Smoothest Writing Fine Or Extra Fine Point Pen ?

[kealani]

Aloha Everyone.

 

I am somewhat new at this and notice that my TWSBI Echo and Diamond in EF and F nib are very scratchy. The tines are aligned and polishing the tip with micro grit helped a little but they are still very "toothy".

I have a Pelican M200 with a custom tuned Fine nib that write fairly smoothly.

 

Are there any other Fine or EF point pens that are smooth with the least feedback (and scratchy noise)?

 

 

Are there any pens with an Extra Fine or Fine nib that are the "smoothest" and "wettest" to write with?

Mahalo,

Jim

[Tseg]

My smoothest pen is an ST Dupont Olympio (although it is a Medium, but understand their F & EF are about as smooth), followed by a Waterman Carene (Fine), when writing on Tomoe River paper. Paper will have significant impact. I am not a fan of the waxiness of Rhodia paper that creates a lag feel in a number of my pens. My Pilot Custom 823 Fine is also smooth (like a smooth ball-bearing feel) but writes like an EF or 2X EF.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Tseg

[effrafax]

The thing about using fine and extra fine (or if you have a Platinum ultra extra fine!) is that they need a very light hand. This question comes up fairly regularly, and my feeling is that, if, as you say, the nib's tines are properly aligned and you have polished it a bit, then maybe the problem is elsewhere. For starters, what sort of paper are you using? Is the pen loaded with a nicely lubricating ink? And the biggie: how heavy a hand do you have?

 

I'm old enough to have learned to write using dip pens, back in the mid-60s. Our teacher was, bluntly, a bit of a tyrant, but I'm thankful for that in a way, as it taught me to hold the pen very lightly. She would sneak up behind us, and if she couldn't pull the pen out of your hand, would deliver a rap across the knuckles. Different times ...

 

I have a TWSBI Diamond 580 with an EF nib, and I find it a delight to write with, and I haven't had to adjust it at all. I tend to use fine, extra fine (or even the aforementioned UEF) or broad cursive italic nibs (e.g. the 1.1 ci Lamy or TWSBI, or nibs that I've ground myself into ci).

 

If you think you may be gripping the pen too hard, or are pressing into the paper too hard, there are many good resources to help you adjust your grip, which can be found by a bit of googling around.

 

But for starters, here's how I go about holding my pen:

 

Start with a fairly open, and relaxed hand, with the pen balanced on the third finger and thumb joint:

 

 

Then close your thumb and first finger onto the pen, lightly:

 

 

Then simply rotate your wrist and forearm to bring nib to paper:

 

 

And you're good to go. Your grip at this point should be light. If you find that it tenses up as you write, just pause, and tap the pen with your forefinger a couple of times to relax the grip again. You can do this if you find you're hand tiring too.

 

Note that I'm not quite holding the Decimo correctly: the nib is rotated a bit anti-clockwise. That's what happens when you do things in a hurry!

 

If you find that your grip looks like this:

 

 

with the first joint of your forefinger indented, then you are holding the pen much too tightly, and will find the (fine, ef, uef) nib scratchy. Likewise, the pen only needs to touch the paper lightly, with little or no pressure applied. All this assumes a reasonably, but not necessarily perfectly, smooth paper.

 

This is not the only grip that works, but is how I was taught and works for me still. Others can be found by googling "correct fountain pen grip".

 

Let us know how you get on.

[effrafax]

P.S. The other thing I forgot to mention above is how you actually write your letters. The gross movements of the pen nib need to come from arm and shoulder. I find that my arm 'wobbles' about on the pad of muscle on the underside of my forearm. The fingers should only be doing the fine-detail work of forming letters.

 

If you don't already do this, it does take a bit of practice. Again, plenty of good help with your friendly neighbourhood Google ...

[Rose Nibs]

Correct, effrafax. Very fine points are demanding. The paper must be right, the ink, the alignment of the nib and lightness in the grip. Tomoe River paper, I find, is an excellent paper for extra fine nibs because the point is more lubricated, the ink doesn't soak into the surface. There is a temptation to focus on the point of the nib and try to polish it smooth. That is unlikely to be the problem if the tines are aligned properly.

[kealani]

P.S. The other thing I forgot to mention above is how you actually write your letters. The gross movements of the pen nib need to come from arm and shoulder. I find that my arm 'wobbles' about on the pad of muscle on the underside of my forearm. The fingers should only be doing the fine-detail work of forming letters.

 

If you don't already do this, it does take a bit of practice. Again, plenty of good help with your friendly neighbourhood Google ...

 

Outstanding suggestions and tips.

