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M600 - Too Wet (Need Help)

m600 too wet reducing ink flow

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32 replies to this topic

#1 Oshi

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 13:27

Hi all,

 

i just bought a M600 (with EF nib) on amazon.

Until now i am used to the new Parker IM models with a F-nib which i really love. (after removing babies bottom)

 

However, the ink flow on the M600 is much too high, it eats all the definition in my handwriting and produces hard corners on the egdes of the lines, even with the EF nib.

I read some other threads with the same problematics, but didnt come to a satisfying result.

This is what i got so far:

 

Ink:

Changing ink is not an option, since the ink is important to me (Montblanc Midnight Blue & Pelikan Tanzanite are prefered!).

What i dont get is, that people say Pelikan Inks are very dry. This is not the case with the "Premium Edelstein Tanzanite", this thing ist extremly wet, not usable at all.

How can they make Premium Inks not fitting to the Premium Pens inkflow wise. So i should use the cheap 4001 with a 250€ Pen, makes sense to me  :rolleyes:

So, i have to use the Montblanc Midnight Blue. I also tried deluting the ink with destilled water, but no major effect until the ink gets too light for my taste.

 

Paper:

I use Clairefontaine 90g

 

Nib:

I`m not sure if grinding the nib to a smaller size would help here. What do you think, i heard the Pelikan Service do such things for free?

I also tried out a M400 in EF, it was exactly the same size and ink flow, so its no specivic problem on this M600 pen.

 

Writing technique:

I`m writing quite relaxed with not much pressure. The angle is more flat, but this does not effect the ink flow negatively.

YqrZH5D.png

 

 

Writing sample:

here is a compairison, check out the red marked borders, looks ugly and comes from too much ink.

bfNSz0F.jpg?1

 

 

Can you help me out?

Thanks for reading, cheers


Edited by Oshi, 27 March 2018 - 14:39.


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#2 invisuu

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 15:04

Pelikan inks are dry...its just Tanzanite that isnt. Tanzanite is extremely wet and completely different to other inks in their Edelstein line (or at least the ones I tried, i.e. smoky quartz, aventurine, ruby, onyx, mandarin, topaz). Pelikan does indeed make wet nibs, and their inks tone them down a bit. Just not tanzanite.

Personally, Ive mostly given up on the hope that Pelikan will make a nice ink. I just Montblanc inks. Their blue black is boring compared to tanzanite, though.

For crisp lines, use Tomoe River paper.

Edited by invisuu, 27 March 2018 - 15:06.


#3 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 16:42

4001 inks are dry....

None of my 5-6  Edelsteain inks are all that dry.

MB inks are shading towards the middle...a tad wetter perhaps than Lamy inks.

 

Woolly line I'd not expect on 90g Clairefontaine. ...but you have a woolly line with the Parker also.

 

Look to get some Pelikan 4001 blue black a very dry great ink, or 4001 Black is dry.....but on poor paper it's not all that good with an EF nib***....but you are using good paper....so don't worry about that.

*** Some 'noobies' complained bitterly about 4001 black being gray....because they insisted on cheaping out with using PPoor paper with an EF nib.

 

I only have 7-9 blue blacks and don't even collect that color. :unsure: ESSR is a good one, lots of ink 110ml, inexpensive. 

 

Could try Clairefontaine Triumph (or Rhoda).....in I'd just about bet you are using Clairefontaine Velote`, a good paper I use often with no trouble.....and I do take out a 2.7mm / or 1 1/4th inch thick honking big magnifying glass when checking paper and ink.

I don't like a woolly line.

 

It appears you are holding the pen after the big index knuckle....but I'd call that 45 degrees, but never took a compass to check my angle like you.  It shouldn't make any big difference.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#4 invisuu

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 18:13

Please see this video from 13:36 onward. Microscopic close up of lines on various papers. Tomoe river without a microscope looks perfectly crisp.

 

 

I personally find Edelstein inks quite a bit drier than Montblanc standard line (not counting Tanzanite). For example, in my gusher IB nib, Tofee Brown is nearly completely dark, while smoky quartz shades nicely. However, some of my Pelikan nibs are dry enough for Montblanc to shade amazingly...and those nibs I love. 


Edited by invisuu, 27 March 2018 - 18:13.


#5 SenZen

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 21:41

To me it looks like the ink is watered down, like when there's still some water in the feed when you inked it. I am not accusing you! Just an idea.


