Advice On Ultrasonic Cleaners

[ParkerDuofold]

...I'm not aware of a hygiene debate regarding vintage fountain pens. Maybe, my subconscious steered me away from such a topic.

Hi Omassino, et al,

 

Hhhhmmmm... ...I think your subconscious has mercifully steered you clear of it.

 

Actually,... there have been quite a few threads on it... so many, in fact; that after doing an on-site search for "soaking rubber" and scrolling back four pages... I still couldn't find the particular one I recall so well... and there was definitely two distinct camps on the subject.

 

We can also see from poor MRP's experience with his Pelikan that there is obviously an inherent danger or risk to exposing antique ebonite to water... or none of us would be here now.

 

I'll grant you, I can appreciate the paradox of a hydrophobic fountain pen... ...yet the problem/risk does exist... and here we are.

 

This is one of the reasons I avoid vintage pens in the first place... they're a real PITA... ...and since I'm more of a user than a collector... I prefer the ease of mind and use found in modern pens.

 

 

- Anthony

 

 

EDITED to fix HTML in quote.

Edited April 10, 2018 by ParkerDuofold

[Chrissy]

I'll grant you, I can appreciate the paradox of a hydrophobic fountain pen... ...yet the problem/risk does exist... and here we are.

 

This is one of the reasons I avoid vintage pens in the first place... they're a real PITA... ...and since I'm more of a user than a collector... I prefer the ease of mind and use found in modern pens.

 

 

- Anthony

 

 

EDITED to fix HTML in quote.

 

I tend to avoid most vintage pens too (exception Parker 45.) For me they are more trouble than they are worth.

[OMASsimo]

A good 70% of my numerous pens are pre-1970s and I have no trouble with them except with a very few. I ink them, I use them, that's it. Of the six pens I have inked right now, the youngest was made around 1960 (Pelikan 400NN) and the oldest 1928 (Parker Lucky Curve). Perfect daily users.

[Left FPN]

I purchased this machine 2 months ago.

 

Spec 20-80C, 60 minutes time + continuous ON.

 

It's been back to the factory in German once, for 3 weeks, and I have had to repair both knobs (outer ally detached from inner nylon hub) which the seller gave me a €5 refund on.

 

I cannot get it below 30C because when in use the water is heated by the (sonic) action of the molecules so trying to get it below 40C after 15 minutes is impossible. So I cannot see the point of the 25C setting.

 

It cost £90, would I buy another, NO.

 

 

 

UPDATE: I only put modern, laquered or plastic, pen parts in it.

[Ron Z]

I've read warnings elsewhere on the FPN not to put a Parker 61 section in an usc as it may dislodge the inlaid arrow.

 

I don't think that you need to put a 61 through an ultrasonic cleaner to have the arrow come loose. Sneezing in the same room can do it.

 

The same is true for the gold "plating" on third tier nibs.

 

There is I think an obsession about getting every bit of ink out of a pen when flushing it. Complete disassembly isn't even needed every time a pen is restored.

 

For general cleaning, some ammonia and a few drops of Dawn diluted in water followed by a flush with clear water before you put a pen away or when changing inks, does an excellent job. Shake the excess water out and you're done.

[Marcwithac]

I appreciate the varied and insightful responses (including the chemistry lesson). My takeaway is that a good quality ultrasonic (preferably one where the controls are not on the lid) is an effective, if not necessary, tool for cleaning and restoring pens, but there is always some risk with hard rubber, at least in the pre 1950s pens I tend to collect, that may have been exposed to UV light at some point.

[Tweel]

One qualification: it's not the ultrasonic cleaner that turns hard rubber brown. It's exposure to water, which the USC happens to contain.

[OMASsimo]

Well, as Ron Z already explained above, it's neither. Hard rubber is an isoprene polymer (natural or India rubber or synthetic rubber nowadays) cross-linked by sulfur atoms. UV light can break the carbon-sulfur bonds of the cross-links over extended time weakening the material and releasing elemental sulfur which can oxidize and form acid. This causes the brownish or greenish discolouration and the smell of old hard rubber. So, where does the water come in? Extended soaking in water can lead to swelling of the weakened material and sulfur can move to the surface both leading to a colour change.

