Smoothest Writing Fine Or Extra Fine Point Pen ?

[ducatisteve]

My mind first went to Sailor and the Pilot Custom 823 F. Easily the smoothest F nibs I've ever encountered (and even EF for the Sailor).

[pajaro]

Montblanc 144. Both fine and extra fine.

Edited April 24, 2018 by pajaro

[minddance]

Pilot 78G fine and medium. Not 78G+.

[Precise]

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/297964-my-italian-nibs-are-my-smoothest/

 

I posted the above 2.5 years ago. Since then, I've come to love flattening the tip so much that I flatten the tips on almost all my pens. It takes a few minutes as follows:

 

I hold the pen as I would to write, and drag it downward about 4 inches with gentle pressure on 2000 grit carborundum paper. Then I check for signs of flattening with magnification and usually repeat that once or twice more until about half of the tip is flat when viewed from the side.

 

Next I drag it downward while rotating the pen 90 degrees right and left to round the sides of the flat. This is to eliminate sharp sides, like a ski.

 

Next I drag it downward once or twice while rocking it up and down about 30 degrees, to round the leading and trailing edges of my "ski".

 

Then I repeat this with 8000 grit (blue) micromesh. And again with 12000 grit (gray) micromesh.

 

The result is sensuously smooth.

 

If this worries you, practice on some cheap (Chinese?) pens.

 

I've written in other posts that reviewers commenting on the smoothness or roughness of various brands of pens seems irrelevant to me now that I've learned how to make any nib super smooth.

 

If you learn to do this, I think you'll love it.

 

Alan

[effrafax]

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/297964-my-italian-nibs-are-my-smoothest/

 

I posted the above 2.5 years ago. Since then, I've come to love flattening the tip so much that I flatten the tips on almost all my pens. It takes a few minutes as follows:

 

I hold the pen as I would to write, and drag it downward about 4 inches with gentle pressure on 2000 grit carborundum paper. Then I check for signs of flattening with magnification and usually repeat that once or twice more until about half of the tip is flat when viewed from the side.

 

Next I drag it downward while rotating the pen 90 degrees right and left to round the sides of the flat. This is to eliminate sharp sides, like a ski.

 

Next I drag it downward once or twice while rocking it up and down about 30 degrees, to round the leading and trailing edges of my "ski".

 

Then I repeat this with 8000 grit (blue) micromesh. And again with 12000 grit (gray) micromesh.

 

The result is sensuously smooth.

 

If this worries you, practice on some cheap (Chinese?) pens.

 

I've written in other posts that reviewers commenting on the smoothness or roughness of various brands of pens seems irrelevant to me now that I've learned how to make any nib super smooth.

 

If you learn to do this, I think you'll love it.

 

Alan

 

Yes, what you're talking about is turning the nib into a stub. However, it is no longer fine or extra fine ...

[TheDutchGuy]

Very informative thread. My FP journey is taking me towards finer nibs. I started with wet European mediums, I'm now happy with European fines (using Japanese Sailors with M nibs), and am also looking for my grail pen. I wonder if I will continue to gravitate towards finer nibs. If so, a Sailor 1911L with F 21k nib could be my ticket. Alternatively, perhaps European F might be my ultimate destination and a (used) MB 146 or 149 with F nib might be the grail. Or a Sailor 21k M.

 

(I tried a Sailor 1911L 21k F recently and was in awe of the quality of its nib - however, the line was so fine that I could see the wavering of my hand in the writing. In other words, my hand wasn't steady enough. However I was writing standing up, in a store, and as I am 2 meters tall, this is less than ideal.)

[Precise]

 

Yes, what you're talking about is turning the nib into a stub. However, it is no longer fine or extra fine ...

Not so. What I described does not widen the line width.

Alan

[effrafax]

Not so. What I described does not widen the line width.

Alan

 

Well I hate to be argumentative, but if you flatten the tipping on the underside, and square off the end of the nib's tipping, you can't avoid widening the line. I've ground many a nib, including some Lamy EF nibs, and unless you are narrowing the tip as well, you end up with a wider line. But then, if you narrow the tip, you're in danger of removing all the tipping and start grinding into the steel or gold underneath.

[Fatalpotato]

Very informative thread. My FP journey is taking me towards finer nibs. I started with wet European mediums, I'm now happy with European fines (using Japanese Sailors with M nibs), and am also looking for my grail pen. I wonder if I will continue to gravitate towards finer nibs. If so, a Sailor 1911L with F 21k nib could be my ticket. Alternatively, perhaps European F might be my ultimate destination and a (used) MB 146 or 149 with F nib might be the grail. Or a Sailor 21k M.

 

(I tried a Sailor 1911L 21k F recently and was in awe of the quality of its nib - however, the line was so fine that I could see the wavering of my hand in the writing. In other words, my hand wasn't steady enough. However I was writing standing up, in a store, and as I am 2 meters tall, this is less than ideal.)

It's funny I've started with the opposite tendencies and now migrating toward a broader nib collection as time passes. When I started collecting fps I associated fine nibs to mechanical pencils which I used a lot back then. As a person with horrible handwriting I prefer nibs larger in size(not tipping but like #8, #9 etc) because I think it is possible to write with them with less wrist movements. I really enjoyed the now defunct delta dvos #8 Bock nib ef and danitrio Bock f seems nice as well. Those would be my grail fine nibs for people with bad handwriting

[Precise]

 

Well I hate to be argumentative, but if you flatten the tipping on the underside, and square off the end of the nib's tipping, you can't avoid widening the line. I've ground many a nib, including some Lamy EF nibs, and unless you are narrowing the tip as well, you end up with a wider line. But then, if you narrow the tip, you're in danger of removing all the tipping and start grinding into the steel or gold underneath.

