If I Love M800's, I May Also Love...?

[sirgilbert357]

Green: Aurora Optima

Yellow: Aurora 88

 

Very handy picture, thank you Andreas. I have to say I wish the grip section of the Optima were slightly less tapered and a bit fatter at the nib end, but it looks promising. I'll try to find one to hold...maybe at the Dallas Pen Show.

[sirgilbert357]

Aurora 88 had by far the worst nib I have ever seen in my life. Cheap Jinhaos and Heros are literally the best pens in the world compared to that one. I paid 680€ for it, it was the Nebulosa. The nib didn’t write at all. Lots of people seem to love Aurora though, so I must have been really unlucky.

 

Still, the 88 gets a minus from me for having terrible design for cleaning. It’s virtually impossible to properly clean it. Just a heads up, as noone seems to mention what a nightmare it is to clean it out. Perhaps you would find it good enough, if you’re not as pedantic about ink bottle hygiene.

 

Could you elaborate a bit about why the 88 is so hard to clean? I currently like the Optima too; does it have the same design that makes it hard to clean?

 

Edit: Nevermind, Driften and you talking back and forth cleared this up for me...

Edited April 4, 2018 by sirgilbert357

[invisuu]

I think he didn't understand me...the pen has a narrower section on the inside where the grip section is. So even if you remove the nib, it is still much more difficult to clean it out with a q tip for example, because you have corners due to the narrower section that you can't access. Pelikan, for example, doesn't. Also, the rubber stopper at the end of the piston holds a little extra ink in there. Aurora markets this as a feature; when you run out of ink, you twist the piston a little bit and get maybe an additional half a page worth of ink. The problem is, you can't clean that out. There's always a little extra drop that remains in there. Well, it's possible to clean it out, but it's cumbersome. Again, totally depends on how pedantic you are. You might not find this an issue whatsoever. Perhaps you don't change inks often or would dedicate just one ink to the pen? Then this is a non-issue entirely. When you don't change inks, a quick flush is good enough.

Edited April 4, 2018 by invisuu

[sansenri]

I would agree with most things mentioned

Parker Centennial, a wonderful pen, a vintage one even better

GvFC intuition Platino wood, lovely but somewhat different

Montblanc 146, not comparable size in the hand

Visconti HS wonderful but much heavier, perhaps a Visconti Opera, or a Voyager

Pilot 823, nice but possibly not in the same league

Waterman Man 100

Aurora 88, never had any of the mentioned problems, one of my favourites, several non blingy versions available

Aurora Talentum, similar size, perhaps not in the same league (but only due to the CC)

I would also consider Omas Paragon, Stipula Etruria or Fiorenza.

 

 

 

[Driften]

I totally understand and it has not been an issue for me. I flush my Optima out with water and don't use a q-tip or paper inserted into the body of the pen. To get the last bit of ink out is easiest if you unscrew the nib out so the post on the feed does not trap ink in the special plunger they use. If you just cycle water though the pen as if filling it, then you will take a very long time to clean the pen and it will hard to get the last bit out. When you are done and if you don't plan on refilling it, it may also be best to leave the nib off for any remaining water to dry out of the body.

 

I am just saying what works for me. I have had my Aurora Optima since 1/27/18 and have cleaned it out four times with no issues and no left over ink.

 

Enough said about it for a thread about what is similar to an M800, not how to clean special case pens.

[sirgilbert357]

I think he didn't understand me...the pen has a narrower section on the inside where the grip section is. So even if you remove the nib, it is still much more difficult to clean it out with a q tip for example, because you have corners due to the narrower section that you can't access. Pelikan, for example, doesn't. Also, the rubber stopper at the end of the piston holds a little extra ink in there. Aurora markets this as a feature; when you run out of ink, you twist the piston a little bit and get maybe an additional half a page worth of ink. The problem is, you can't clean that out. There's always a little extra drop that remains in there. Well, it's possible to clean it out, but it's cumbersome. Again, totally depends on how pedantic you are. You might not find this an issue whatsoever. Perhaps you don't change inks often or would dedicate just one ink to the pen? Then this is a non-issue entirely. When you don't change inks, a quick flush is good enough.

 

 

Ah, thank you for elaborating. Typically, I dedicate one ink to one pen for the long haul. Only rarely do I change up the ink/pen combo. That is good to know about the cleaning issue though...every now and then I still do a deep cleaning to get as much ink out as possible. This usually only happens when I've decided it is time to grease the piston though...

