carrot cupcakes all hollow.

 

Being an old fogie, I do admit the youth of today do communicate. From 'chatting' with their best 200 friends whom they have never met, to "I'm five minutes away." Or listening to her sex life on the street car.

The one song that is not going to be covered is 'The Sound of Silence'.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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I'd be less concerned about dropping older skills like reading analogue clocks, if there weren't also some reports filtering about students leaving some high schools barely able to read and write, and dropping exam standards to gain more passes. It makes handwriting and clock-reading feel just a wee bit less 'archaic and unnecessary' and a wee bit more 'making kids flail in confusion'.

 

Reading Roman numerals is helpful for knowing when an old book was published. :)

Or when an old BBC show was made...

 

Latin is important to being a Doctor or being OCD with plants or animals.

And even when you're a professional biologist. (/zoologist/botanist/palaeontologist/etc.) :)

 

My Luddite side, however, prefers some old school technology over today's:

 

Double edge safety razors

I prefer those because they actually work. Edited by WarrenB

31182132197_f921f7062d.jpg

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