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#6 sargetalon

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 02:49

Congrats on the M600!  Pelikan's nibs are very wet with a generous ink flow by nature.  The best thing is to find an ink that tames them.  Most Pelikan inks are on the drier side, Tanzanite being an exception as was already stated.  I'm not sure what you have against the 4001 line but they are effective at taming the feeds if not a little uninspired.  You could find a nib meister to grind the nib finer or adjust ink flow.  Pelikan does not offer such a service that I'm aware of outside of their Make A Wish Nib program.  What does the text look like at a normal reading distance and not zoomed in?  I hope that you can arrive at the pen/ink/paper combo that works for you.  Good luck.


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#7 bemon

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 13:20

Spoiler Alert- this will be no help at all. I just wanted to say I wish my Pelikans were wetter. I want thick, broad, wet strokes that take days to dry. That's all, you helpful people may now carry on. 



#8 Oshi

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 15:16

Thank you all, alot of very good info, i have to take my time to research all of it.

 

I will send the pen back, and do a little more research...

I just got a present pen from my great grandfather (Pelikan 400nn with a stub semi flex nib) and im stunned by it. I also love the wetness and apearing shades of the ink like Brent said.

If you are interested, here is the link to it: http://www.fountainp...andfathers-pen/

 

What im now looking for is a M600 body with a bi color stub nib (im not sure if there are just oblique nibs from 1997 on, and if i even like those...).

Its a really time consuming hobby, to find all the needed infos, since there are no pen shows or good fountain pen shops here in Austria/Tirol.



#9 minddance

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 15:18

From your picture, if Parker and Pelikan are filled with the same ink, then Parker is even wetter than Pelikan. The wooly lines produced by the Pelikan is caused by dry flow, not wet, because it doesn't provide enough ink to cover the grains of the paper. If you tune the Pelikan to write wetter, the wooly lines might be gone.

There might also be an issue of the nib contact with paper.

I used to have issues like this even on Clairefontaine but I increased the floe and spent time getting acquainted woth the pen to balance it properly.

But still, on grainy and rough copier papers, I still get lines with jagged outlines.

#10 Kalessin

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 20:01

In the post-1980 models, in series 100, 200, 300 and 400, he widest Pelikan nib you could get was a BB (double broad, non-oblique), which will have a little line variation, but isn't a stub which would have more line variation. 

 

There have been 3B nibs available for the M800 and M1000 pens, but they're rather rare.

 

Pelikan has also made steel calligraphy nibs, and more recently, Italic Broad (IB) nibs.


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#11 carlos.q

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 20:24

 

Its a really time consuming hobby, to find all the needed infos, since there are no pen shows or good fountain pen shops here in Austria/Tirol.

 

The pleasure is in the voyage not necessarily the destination...  ;)

 

Did you know about the Viena Pen Show? http://www.penshow.at

 

As far as good fountain shops, I don't know if this list is updated but you could check out these:

 

Graz

 
Schediwy - Sporgasse 6, Graz 8010, Austria - Described as a store with character, decades old, and a great selection of pens covering the range of price points. 
 
Fullfederhaus - M.Stortz , Radestzkystrasse 4, Graz 8010, Austria - A long standing store with a good selection of the top pens, in all price points.
 
Wiener Füllfeder Werkstatt
Grahofer Leopold; Kellermanng 5; 1070 Wien Telephone +43 (1 ) 513 81 50 
 
Wien/Vienna
 
TWiener Füllfeder Werkstatt
Köllnerhofgasse 1; 1010 Wien/Vienna
 
Mayr & Fessler
Kärtnerstraße; 1010 Wien/Vienna Austria 
 


#12 invisuu

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 20:34

Graz is kinda far from Tirol, Vienna even more so. I’m situated in südsteiermark, but over on the Slovenian side, and have the whole range of nibs except F for M800.

#13 Oshi

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 21:24

its about 4-5 hours with the train to vienna or from here in innsbruck.

the whole trip costs about 200€ with hotel room (pens ill buy are excluded :unsure: :lol:)

its a long wait until october for the penshow, but i think ill give it a try... thanks for the infos!

its kind of frustrading- it seem noone here is interested in pens and i feel like a nerd.



#14 carlos.q

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 21:42

its about 4-5 hours with the train to vienna or from here in innsbruck.
the whole trip costs about 200 with hotel room (pens ill buy are excluded :unsure: :lol:)
its a long wait until october for the penshow, but i think ill give it a try... thanks for the infos!
its kind of frustrading- it seem noone here is interested in pens and i feel like a nerd.

I hope you can go and enjoy the pen show. From where I live the closest pen show is a bit over 1,600km... :(

#15 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 21:59

One buys fountain pens so one can play with his 64 crayon box of ink colors....Alone At Home....and at coffee shops.

