What Defines A True Flex Nib?

[surprise123]

What defines a flexy nib? I am talking about vintage flex here, not modern steel flex nibs. What are the characteristics of a flex nib? (nib composition, nib thick/thinness, length, girth, size, brandings, models, etc.) My Parker Duofold Lady has a cute little gold nib that has some flex to it, but I'm not sure if this is just because it's gold or because it was made to be flexible.

[surprise123]

Oh, while I'm at it, since the upside down part of my Duofold nib is so fine, and smooth, would you guys recommend writing upside down for school papers? Is it advisable to use a pen upside down? Can this lead to feed damage?

[linearM]

There are two places I think would be good for you to take a look at and perhaps answer your questions. Take a look at http://richardspens.com. Do a search for 'flex nibs', Richards pens is one of the best resources for answering almost any fountain pen question. Another place I would go is; http://www.vintagepen.net. About 2/3 of the way down on the left side you will find some information on flex nibs. Most of the pens Mauricio has for sale are flex nib pens and you can get a sense of what is available and the characteristics by reading some of his descriptions.

[max dog]

Get yourself a dip flex pen and practice using it for flex. A Speedball Oblique nib holder with a #101 Imperial flex nib will suffice. A $15 investment and some time. Don't forget to burn off the factory oils coating the nib before you start if you want any ink to flow.

 

This will provide you a baseline for what a real flex nib is. In comparison vintage fountain pens with "flex" nibs are not true flex, but varying degrees of semi-flex relative to true dip flex nibs. It's all relative. But spending some time around dip flex pens and getting a feel for them will enable you to understand the limitations of both vintage and modern flex pens, and likely help you to enjoy and appreciate them more for what they are

Edited April 20, 2018 by max dog

[Bo Bo Olson]

Attempts at judging nib tine spread and ease of tine spread on electric scales seems to have failed....to many variables.

 

I have a system of halves, that works for me.

 

Nail = no flex 1X is all you get.

Semi-nail, like a P-75 or modern Pelikan 400/600, when well mashed you get 2 X vs a light down stroke.

 

Do read Richard Binder's article on nib metal fatigue. I call it 'how to spring your nib.'

 

Next is the 3 X tine spread set. Of course BB and BBB won't spread that far.

Regular flex when well mashed, will give 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke. Much too much work to spread the tines that much often. A nice springy ride, good for shading inks in F& M, B works too.

Pelikan 200 is one of the few modern pens with regular flex nibs. Once a normal issue, look for older '50-70's Sheaffers in that flex. Sheaffer made, nails, regular flex and a few early '50's semi-flex.

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to get 3X tine spread, easy to find in the '50-70 era in German pens. Will give you that old fashioned fountain pen flair with out you doing anything. Good for an occasional practiced decender only in fancy. (I like many was Ham Fisted, my first semi-flex a 140 OB ((Nibs were thinner than modern by 1/2 a width, so is a writing nib, not a signature nib of today)) And it took me three months to lighten my hand, so I wasn't always maxing the nib.)

 

Maxi-semi-flex, half the pressure of a semi-flex, or 1/4th the well mashed regular flex. The only pens I know that are sure in this flex is the Osmia Supra nib. The Osmia Diamond is semi-flex.

I have 27 semi-flex, 16 maxi-semi-flex, and when I subtract my Osmia Supra nibs from that, I get a WOG of 1 pen in 5 semi-flex as being maxi. I have maxi in Pelikan, Geha, Osmia, and MB.

Is a better nib for some fancy....if you have the book, and have learned to draw letters, or decenders.

 

Superflex, is a pen that has wider 4, 5-6, or rarely 7 X tine spread, and at an easier flex rate than semi/maxi.....and there is more variation....especially in wet noodle than this system gives. This part of the system is more a guide to noobies to superflex...........and I hate the vague supposedly cool, term, 'Flex'. (Some folks in a hurry might see semi-Flex and think it a superflex after all it 'says' flex. and ruin a perfectly good 3 X nib by trying to make it like YouTube 7X.......it will do that once.)

