Is Paper Something I Should Pay Attention To, Or Not?

[Cassotto]

The more I read about pens and everything related to them, the more I am aware that paper is an important part of the equation, and a part I haven't started learning about yet. I'm a newbie as far as pens and inks are concerned, anyway.

But I feel curious about something. When you discuss the different brands and sorts of paper, does that mean you have batches of all of them, and use them depending on their purpose and the pen you intend to use at each moment?

I mean, I love fountain pens, but, in general, I don't use them for anything too fancy. Especially nowadays, when handwriting is much more uncommon. I write by hand a lot compared with other people, but not that much. I work as a teacher in a high school, so, to begin with, I use a normal notebook to keep track of what I do each day with each group. And I cannot picture myself buying an expensive notebook just for this. I also mark the students' exams and exercises, which means I'll be writing in any old type of paper they have, if it's homework I'm marking, or in cheap copy paper, when it's provided by the school. Then, I must sign reports, minutes, receipts... And in my 'normal' life I write sticky notes to remember things or to tell others something, I have a small notebook to write down messages left for others on the phone (yes, some of us still use land lines), have a couple of pen pals, and keep a diary. I don't do drawings or anything.

Among all these, only the pen pals and the diary might deserve investing in good paper. But my life is uninteresting, and I'm not the philosophical or literary type (as far as writing is concerned; reading is something different). This means my diary is of the pedestrian prosaic type. I suppose I can buy a high-quality diary book to write things like 'Been delayed one hour by snowfall', but... You know what I mean? As to my pen pals, I know they find it amusing to guess which ink colour I'll have used before they open the envelope, but that's all. I don't do calligraphy for lack of time to practice, and my handwriting would look almost the same if I used a ballpoint pen (anathema!). That is, it doesn't require anything special to look as it usually does, and I can't see why it should look any differently.

So, in short, my question is what reason there may be for me to start investigating on paper types. Maybe the short answer is 'none', but I'd like to hear your opinions about what it was like for you.

Thanks!

[Chrissy]

Paper is very important, and FP writers tend to try many different ones. Some prefer their paper to have a little "tooth" while others prefer theirs to be really smooth. Some like dot grid pattern paper and some don't.

 

I've tried various papers, and like to use different ones when I'm reviewing inks in the hope that someone will recognise a paper they use themselves.

[jmnav]

No, you shouldn't pay attention to paper... because paper is already quite good on bringing your attention to itself!

 

Jokes aside, @Chrissy is basically spot on. Given your activities, you'll probably find that not all fountain pens work OK (too wet or wide will mess with too open-pore papers, like recycled printer paper). Then, for quick notes you'll probably find that some papers most cherished round here (say, Clairfontaines) are too "glossy" and therefore, take too much time to dry.

 

But then, you are lucky as in Spain it's easy to find "average" papers quite good for what I presume to be your "standar use case", like Oxford or Enri. I also find quite useful Leuchturmm1917 A5 notebooks, which sport a bit more "toothy" paper than Clairfontaines: still very fountain-pen friendly only with better (but not spectacular) dry times -if only they made them on B5 format!

 

If I were you, I'd stick to Parker 51 full or demy or Pelikan 400, with F or M nib points and "dry-ish" inks, like, say, Parker Quink or Montblanc as the combination would provide you with a very good all-terrain solution. For your own notes, if you find A5 to be a nice size, I'd give a try to Leuchtrumms; for other sizes, almost any not-too-cheap anything you can buy on a hyper-market or even a chinese shop will do the trick. Of course you can/should also test something more fancy, if only so you can judge by yourself.

 

Oh! and last but not least, have a look at http://estilograficas.mforos.com/ if not already done so!

 

PS: "I use a normal notebook to keep track of what I do each day with each group. And I cannot picture myself buying an expensive notebook just for this". Expensive is a rather relative adjective. When you can buy an A4 notebook at, say 1EUR, expending 15 or 20EUR for basically the same functionallity certainly is "expensive" but, then, 15-20EUR every three-four months is probably something you can afford, provided it brings what you consider a nice return. And for a teacher, you already know it, showing some innocent "eccentricity" like a flashy notebook, a nice fountain pen, etc. can be made into a helpful "tool" to connect to your pupils!

Edited April 8, 2018 by jmnav

[cattar]

No.

 

Some people prefer to use the more expensive papers described as fountain pen friendly. As jmnav noted, they dry slower.

 

Some people use what's handy and purposely buy student composition notebooks or copy paper or use whatever is at work or handed to them.

 

I go through a lot of paper, so I use the composition notebooks, copy paper, newsprint.

For letters, I use Italian or Japanese stationary.

I write with a very light hand so most pen/nib/ink/paper combos work.

 

Do what works for you.