 

If your BHR pen is disintegrating due to UV photolysis it's best to bathe it in an aqueous ammonia solution to remove the free sulfur and acid. After drying it can be rubbed with petroleum jelly or maybe silicon oil to protect the surface. That's at least what I learned about it over many years. Ron may correct me if I'm wrong about this treatment.

Edited April 10, 2018 by OMASsimo

[Tweel]

I've had black hard rubber turn olive-brown virtually instantly when exposed to water, something like a fast-developing photo.

 

I believe its the carbon black washing out of the UV-degraded surface of the hard rubber.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Tweel

[Ron Z]

No, Omassimo has it right. The damage has already been done before water hits the pen. Earlier hard rubber is more vulnerable, later hard rubber seems to be less prone to breaking down and discoloration.

[praxim]

No, Omassimo has it right. The damage has already been done before water hits the pen.

Yes, I have seen this, by cleaning in a USC a hard rubber section with no ill effects, where the section was from a faded pen which had never been immersed by me. Light-exposed parts fade, which water will exacerbate, while [mostly] light-protected parts can survive water.

[ParkerDuofold]

...If your BHR pen is disintegrating due to UV photolysis it's best to bathe it in an aqueous ammonia solution to remove the free sulfur and acid. After drying it can be rubbed with petroleum jelly or maybe silicon oil to protect the surface. That's at least what I learned about it over many years. Ron may correct me if I'm wrong about this treatment.

Hi Omassimo,

 

Thank you. This is very useful to know.

 

 

- Anthony

[Tweel]

No, Omassimo has it right. The damage has already been done before water hits the pen.

 

Yes, that's what I meant when I referred to "the UV-degraded surface of the hard rubber". But then water can discolor that damaged rubber immediately, rather than after extended soaking, swelling, and sulphur migration.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Tweel

[praxim]

If your BHR pen is disintegrating due to UV photolysis it's best to bathe it in an aqueous ammonia solution to remove the free sulfur and acid. After drying it can be rubbed with petroleum jelly or maybe silicon oil to protect the surface. That's at least what I learned about it over many years. Ron may correct me if I'm wrong about this treatment.

 

As I and others have discussed elsewhere, clear ammonia is rather hard to come by in some countries, just in case we decide to stop playing with vintage fountain pens, and blow something up instead. At my age, we are a dangerous lot.

 

So, what are the options please, for treating BHR?

• Will cloudy ammonia do in this case?
• What about making something up from Ammonium Chloride? I can get that from a tropical fish place.
• Ammonium Hydroxide? A local supplier asks you to buy a minimum of 25 Kg which sounds pretty bomb-worthy and perhaps 24.99 Kg more than I need, or it might be possible to get 500 mL in 4-6 weeks if it is allowed into the country.

[OMASsimo]

Sometimes I really have to scratch my head what's considered dangerous and what's not. Our drug stores still sell a 9-10% ammonia solution but they don't sell guns or ammunition. But let's not go there.

 

I think "cloudy ammonia" is simply an ammonia solution with soap in it. This may work. Ammonium chloride? No, it's acidic and wouldn't help at all. Ammonium hydroxide? This doesn't exist as a chemical compound but it may be a commercial name for ammonia solution. Read the contents label what's really in there or carefully smell on it or measure the pH with an indicator strip.

 

Good luck!

[praxim]

Thank you. I will try "soapy" ammonia, and also have a chat to our local pharmacist about whether I can sign up to be on a terrorism watch list, so to speak. I do not have access to products other than cloudy ammonia without buying them first.

[fullfederhalter]

A lot of good advice in this topic. There is another possible unintended consequence of using a USC--staining the cap and barrel. a couple of years ago I bought a USC and didn't realize that it is not a good idea to immerse barrels and caps. I placed a small silver Esterbrook dollar pen which had blue ink caked on the threads. After two 10 minute cycles the water was dark blue and the silver pearl cap and barrel had permanently turned a shade of teal. In this case I rather like the color, but I no longer place barrels and caps in the USC. Here's a pic of a silver Dollar pen and the one which became stained.