 

What I call Easy Full Flex, needs half the pressure of a maxi, or 1/8th to max tine spread, than the pressure needed to max a regular flex.(Have 5-6 of these)

 

Wet Noodle half of that, or 1/16th of the pressure needed to mash a regular flex. Have three; each different, two are the rare 7X the other is more a 5 X..

 

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle, a term invented by the nib grinder John Sobada(sp?)/Oxnard on the com. That would be even less pressure needed than a Wet Noodle.....don't have any, don't want any.

To use superflex requires work....lots of practice.

 

Defiantly buy only from folks on this com..........in the Ebay and Youtube all show a 7 X tine spread showing a nib that is or will soon be sprung. 7X is rare, 5 X is more common yet all you see is nibs spread to 7 X.

 

As mentioned Binder's how to spring your nib article. I strive to never max a nib....I have a 100n Easy Full Flex, that can go 5X tine spread, I strive to keep it at 4 X. My 7 X nibs, I strive to max at BB instead of taking it all the way out to BBB.

 

There was a nice thread or post where some good poster gave us Waterman info from the '30's when all those Waterman super wet noodles come from. They were after good tine bend and a 3 X tine spread, so it is quite possible we are all stressing our superflex nibs by going more than 3-4 X.

The folks that can write are more interested in a fine line and fast snapback than a fat letter.

 

There are dip pens nibs like the 99-100-101 Hunt or the fabled Gillette 303/404 that make a Wet Noodle look uncooked.

Best to buy a few dip pens, to see if you are going to actually do the work and learn.

I my self am too lazy....so I just scribble normal with my superflex pens....seldom trying to do real fancy.

If you bugger up a dip pen nib, (or even a modern slit ground superflex, no big deal.....If you bugger up a rare vintage superflex nib....how can you ever look your self in the mirror, having ruined an irreplaceable heirloom?

 

Before buying a vintage super-flex hang around the sections of the come where those who can write do. See what dedicated practice can do.

 

If you take an Ahab, and do the Pilot mod, two little half moons ground in the sides of the nib by round Swiss file or Dremil, you can take a hard hard, semi-flex pressure 'superflex' nib and turn it into a joy to use Easy Full Flex............and not ruin anything good. Look up 'Ahab Mod' in the search section.

 

By the way, stiff nib Italic calligraphy has much to offer, in many fonts. There one learns to draw the letters, that one can use when one starts learning to draw letters in superflex.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[AAAndrew]

The OP asked “What are the characteristics of a flex nib? (nib composition, nib thick/thinness, length, girth, size, brandings, models, etc.”

 

A nib will flex, i.e. the tines spread apart and come back together under normal writing pressure to creat a modulation in line, when the material:

1. Has inherent elasticity. Steel is excellent for this, but gold can be made to have elasticity with the right alloy components as well as treatment during manufacturing. Brass is pretty poor, with silver being somewhere in between poor and barely acceptable.

2. Is thin enough to allow for this elasticity to express itself under normal writing conditions.

3. Is shaped into a proper shape that allows for this elasticity to express itself. Longer tines, for example tend towards greater flex than shorter ones of the same thickness.

 

Other elements which can impact flexibility include additional piercings or slits to remove material that inhibit movement of the tines, and even removing extra material in key places along the tines. In the old days of steel pens, they would grind them perpendicular to the axis of the pen to try and increase flexibility. (And sometimes parallel as well, but I’ve yet to be convinced that does anything functional).

 

https://thesteelpen.com/2017/10/16/note-on-grinding/

 

For fountain pen nibs, flex is really a matter of the three characteristics of the material I listed above. Nowadays, people are trying to turn stiff nibs into flex, or barely flexible nibs into more fully-flexing nibs by removing material. That’s about the only way after manufacturing to make a nib more flexible.

 

And there’s no really accurate way to tell by sight if a fountain pen nib will be flexible or not. If you’ve seen a lot of vintage flex, you can have a good suspicion, but you only ever really know by testing it.

 

Hopefully this is what you were asking.

Edited April 20, 2018 by AAAndrew

[surprise123]

I'll be trolling around the flea market next saturday to see if I can find any pens. As the nib on the Parker is relatively soft, I won't use it as a flex nib, since I just like the cushioned feel of writing with one now.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Well written, AAA.