 

eta. I've found that inks that have some water resistance tend to have quicker/stronger water resistance on the less expensive papers.

Edited April 8, 2018 by cattar

[johnboz]

Paper is something that I used to largely ignore as well, but recently I've really gotten into paper and have learned quite a bit about it. In short, if you want to enhance your writing experience, pick up some decent paper. Of course, as a teacher you'll end up writing on a lot of different types of paper, but for yourself and your pen pals, having some high-quality paper can be a wonderful treat!

 

I wrote up an article about choosing the right fountain pen paper if you want to give it a read.

[Honeybadgers]

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

 

/sarcasm

 

Paper is just as important. You will notice the difference. IMMEDIATELY. Good paper just FEELS more premium and nicer in the hand, it's one of the easiest and cheapest ways to improve your writing experience. Put a mead five star in front of my $5 pilot penmanship versus a fabriano notebook with the same pen and the difference is night and day.

 

I don't give people a fountain pen without also giving them a simple notebook of good paper.

 

Not all expensive paper has poor dry times. Only coated paper does. Rhodia is a nice medium in terms of dry times, and tomoe can literally take weeks (but no ink ever looks as good as it does on tomoe) but something like fabriano or scribbles that matter have wonderful dry times, show shading, can even show sheen, but unlike cheap paper, can handle double sided writing with a firehose of a double broad.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Olya]

You do need good paper.

"Good" does not equal "expensive"!!

 

Bad paper is terrible for rollerballs and gels too, the only types of pen that can handle terrible paper (i.e. not bleed through) are ballpoint and pencil.

 

I have recently "invested" in good paper, one was a pack of 500 A4 copy paper sheets at 60gm² and it cost only some €4 or so. This should last me a good while (I wanted to try lower weight paper, kind of like "poor man's Tomoe River" without having to pay so much).

 

Also a block of 100 A5 papers, no name brand was one and another pack was by Hamelin, both costing €1 each.

 

All these papers are fantastic and made me appreciate ink all anew, because it really shows most (if not all) inks at their very best, plus gushers like my Pelikan don't immediately bleed through, like through the last batch of truly horrible copy paper I had before.

 

And don't think too much about the "worth" of your thoughts and writings, many "masterpieces" across all areas (music, film, philosphy, literature, science etc etc) were thought to be absolute rubbish by either the makers or their peers.

 

Oh and I also noticed what I've read about for ages: some nibs like certain types of paper and good paper tends to be good for all nibs and make the writing experience so much better.

 

Btw, I had some A4 Oxford Optik paper and it was terrible, loads of feathering and bleedthrough, the same paper but in A6 was wonderful however.... Oxford Optik is said to be most excellent and in one case it was most excellent and in another it was most certainly not.

 

Also if you use drier and finer nibs, then you can definitely get along very well with bad paper.

 

The last of the trifecta/ trinity (pen - ink - paper) that I became even remotely interested in (total lack of interest before and thought obsessing about paper is unnecessary) was paper and I am glad I finally paid some attention to paper and got myself good paper for really not much money at all.

 

Going by your flag, you're in Spain...? I don't know what brands you have there or how much paper costs (cheap but very good paper is easily available in many European countries), but if you have Lidl or Aldi and it's "back to school/ university week" or "office week" (usually coinciding with the start of new university terms and new school terms) they have tonnes of stationery supplies, amongst others paper in spiral bound blocks. Do buy these, I've found them to be very good paper! (bought a batch a few years ago and I still have some left, at least back then the paper was fantastic but cheap, and considering they are German supermarkets and fpens are still compulsory in Germany in school, the paper has to be somewhat decent at least; also going by the idea that German Lidl and Aldi export the same products - stationery - all over their shops across the world, because brands very often do not sell the same things and quality everywhere! As example, Nutella is different in many countries!! Also clothing companies don't ship the same type of quality across all their shops in countries!! Every country gets a certain batch/ quality; every country gets food & drink adapted to their taste - or what the company thinks will sell better in a particular country).

Edited April 8, 2018 by Olya

[LizB]

I love nice paper. It definitely improves the fountain pen experience. And I only buy what suits my needs (honestly). As you have broken down how you use pens, so have I, and how that affects my paper purchasing. I have a diary that needs to be fp-friendly. Notepads for notes and lists and thing are usually a small Rhodia bloc pad. I have a cheap notebook for work (but still decent fp paper, Oxford Optik which is something I can get at the supermarket). I have one journal for everything else, and that is usually a nice quality A5 one. And letter writing requires, for me, the best quality paper, and the one I tend to buy lots of different types of, for the fun of it. That's 5 different types of paper that I have control over.

 

I'm not sure what point I am trying to make.