 

Even here in Germany fountain pen use is far less than it once was.

 

I'll send you a pen..tie tack to put in your Tyrolian/Alpine hat....Wenn Shoen, Dann Shoen! Flout It!

Humm, got to check it out on mine. I've been wearing my Schmidt hat too much....and it's still cool weather up in Heidelberg. I'll have to dig my dark green Alpine hat (Edlweiss Hut) out of one of my hat boxes.

On second thought it looks spiffy enough on mine............of course my wife might not like it, so I won't tell her. B)

Beats deer teeth...and a big bunch of pig whiskers I didn't harvest my self.

 

Look at how much money you save not having to buy the worlds newest handy every year......***

 

As long as you don't use a plastic pocket protector and don't have tape holding your glasses together your good to go; no Nerd. 

 

***to be invested in inks and good to better papers, and of course Grail Pens. :)


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 28 March 2018 - 22:00.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#16 Oshi

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 20:25

hehe ok, and what are Grail pens?  :D 



#17 chravagni

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 20:51

its about 4-5 hours with the train to vienna or from here .

I live in Südtirol and when I get the fountain pen frenzy I travel to Munich, there are some good shops there. And it is not so far from Innsbruck.

We used to have a good Pelikan shop here (Athesia) but since a couple if years it handles only Lamy and Mb. Pity.

(Edited to add: fine brands as well, but I'm more a Pelikan type)

Edited by chravagni, 29 March 2018 - 21:13.


#18 voltron

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 21:01

hehe ok, and what are Grail pens?  :D

Your most eagerly pursued or sought after pens.



#19 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 21:39

Pens you can not really afford right now..........pens that come after the 'Common Classic's.....like a  P-51 or a silver  cross hatched P-75.....Snorkel......

A Grail Pen.....something you didn't have money for and haven't seen since. Like that Osmia Deluxe.

There is always a Grail pen....in the Grail pen if you get it is no longer looked for like the Holy Grail.

 One of my Grail Pens.....a '30's Osmia Supra Deluxe. Back when I was sweating E 50 as a border of my addiction, this then nearly a decade ago cost E350..........cheap now for that price. A Soennecken 111 extra in herringbone cost E500, and the Soennecken 111 extra in lizard was 'only' E350.

I saw some pirate wanting only E1000 for that Soennecken herringbone  in the 'Buy Now Idiot' section of Ebay.

 

Do stay away from 'Buy Now Idiot'.....in if you Hunt....which is half the fun you can get the same pen for 1/2 that price.

Instant gratification is hitting your self in the head with a 'dumb' brick.

uCrUVHg.jpg

 

Pens I do have....the inlaid nib of a Geha 725. Was too expensive for me to even think of at E100, got it for only E50 from England....the next week two were for sale in Germany for only E-25. :wallbash:

Picture with permission of Penboard.de.....one should always get permission of the photo owner if at all possible.......It's only polite in one is using others work...for free.

WNJEM93.jpg

Top of a Parker Vac...'38 or so the blue diamond is important for that time....forget why....but it is. And part of the body.....a 'must' pen someday.

77uh3a5.jpg

J64jBm4.jpg

 

 

This is not a grail pen....for me, for others perhaps. A MB Limited Issue Virginia Woolf from 2006. A grail pen is something you have searched for. :drool:

 

I walked into my B&M...brick and mortar and it was on sale 1/3 off. I like the my eyes only bling of the nib. Not a across the table bling. I never even knew of it...so wouldn't have even thought of it....but it drew my eye from 10 meters away across the store.

My wife bought it for me for my birthday.......I forgot that 'our' money clause in the contract.....so wasn't able to buy a pen, a bottle of ink or even a sheet of paper for some 3/4ths of a year.

3zrdy3P.jpgYwbAN7v.jpg

 

This is still a grail pen....a Rolled Gold cap, Geha 760....and I thought I bid way more than enough....and was no more than third!!! :angry: :gaah: :headsmack:

So two of the photos' are my grail pens....the other could well be others grail pens...which change status as soon as you have it in your sweaty little hands...........King Arthur's Knight Galahad is still looking for his Grail Pen. :happyberet:

QG4SRYW.jpg


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 30 March 2018 - 11:23.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#20 Oshi

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:52

@ chravagni

thx for the info, do you have names of the shops for me? And do they have used pens also?

 

@Bo Bo

thx again for the detailed insight, its really helping! Also the ebay tips...

how do you recognize fake pens? lets see if im willing to pay so much money someday :rolleyes: :D


Edited by Oshi, 30 March 2018 - 13:03.






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