 

 

[Brianm_14]

Household "ammonia" is a dilute solution of ammonium hydroxide in water. This topic seems to bring the university chemistry professors out from their slumber!

 

Your druggist should be able to get you a very pure form, which you should further dilute. Or you might check with a hardware store, as it is used to strip wax from floors. Cloudy ammonia is often called "sudsy ammonia", a more descriptive term, and yes, it contains soap or detergent. A manufacturer (or their MSDS) should indicate what sort of agent has been added as a cleaner, and if it is mild enough, it might be okay for pens if diluted. But it likely a very cheap alkaline additive, and perhaps an effective but harsh cleaner, so best avoided. Clear ammonia, that is, plain ammonium hydroxide well diluted in water, is worth finding.

[Drone]

l bought a small inexpensive ultrasonic cleaner from ACE Hardware years ago. It works well and has been trouble free. I can't say if it is the best cleaner out there for the money, but I can say it has done well by me.

 

To my surprise, after reading your post a brief Web search turned up machines that look identical to mine still for sale - but on Amazon of-course! The brand names vary and prices range from $30-$40 USD, but I'll bet all these Chinese-made machines are the same inside. Here's a picture from one of the Amazon for-sale pages:

 

 

Here are a couple of links to the machines on Amazon that look just like my machine:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Ukoke-UUC06S-Ultrasonic-Professional-Eyeglasses/dp/B074J8VSC5

 

https://www.amazon.com/Magnasonic-Professional-Ultrasonic-Eyeglasses-MGUC500/dp/B007Q2M17K

 

My machine came with two important accessories: (1) A plastic basket to hold items being cleaned so they don't come into contact with the metal basin inside the cleaner. This avoids scratches and wear (read more about this below). (2) A bowed plastic piece that I think is used to hold watch bands or bracelets for cleaning, again to prevent contact with the metal inside the machine. The picture above linked from Amazon shows these two plastic accessories.

 

For fountain pens (and most other items) I usually use warm water in my cleaner with a bit of dish-washing detergent and/or dilute ammonia solution added. But I have used Alcohols or Fluorosurfactants in the machine where and when it is appropriate (do not use these with fountain pens unless you know what you are doing).

 

Do not let items being cleaned come into contact with each other. During the cleaning process unwanted wear can occur where parts touch. For the same reason don't put complex mechanical devices in an ultrasonic cleaner. Parts can wear and screws can come loose.

 

The basin inside my machine is bright shiny stainless steel. I try to keep it this way. The polished surface does not present microscopic pinning sites where cavitation may occur causing bubbles and/or foam that reduces the effectiveness of the machine.

 

It is not advisable to immerse body parts in an ultrasonic cleaner when it is operating. One way the ultrasonic cleaner works is through the process of gas/fluid cavitation. Encouraging cavitation in body fluids is not a good idea. That said, one way to check if your ultrasonic cleaner is working is to immerse your finger in it while it is on. Move your finger around, you may feel a mild tingling or even painful sensation. This test is not guaranteed. In low-powered consumer machines the effect is subtle; you may not feel anything at all even though the machine is working. Also, what you feel may not be due to cavitation at all but the result of the ultrasonic sound energy itself, especially if standing waves occur in tissue.

 

The controls are on the front of my machine just like shown in the picture; they are simple yet effective. I agree with the other posters, don't buy a machine with controls on a hinged lid. Flexible flat cables are pretty good these days, but why tempt failure.

 

Again, I bought my machine years ago, and it still works OK. But my machine is just a sample of one. The links above are to machines that look like my machine - I have no idea if they are still built the same way. However, the Amazon reviews of the newer machines seem mostly good.

 

And my final word: Ultrasonic cleaners are not a Panacea. Sometimes they work great, sometimes they don't. Sometimes good old elbow grease works best.

 

Good Luck, David

Edited September 20, 2018 by Drone

[Ron Z]

 

 

(do not use these with fountain pens unless you know what you are doing)

 

I think that perhaps we should leave off everything after "pens."