 

I could probably live with the cleaning issue if I chose this pen. I have "ways"...a little centrifugal force can go a long way towards getting ink out of hard to reach places (if it isn't dried up!).

 

And another one just came on my radar...Conid Bulkfiller...another one to research tonight. Very industrial looking, but fascinating all the same.

Edited April 4, 2018 by sirgilbert357

[sirgilbert357]

I totally understand and it has not been an issue for me. I flush my Optima out with water and don't use a q-tip or paper inserted into the body of the pen. To get the last bit of ink out is easiest if you unscrew the nib out so the post on the feed does not trap ink in the special plunger they use. If you just cycle water though the pen as if filling it, then you will take a very long time to clean the pen and it will hard to get the last bit out. When you are done and if you don't plan on refilling it, it may also be best to leave the nib off for any remaining water to dry out of the body.

 

I am just saying what works for me. I have had my Aurora Optima since 1/27/18 and have cleaned it out four times with no issues and no left over ink.

 

Enough said about it for a thread about what is similar to an M800, not how to clean special case pens.

 

Thanks for your input too Driften.

[sirgilbert357]

I would agree with most things mentioned

Parker Centennial, a wonderful pen, a vintage one even better

GvFC intuition Platino wood, lovely but somewhat different

Montblanc 146, not comparable size in the hand

Visconti HS wonderful but much heavier, perhaps a Visconti Opera, or a Voyager

Pilot 823, nice but possibly not in the same league

Waterman Man 100

Aurora 88, never had any of the mentioned problems, one of my favourites, several non blingy versions available

Aurora Talentum, similar size, perhaps not in the same league (but only due to the CC)

I would also consider Omas Paragon, Stipula Etruria or Fiorenza.

 

 

 

 

Nice pic! I'll look into the other Viscontis you mention. Really liking that Medici right now though. The brownish gold color reminds me of an Omas Paragon Arco Brown even if the pattern is totally different. And you mentioned the Omas Paragon actually, so great minds think alike. But those Paragons in Arco Brown are really hard to find and just so expensive...hard to justify value-wise for me. The last couple I have seen are around 1200-1500 bucks...

[invisuu]

Give TWSBI vac 700r a try before buying an expensive vac filler (like conid). Its similiar in dimensions to M800. I recently got mine. Not loving the design either from visual or engineering perspective (using o rings to offset dimensions instead of making the part correct size in the first place...really?), but the stub nib I got on it writes like a dream. No idea if I won the nib lottery, but that pen is in my daily use now. Plus, its pretty inexpensive.

[sirgilbert357]

Give TWSBI vac 700r a try before buying an expensive vac filler (like conid). Its similiar in dimensions to M800. I recently got mine. Not loving the design either from visual or engineering perspective (using o rings to offset dimensions instead of making the part correct size in the first place...really?), but the stub nib I got on it writes like a dream. No idea if I won the nib lottery, but that pen is in my daily use now. Plus, its pretty inexpensive.

 

A prudent suggestion. I've used a Vac 700 before. I borrowed Amberlea Davis' quite awhile back. She had a stub on it that had been worked over by someone quite talented. It was like using a melting stick of butter on warm glass. Hardly any noise, perfectly wet and smooth...it was nice. My preferences were different back then. I thought I was into smaller pens like the TWSBI Classic Mini and the SJ size of Esterbrooks. I slowly started using bigger pens and wanted to try the Vac 700. Of course, it felt HUGE compared to what I had at the time. Now I think it might be OK, but I'm afraid the grip section is a bit too narrow. I'd happily borrow one again from someone to see, but I'm not sure about buying one without handling one again.

[MHBru]

Following.... I have only pelicans. 3 m800s and a 205.. I've wondered if anything else measures up and appreciate the insights on this thread.

[KLscribbler]

The Pilot 823 looks OK, but I'm not sure if this can be had with a Falcon nib?

 

You can get a Pilot 823 with a Falcon nib from Asahiya Kami Bunguten, a brick and mortar FP store in Tokyo that also has an online store (their web page is called Tokyo Quill Pen Shop.) AFAIK the 823 with a Falcon nib is a store exclusive for them (unless one does a DIY nib swap, of course.) They also have 823s with the Waverly nib, in case that would be of interest to you. Stock can sometimes be spotty as it seems Pilot makes these exclusives in small batches for them, so if you go this route it would be well worth checking the website often, and sending them an email for stock estimates.