[wasteland]

I happily use Mead Five Star notebooks (a basic school notebook in the U.S.) as my staple fountain pen writing paper. I also have no problem using Oxford 8x5" index cards for note taking and quick brainstorms. HP or Double A premium 80 gm² inkjet paper is my "nice" paper. Given a choice, I will try and avoid paper that feathers horribly. But that, too, sometimes is unavoidable.

 

To me, anything I write on paper is merely the first sketch of something I'm going to have to labor over later in a word processor, so I don't have much of an inclination to dwell on how pretty it looks. I use fountain pens as a concession to nostalgia that helps induce the desire to start the invariably tortuous process of writing. But almost nothing I write by hand is seen in that state by others. All my correspondence is by email. When I proofread, I use a mechanical pencil.

 

So the answer to your question cannot be unequivocal. It really depends on what itch you're trying to scratch by using a fountain pen and, therefore, the type and degree of graphic obsession you want to indulge.

[Runnin_Ute]

Good paper, but relatively inexpensive is 90 GSM or higher laserjet paper (inkjet feathers a ton). Made in Brazil composition books can be dirt cheap. For letters I use mostly Tomoe River, but sometimes Rhodia or Basildon Bond. I have both A4 Black n Red and A5 Leuchtturm notebooks. The TR I buy in A4 sheets, that way if I want to use A5, I can just tear it in half.

[Cassotto]

Hi,

Sorry for asking and then not answering for several days. I checked the forum on Monday, then copied all of your messages (except for the last one, which is newer) so as to print them and read them carefully while commuting... And then, on Tuesday, a technician came to install optical fiber for the internet connection... And left me internetless, phoneless and televisionless for almost four days! Gosh!

I've started thinking the paper I'm using at present is not that bad, after all. The Oxford or Enri notebooks jmnav has mentioned are all over the place here in Spain, and I've often used them. For my job, I like A5 notebooks, and at present I'm using a brand called Praxt'on with 90 g squared paper, since that's what is sold at the shop opposite my house. It costs €1.75 (at a 'normal' stationer's, not a Chinese shop), and it usually lasts exactly the entire academic year. I've never had bleeding or feathering problems, even though I favour web pens with a medium to broad nib.

After reading your messages and looking for information on those paper types you mention, there's something I find weird. Most of them weigh less than the 90 g my 'average' paper weighs. Shouldn't they be more prone to bleeding?

I think that I'll stick to the notebooks with 'average' papers that my fellow countryman has suggested, and also those sold at Lidl or Aldi (none of these near my place, though) since I can find them easily over here, and that I'll experiment a bit more with my diary and my correspondence.

What prompted me to start musing upon paper was that a kind soul who obviously loves me dearly gave me a bottle of Emerald of Chivor ink. I tried it and, of course, I saw no red sheen at all (funnily, johnboz's article uses this very same ink to show the difference when using different sorts of paper). I've had disappointments with other inks (for example, Diamine Grape, which looks almost black), so I'm willing to have a go a try different options even if they are more expensive than what I usually do (though, as you say, being 'more expensive' doesn't necessarily mean the same as being expensive in general terms).

I've got several ideas I'll try thanks to your very helpful and informative messages. Thanks a lot! I only hope I'll be able to find those papers in small batches, so I can try many before deciding on one or two for general use. I suppose I can even have notebooks made if I find loose sheets I really like.

One last question, any suggestion for writing paper with some sort of ornament? I haven't used that since I was a child and had lots of sets with teddy bears, sailing boats on a blue sea...

THANKS!

[Olya]

The gm² weight of paper doesn't determine its quality/ ink friendliness. Some very thick (high gm²) papers absorb ink like crazy and thus cause bleeding, feathering etc. and some thin papers (low gm²) are exceptional for ink, but that always means longer dry times (eg the famed Japanese Tomoe River at 52gm²). What is important is the coating of the paper (meaning its ability to kind of repel ink).

If ink doesn't bleed, feather and you get at least a bit of sheen, then you have good paper already!

That means that unfortunately buying good paper isn't all that easy (thinking "oh this is XYgm² so it's good!", sadly not so!).

 

4 days without internet/ TV etc: at least you had some peace and quiet!! A bit of a holiday in its own way

 

Re your latest question: I have no idea, but would like to know as well! I do know that you can have that custom made (see Etsy), at least one member here makes custom paper like that!

Edited April 13, 2018 by Olya

[TSherbs]

yup

 

this process of applying treatment to help with bleedthrough and feathering (and other paper qualities) is called "sizing"

[OMASsimo]

In my opinion the answer is yes and no. It all depends on the purpose of your writing. At my office I often have to make quick notes which don't need to be kept. For that I use whatever scrap paper is on the stack and I don't care much about bleed through and feathering. It's going into the recycling bin anyway. When I work out stuff for my research, which I want to last (usually deriving equations or noting down ideas, analyses, or observations), I use standard quality note pads. The fountain pen friendliness varies with whatever brand my university buys but I don't care too much. If the paper is poor I may use finer points and drier inks from my collection (I admit that this is a luxury).