 

USA made Parker has soft nibs?

 

Well my Vac, and P-51 are nails.....my P-75 has semi-nail. Semi-nail could be considered 'soft' if one is use to a nail.

Late '40's 50's English made Parkers....in they had to compete with Swan which had a full range of nibs, were more flexible than I thought American Parker's are/were.

My English made Jr. Duofold is semi-flex and my English made P-45 is regular flex. I'd thought the P-45 a nail, if made in the US.

 

Australian Sheaffer Snorkel had more flexible nibs than in the rare US early '50's semi-flex. It is a BB factory stub, maxi-semi-flex. So I never looked again for the semi-flex Snorkel I had been looking for.

 

 

I have other Parker's I've not looked at enough to have them in my head, but thought them nails.

That English developed one, where the barrel suddenly gets thinner....forget which one, is a nail, but that is a later '70's model.

My wife has a couple flighters sets, stuck somewhere (so she can find the ball points...come the day....in she refuses to take good ball points to work.. In they are nails, I've no big interest.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Lloyd]

I'm thinking of sending all of my possibly flexy nibs to Bo Bo for grading.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Lloyd, it's easy, first get a nice springy regular flex nib, like a Pelikan 200***, and you have your base line.

Pressure need to spread the tines to A max....well mashed = 3 X tine spread max.

Then just half the pressure next if you have it, down the ladder.

1/2 3 X tine spread max...semi-flex

1/4th 3 X " maxi

 

Super flex to where ever you feel the slightest feeling of a bit of stop pressure...it is no longer as easy as it once was to spread the tines.

1/8th Easy Full flex

1/16th. Wet Noodle.

It don't take but three to see there is more pressure variance than in Easy Full Flex. But it's a horseshoe stake...something to aim at.

 

Then even less for the Weak Kneed Wet Noodle.

 

No nib really needs to be maxed all the time....and is bad because of metal fatigue.

 

My Hunt 99-100-101 flex sitting up in the cup, when there there is an earthquake in California....or Italy.

 

 

***Esterbrook had a regular flex nib....some of the Sheaffer nibs were regular flex.....many companies made semi-vintage or vintage regular flex nibs.

Get your self some regular flex nib pens....then look for a well known semi-flex pen like a 140.....with luck some day you'll end up with a maxi from that era.

 

Not all Waterman 52's are superflex, much less wet noodles.

Those you buy from someone here or in the sales section.

 

 

My first maxi-semi-flex that I noticed, was a Rupp nib....and that don't mean your Rupp will be a maxi, could be it will be only semi-flex. (Every time I ran into a Rupp nibbed pen....someone else won it all three other times.)

At first because of ease of tine bend and spread thought the Rupp superflex, but it only spread 3 X. I did have a Easy Full Flex, that spread easier and wider.

There is more variance in maxi than in semi, where they seem to all clump together.

Being much more the 'noobie' I started getting a bit OCD. I was very surprised to find in my semi-flex nibs I had 5 maxies....a couple of them were Supra nibbed Osmia pens.

So, I had F-1 (two pens) F-1 1/4 (two pens) and that Rupp at F 1 1/2. It did not have the ease of flex I had in my then only Easy Full Flex pen, nor the Soennecken Wet Noodle..........so it was maxi.

I luckily quickly dropped that F-1...1/4...1/2 system, Had Planned F-2 for Easy, and F-3 for Wet Noodle.

Way too subjunctive, was subjunctive enough with the basic Half System.

It really didn't matter as much as I though being so OCD, in all wrote well.

It don't matter all that much.

My Soennecken Wet Noodle was easiest and smoothest in tine spread (that would have been my F-3 1/2, the two Waterman 52's Wet Noodles do well enough, for government work.

That was nit picking with a 10 X loupe.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[sidthecat]

I love flex to bits. My favorite pens are hybrids with 19th-century dip nibs. But I don't use them at their limits...they add grace and expression to my handwriting, but pressing them to their maximum sounds too much like work.