Greetings effrafax,

 

I've done this on about 50 nibs with no widening of the line. A possible explanation is that a meniscus forms between the curved tip and the flat paper and that determines the line width, not the width of the patch in contact with the paper.

 

But don't take my word for this. Try my flattening procedure yourself on a cheap pen.

 

Best,

Alan

[TheDutchGuy]

It's funny I've started with the opposite tendencies and now migrating toward a broader nib collection as time passes.

Broader nibs make me write too fast and with less precision. Also a page full of juicy, medium text sort of jumps out at me. Less is more. But writing is supremely personal, whatever works is fine :-) .

[akrohn2010]

In a similar vein - I started out seeking buttery smooth nail-like nibs and have started to appreciate feedback and spring after getting my Custom Heritage 91 with a SF nib: smooth, but in a different way - I end up with complete control of my handwriting, unlike my stubs or smoother nibs.

 

That being said, my L2K EF and TWSBI EF are both exceptionally smooth.

[ac12]

Did you balance all the variables: pen, nib, ink, paper, YOU the writer?

If any of the variables are not optimized for the pen, you will not get good results.

EF nibs are especially fussy about the variables.

 

As the nib gets finer, it is more fussy about the paper it writes on.

For a EF nib you want a HARD SMOOTH paper, such as Clairfontaine, Rhodia, or HP 32# premium.

Smooth is a sneaky thing. Magazine paper is smooth, but there is something in some of the paper that does not like liquid ink. When you write with a fountain pen, the paper starts to get mushy as it absorbs the ink.

 

As was said, ink is a a lubricant, between the nib and the paper.

If the ink is too fluid, the nib will go right through the ink to the paper.

If the ink is too thick, the ink won't flow well, and there won't be enough ink under the nib to lubricate the nib.

This is a delicate balance between ink and nib.

Pelikans are generally wet pens, so they flow ink well. So you have a fair amount of ink under the nib.

TWSBI is not as wet, so you need a thinner ink or adjust the nib to flow more ink.

 

Are you CERTAIN that you are holding the pen so both tines are even on the paper, and that you are not rolling the pen as you write?

 

Specifically what part of the stroke is "toothy," up, side (L>R or R>L), down?

 

As Alan said, a "slight" flattening of the contact point of the nib will knock off the sharp edge of the slit of the tipping.

That may also be what you are feeling, the drag of the edge of the slit.

[Fatalpotato]

Broader nibs make me write too fast and with less precision. Also a page full of juicy, medium text sort of jumps out at me. Less is more. But writing is supremely personal, whatever works is fine :-) .

Yeah I really like how the sheen and the true color of the ink coming out from a broad nib. Though a well flowing pen and ink combo really messes my writing as well, as the nib is dragging on the paper like hot knife through butter. I totally agree on whatever works is fine for each individual

[Precise]

One other thought.

Although far less effective than the flattening I've described above, Duke blue ink is more lubricious than other inks that I've tried. It's not expensive and a nice blue.

Alan

[SpecTP]

I've found that GvFB fountain pens EF and F nibs to be very smooth. But a visit to a nibmeister can solve most issues.

[effrafax]

Greetings effrafax,

 

I've done this on about 50 nibs with no widening of the line. A possible explanation is that a meniscus forms between the curved tip and the flat paper and that determines the line width, not the width of the patch in contact with the paper.

 

But don't take my word for this. Try my flattening procedure yourself on a cheap pen.

 

Best,

Alan

 

Yeah, so on re-reading your instructions, I found:

 

"Next I drag it downward while rotating the pen 90 degrees right and left to round the sides of the flat."

 

That is narrowing the tip. By rounding it off, you are automatically narrowing it.

[kealani]

Did you balance all the variables: pen, nib, ink, paper, YOU the writer?

If any of the variables are not optimized for the pen, you will not get good results.

EF nibs are especially fussy about the variables.

 

As the nib gets finer, it is more fussy about the paper it writes on.

For a EF nib you want a HARD SMOOTH paper, such as Clairfontaine, Rhodia, or HP 32# premium.

Smooth is a sneaky thing. Magazine paper is smooth, but there is something in some of the paper that does not like liquid ink. When you write with a fountain pen, the paper starts to get mushy as it absorbs the ink.

 

As was said, ink is a a lubricant, between the nib and the paper.

If the ink is too fluid, the nib will go right through the ink to the paper.

If the ink is too thick, the ink won't flow well, and there won't be enough ink under the nib to lubricate the nib.

This is a delicate balance between ink and nib.

Pelikans are generally wet pens, so they flow ink well. So you have a fair amount of ink under the nib.

TWSBI is not as wet, so you need a thinner ink or adjust the nib to flow more ink.

 

Are you CERTAIN that you are holding the pen so both tines are even on the paper, and that you are not rolling the pen as you write?

 

Specifically what part of the stroke is "toothy," up, side (L>R or R>L), down?

 

As Alan said, a "slight" flattening of the contact point of the nib will knock off the sharp edge of the slit of the tipping.

That may also be what you are feeling, the drag of the edge of the slit.

 

yes

side to side

 

thanks

jim

[TheDutchGuy]

Recently acquired an old MB 146 with an EF nib. These nibs had (have?) a mild architect grind which is totally addictive. Very smooth, and because the horizontal strokes are broader, it dfoesn't look at all like F or EF on paper.