 

It's quite different with my private writings because this is for my own pleasure or/and the pleasure of my friends. I look for high quality paper when buying notebooks because I want to enjoy writing in them and may want to read what I wrote many years later. I like to use laid paper for personal letters, some of it vintage from paper mills long gone. I love how this adds a personal and individual touch. Vintage paper is much more likely to be fp friendly than current offerings. Also, high quality is so much more fun to write on.

 

I made some excellent experience with Spanish paper. Most recently I bought a Miquelrius notebook in Madrid which is great. The paper is smooth and thin (70 g/m^2) but yields clean lines without feathering and bleed through even with my wet writing vintage pens.

 

I think you should just choose what suits your purpose.

[Cassotto]

Thanks for the explanation about the weight of the paper. Now I understand how a thinner paper may suffer less bleeding than a thick one.

 

I've been checking lots of photos, reading a lot, and now I see that my notebooks don't yield the best results possible, but I still think they're more than acceptable for daily use at work. My writing looks like this:

 

 

Now I can certainly see how the lines could me more defined, but to the naked eye it looks great. The pen I use has a generous medium nib, and is rather wet. It's an Ohto Tasche FF-10T, which is very convenient to carry in the pocket of my trousers (something I'd never do with any other pen). But what I'm sure about is that there is no bleeding (though some times there is very, very dim ghosting).

 

I'm totally convinced that I'm going to start trying new papers for my personal writing. In fact, I'm excited at the prospect. I haven't heard of any shop where they offer paper samples, in the same way there are ink samples, but if there's one, I'd love to find it. Are single sheets of paper readily available anywhere?

 

 

4 days without internet/ TV etc: at least you had some peace and quiet!! A bit of a holiday in its own way

 

 

Certainly! But, luckily, I'm not too hooked on any of those things. I don't watch much TV or phone a lot (I haven't even got a mobile phone); as to the computer and the internet, I use them primarily for working, so it's nothing I have missed much! (My visits to leisure sites like this forum are short and not too frequent, so I can live without them).

 

Anyway, an experience I recommend to anyone!

 

[Cassotto]

(By the way, if I ever end up being proud of the paper I use for my letters, I'll also start using sealing wax, something I've always thought I'd do some day).

[DrSam]

The gm² weight of paper doesn't determine its quality/ ink friendliness. Some very thick (high gm²) papers absorb ink like crazy and thus cause bleeding, feathering etc. and some thin papers (low gm²) are exceptional for ink, but that always means longer dry times (eg the famed Japanese Tomoe River at 52gm²). What is important is the coating of the paper (meaning its ability to kind of repel ink).

If ink doesn't bleed, feather and you get at least a bit of sheen, then you have good paper already!

That means that unfortunately buying good paper isn't all that easy (thinking "oh this is XYgm² so it's good!", sadly not so!).

 

4 days without internet/ TV etc: at least you had some peace and quiet!! A bit of a holiday in its own way

 

Re your latest question: I have no idea, but would like to know as well! I do know that you can have that custom made (see Etsy), at least one member here makes custom paper like that!

I am curious about how someone would make their own paper (Etsy?). Would they take printer paper and modifiy it, or have it special ordered in bulk? Making paper does not seem like a common household thing. I am interested because in Mexico I am always having to hunt for good paper.

[Torrilin]

Basically, to make your own paper you need a source of pulp or rag (the actual paper fibers), a frame, suitable sizing, and space to dry it. It’s not a very high tech process.

 

Historically the best papers are from rice, hemp, linen and cotton, depending on your culture and which plant was the most common. The next step up is animal skin like vellum and parchment. The next step down is cellulose from other sources, which usually degraded faster due to impurities. Mostly tannic acid.

 

A lot of artist grade papers are still made in this way. Most cheaper paper is made in a process that uses machines to handle a frame that is bigger than humans can, but they can still use the nicest fibers if they want.

[Cassotto]

I am curious about how someone would make their own paper (Etsy?). Would they take printer paper and modifiy it, or have it special ordered in bulk? Making paper does not seem like a common household thing. I am interested because in Mexico I am always having to hunt for good paper.

 

 

I thought Olya was talking about someone who did custom ornamented paper, not the paper itself, but perhaps I was wrong.

[Olya]

 

 

I thought Olya was talking about someone who did custom ornamented paper, not the paper itself, but perhaps I was wrong.

Yes! I meant ornamented paper, not paper itself!

 

Interesting to know that paper making isn't that hard, thought it would be more complicated..