Very Confused About Proper Pen Holding, Especially For Flex And Italic Writing

[Intensity]

My writing grip is wrong. It's very wrong. Unfortunately for 30-some years, it's been how I write and draw, so I just wave it off. But now I'm practicing with more complex instruments than just ballpoint pens and nail-like round-tip fountain pens: I'm learning to write with flexible nibs and cursive italic nibs.

 

Cursive italic has not really been a problem, except that the way I hold my pen made a difference for the line variation: instead of thick on downstroke (or, really, diagonal downstroke pointing left) and thin on the cross-strokes, I get thick diagonal (fop left to bottom right) strokes, and thin opposite strokes. Not the optimal, and further I don't get the full range of line variation with my grip. I did consider an oblique nib, but that doesn't fix my incorrect technique.

 

Now I finally have a couple of very flexy pens, and this is where I truly have a problem. I can draw out proper lines with an oblique dip nib holder, but it's not the same as holding a fountain pen. It's a significant effort to very slowly write with a flex pen and get the pressure and line variation as it should be--I know I'm doing it wrong.

 

I've looked for instructional videos on youtube, and they just left me more puzzled. For instance, this one:

 

The way she is recommending to hold a pen makes sense for round nibs, but I see the nib is still turned significantly sideways and also rotated a bit. That would result in thick (for italic or flex) lines going very diagonally top left to bottom right. Unless I rotate the page at some crazy angle, maybe. But still, it does not seem right. I need to make sure the tines and the slit are more "parallel" to the direction I need to draw the thick strokes and apply some pressure (for flex nibs). I do know from a one-session class I took on Copperplate caligraphy that I should rotate the page significantly, but I doubt I should rotate it more than 90 degrees!

 

Does anyone have a recommendation for some guides (videos would be even better) for proper pen holding technique that works for Italic and Flexible nibs? Such that downstrokes are the thick lines, and cross strokes are the thin lines. I need to re-learn to hold the pen correctly, and I might as well do it in a way that's appropriate for italic and flex nibs, not just any which way for round nibs.

 

Thank you.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Intensity

[Uncial]

Change the angle of the page, not the pen. This can help a lot if you have a flex nib. Rather than rocking your hand to the right (to give a rest support), consciously lift the hand to try and write with a more flowing motion as if making marks with a brush. This will feel odd for a while but will become very natural surprisingly quickly and should change what you see in terms of the italic nibs. I can't recommend books and videos but just slow everything right down so that you can consciously observe what you unconsciously do when you write, then you can alter it and start to play.

[Inky.Fingers]

There's a thread on this..

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/249966-how-do-train-myself-to-stop-using-death-grip-when-using-a-fountain-pen/

[Inky.Fingers]

The writing position is the most important. The arm and hand should also be the same for both round hand and italic. The only difference that I see is the way the hand holds the pen.

[dumaresq]

Cursive italic has not really been a problem, except that the way I hold my pen made a difference for the line variation: instead of thick on downstroke (or, really, diagonal downstroke pointing left) and thin on the cross-strokes, I get thick diagonal (fop left to bottom right) strokes, and thin opposite strokes.

 

The way she is recommending to hold a pen makes sense for round nibs, but I see the nib is still turned significantly sideways and also rotated a bit. That would result in thick (for italic or flex) lines going very diagonally top left to bottom right. Unless I rotatye the page at some crazy angle, maybe.

Your italic is absolutely correct as it is:

• Diagonal strokes from top left to bottom right are thickest (full width of the nib)
• Diagonal strokes from bottom left to top right are thinnest
• Horizontal and vertical strokes are both medium in width

[dumaresq]

As Uncial has mentioned, adjust the paper angle rather than your hand hold.

 

For italic, you don't need to rotate the paper. But for copperplate writing you definitely do. This video goes into the topic in detail:

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by dumaresq

[Intensity]

Thanks everyone, I truly appreciate your replies. Will be practicing what you suggested.

[ReadyFireAim]

I finger write rather than move my whole hand.

Whole arm writing can be done by master penmen or when freehand flourishing but it will likely take over a thousand hours of practice.

 

My thumb is not high up the pen like in the 1st video.

 

I also align my nib perpendicular to the writing line (almost straight up and down) & not on the slope.

When I press on the nib at the top of the small d or t, it automatically squares the top.

 

When I form letters, I twist the nib CW & CCW slightly, depending on what is required to unweight one of the tines & facilitate flex.

I also tilt the top of the pen to the right when planting the right tine at the top of the small d & t to allow the left tine to slip to the left.

Making a squared off small p in one stroke is really complicated and something you just have to practice.

 

I think of a flex pen as having two tips that I can move independently or together based on how I twist or tilt the pen.

Experiment with all orientations as they will give you insight into the limits of what is possible.

 

One last thing...I ride the right tine a lot and it works for me.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Nail-Bender