I also have a TWSBI Diamond 580 with an EF nib. Aurora Black ink on either Rhodia or Tamoe River Paper. I noticed that the "nib end" on the TWSBI is angular vs the "nib end" on my Pelican and Sailor 1911 is more rounded, like a droplet. Does this have anything to do with how an EF nib moves across paper? Why it makes that scratchy sound?

 

aloha

jim

[effrafax]

That's interesting: out of curiosity, I looked at my EF nib with a loupe, and found it was quite smooth and rounded. Here's a quick shot I took with my phone, with the aid of a macro lens:

 

 

Smooth is, of course, relative: at such magnification, imperfections do show up, but you can see that the tipping is quite rounded.

[effrafax]

Now that I think about it, TWSBI did change their nib supplier. I've only had mine less than two years, definitely after the change. Were yours and the OP's pen bought prior to the change? That may explain the difference.

 

[i can't remember if the change was from Bock to Jowo, or vice versa.]

[kealani]

Now that I think about it, TWSBI did change their nib supplier. I've only had mine less than two years, definitely after the change. Were yours and the OP's pen bought prior to the change? That may explain the difference.

 

[i can't remember if the change was from Bock to Jowo, or vice versa.]

 

I'm not sure. But did notice that pens with rounded tipping seem to be less prone to writing "scratchy" compared to those with angular tipping. Given that both nibs are equally aligned and polished.

j

[effrafax]

That's possible, of course. One thing I've found though, is that a nib that looks aligned under a 10x or 15x loupe may show some misalignment with a higher magnification (I have a range of loupes, mostly cheap, but fairly good quality, Chinese Ebay-bought ones). It only needs to be very slight, but at the wrong angle relative to how you hold the pen and write can well cause scratchiness.

[Fatalpotato]

What I find with especially fine nibs smoothness is that inks lubrication is just as important as the nib itself, also the paper helps out a lot. I enjoy using Aurora black or Waterman serenity blue in my ef nibs, and the smoothest I have is probably a visconti 23k although it's comparable to my Lamy 2k fine in terms of line width.

[effrafax]

Certainly a good ink helps, but I think that less lubricating inks, such as iron galls, tend to make nibs drag, rather than actually scratchy.

[Fatalpotato]

Yeah not much to do with a scratchy nib other than tipping modification I guess but even the difference between take sumi and Aurora black is remarkable for me

[Buzz_130]

For fines and extra fines, the Japanese Big Three (Sailor, Platinum, and Pilot) are renown for their craftsmanship. i find Platinum tends to have feedback (which I enjoy) in the nib, and this slows down my strokes. Pilot and Sailor have wonderful nibs that float on the pool of ink laid down by the nib. I generally use Japanese inks in Japanese pens, and I haven't had an issue with fountain-pen friendly ink.

 

Buzz

[kealani]

For fines and extra fines, the Japanese Big Three (Sailor, Platinum, and Pilot) are renown for their craftsmanship. i find Platinum tends to have feedback (which I enjoy) in the nib, and this slows down my strokes. Pilot and Sailor have wonderful nibs that float on the pool of ink laid down by the nib. I generally use Japanese inks in Japanese pens, and I haven't had an issue with fountain-pen friendly ink.

 

Buzz

 

By craftsmanship, do you mean the quality and "tuning" and performance of the nib tip on paper?

jim

[Fatalpotato]

By craftsmanship, do you mean the quality and "tuning" and performance of the nib tip on paper?

jim

They have top notch quality control on nib tuning and also the parts of the barrel as well,at least from the few that I owned upto now.

[aardvarkbark]

 

Are there any pens with an Extra Fine or Fine nib that are the "smoothest" and "wettest" to write with?

Mahalo,

Jim

 

 

 

Bear in mind that width of tip and flow of ink are two separate things. I have found that stock Sailor F and EF nibs produce a very fine line without scratchiness. Alternatively, a good nibmeister can grind and tune a western nib to yield similar uber-thin lines without any scratchiness.

[minddance]

Pelikans certainly write different. There are some people who dislike and despise smooth and round nibs but smooth and round are not easily achievable, certainly not with drawing figure 8s on micromesh or amateur 'polishing'. Of course this is all personal preference. I appreciate smooth and round nibs.

[dcwaites]

A pair of nibs, Medium at the top, Fine at the bottom. Top is a Jinhao, and I can't remember what the bottom is.

 

[kealani]

A pair of nibs, Medium at the top, Fine at the bottom. Top is a Jinhao, and I can't remember what the bottom is.

 

 

thanks for posting that

i wonder if the tipping shape has a lot to do with how the nib moves over paper when writing