[sirgilbert357]

 

You can get a Pilot 823 with a Falcon nib from Asahiya Kami Bunguten, a brick and mortar FP store in Tokyo that also has an online store (their web page is called Tokyo Quill Pen Shop.) AFAIK the 823 with a Falcon nib is a store exclusive for them (unless one does a DIY nib swap, of course.) They also have 823s with the Waverly nib, in case that would be of interest to you. Stock can sometimes be spotty as it seems Pilot makes these exclusives in small batches for them, so if you go this route it would be well worth checking the website often, and sending them an email for stock estimates.

 

 

Thanks for the inside info. I've watched a number of videos about the Falcon nib since the inception of this thread and have decided, for various reasons, that I'd rather have either something with a normal nib or, if from Pilot, just a "soft broad" nib.

[vPro]

The Aurora Optima is an amazing pen and I think you'll like it if you like the Pelikan M800. It's slightly shorter, ever so slightly less 'girthy', much lighter due to a plastic piston housing instead of the brass housing of the Pelikan M800 but with a long and tremendously comfortable section and smooth threads. The pen is lovely and I reviewed mine here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/327656-aurora-optima-the-perfect-fountain-pen/

 

My first Aurora Optima developed cracks near the piston turning knob and a hairline crack along the cap. And Auroras customer service... well frankly, it is terrible. I sent my pen to Italy and waited four months only to receive a quote of €150 for a new barrel and cap. That's a lot of money for a pen with a defect in the material. On top of that, they did not even consider my request of having my black resin cap and barrel replaced with a blue Auroloide cap/barrel, for I would happily have paid their asking price if they would've accepted.

 

I eventually bought a Nero Perla cap and barrel from a great guy here on FPN and I still love my Optima - it's one of favorite pens and I love how comfortable it is to write with.

 

The Pilot Custom 823 is also a good pen with similar dimensions, but I have legitimate concerns regarding the longevity of the filling mechanism. The problem is simply that the blind cap is plastic and the vac-housing is metal. If you never disassemble your pen it'll last a long time because the metal threads are coated to reduce the friction. But if you ever disassemble your pen with a metal TWSBI wrench and damage the coating or even the threads, the threads of the blind cap will wear out in no time.

[sirgilbert357]

The Aurora Optima is an amazing pen and I think you'll like it if you like the Pelikan M800. It's slightly shorter, ever so slightly less 'girthy', much lighter due to a plastic piston housing instead of the brass housing of the Pelikan M800 but with a long and tremendously comfortable section and smooth threads. The pen is lovely and I reviewed mine here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/327656-aurora-optima-the-perfect-fountain-pen/

 

My first Aurora Optima developed cracks near the piston turning knob and a hairline crack along the cap. And Auroras customer service... well frankly, it is terrible. I sent my pen to Italy and waited four months only to receive a quote of €150 for a new barrel and cap. That's a lot of money for a pen with a defect in the material. On top of that, they did not even consider my request of having my black resin cap and barrel replaced with a blue Auroloide cap/barrel, for I would happily have paid their asking price if they would've accepted.

 

I eventually bought a Nero Perla cap and barrel from a great guy here on FPN and I still love my Optima - it's one of favorite pens and I love how comfortable it is to write with.

 

The Pilot Custom 823 is also a good pen with similar dimensions, but I have legitimate concerns regarding the longevity of the filling mechanism. The problem is simply that the blind cap is plastic and the vac-housing is metal. If you never disassemble your pen it'll last a long time because the metal threads are coated to reduce the friction. But if you ever disassemble your pen with a metal TWSBI wrench and damage the coating or even the threads, the threads of the blind cap will wear out in no time.

 

 

This is the kind of information I was hoping to glean from the thread. I was on the fence about the Pilot 823 anyway (don't like demos -- even if they are smoke or amber colored), so I have just scratched it off my list. In fact, the only Pilot still on my list is the Justus 95.

 

In case it helps anyone else, here is what I'm considering -- name of the pen first and then the grip diameter. My target is 11mm (perfect) to 10 (passable, but barely):

 

Pilot Justus 95, 11 mm

Aurora 88, 10.4 mm

Aurora Optima, 10.2 mm

Sailor Realo Pro Gear, 10.3 - 11.3 mm (smallest point to widest, respectively)

Visconti Medici Oversize (brown), 10.9 mm

Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze, 11 mm

 

Still need to research:

Conid Bulkfiller

Parker Duofold Centennial

Stipulas mentioned earlier in the thread

 

I might be forgetting some others. I know I looked at Franklin Christoph's stuff last night, but came away uninspired. I've owned one of their pens before and really liked it, but the section was just too small. They don't have much in the right size that really interests me...and I'd like to stick with brands that make their own nibs or at least DONT use JOWO nibs...

[invisuu]

Don't worry, I wouldn't pay 200EUR+ for a bock / jowo nib either. You can scratch visconti and conid then, heh. Also o rings on a 800EUR pen...meh.

[sirgilbert357]

Don't worry, I wouldn't pay 200EUR+ for a bock / jowo nib either. You can scratch visconti and conid then, heh. Also o rings on a 800EUR pen...meh.

 

 

Visconti and Conid use stock JOWO nibs? Say it ain't so...

 

I had quite a few issues with my TWSBIs and my F-C's ink flow tapering off to almost nothing after a page or two of writing. That is why I'd like to avoid JOWO nibs. I mean, you can take them apart and hack the feed to make them better, but it shouldn't be necessary on a nice pen. If Visconti or Conid have modified the feeds though, then I'd bet they flow better and I'd be fine with them. Also, I've never had a gold JOWO nib, so maybe there's some difference there...

 

I don't follow the O-rings comment...what are you referring to?

[invisuu]

Conid definitely tunes and checks the nibs. Visconti doesnt, actually they dont even have a nibmeister in-house. They just put on nibs on their pens.

 

Both Visconti and Conid use Bock nibs.

 

Conid uses o rings in their pens...on a 50EUR twsbi, an o ring is fine. On a 800 EUR conid...I dont know. I really like the innovative filling mechanism on conids though.

 

By the way...I realize almost every post in this thread from me is negative. Thats because you can find posiive reviews everywhere on the internet. Im just focusing on the negative stuff, because when I was researching these pens, I had to buy them and find it out on my own. You may find these small faults either more or less annoying than I did.

Edited April 5, 2018 by invisuu

[vPro]

I'm glad you found my post useful.

 

While I've experienced ink starvation on my TWSBI 580 (and I hate it for that, it starts out as a juicy writer and then becomes dry after half a page), I purchased an ASA NAUKA with a stock #6 JOWO nib. And on that particular pen, I was actually impressed by the performance of the JOWO feed. I installed a vintage flexible Big Ben #6 nib onto the JOWO feed and it kept up nicely - especially for a a nib/feed combo that is being supplied with ink by a converter!

 

The fact that Visconti's nib quality control is so notoriously horrible is truly a shame. And perhaps if more people complained and returned their pens instead of 'dealing with it', things would be different. But somehow Visconti can get away with it.

 

CONIDs are cool pens with an industrial design - but the price tag is difficult to justify. It's not just the O-rings, it's the entire pen. It doesn't feel cheap - quite the contrary - but it certainly lacks the luxorious gleam that such an expensive fountain pen should have.

 

The Pilot 823 also uses O-rings. There's one installed where the barrel meets the section. You wouldn't know it's there unless you've disassembled the pen

Edited April 5, 2018 by vPro

[sansenri]

 

Nice pic! I'll look into the other Viscontis you mention. Really liking that Medici right now though. The brownish gold color reminds me of an Omas Paragon Arco Brown even if the pattern is totally different. And you mentioned the Omas Paragon actually, so great minds think alike. But those Paragons in Arco Brown are really hard to find and just so expensive...hard to justify value-wise for me. The last couple I have seen are around 1200-1500 bucks...

To tell you the truth I dont have an Omas Paragon Arco brown either (I have an Ogiva Arco brown though ), they looked very expensive when I started buying pens some years ago although much cheaper than today

But even some of the vegetable resin Omas in the classic octagonal shape are nice pens, especially because they usually have nice nibs and feeds. Some of those can still be found at close to decent prices despite somewhat higher that they should, due to becoming rare.

Auroras tend to look aesthetically nicer though... and they do work pretty well too.

Viscontis also. I tend to prefer the older models which still had gold nibs instead of platinum, but the latter is fun admittedly.