Music writing pen

[SaxMarc]

As a new member, I need some guidance from you most knowledgeable pen aficionados. I used to do a lot of music composition and copying by hand, many years ago. I do it mostly by computer now, of course, but I would like to practice up again. I have a no-name pen with an Osmiroid music nib that came with a set of italic nibs. I'd like to get a better pen with a good music nib. My daily pen is a Vanishing Point with a medium nib (although I'd like to try a fine nib for it...) if that matters.

 

I'd be interested in your suggestions for a pen/nib combination that won't cost excessive amounts of money . Thank you very much.

 

Marc

www.sweetthunderjazztet.com

[NeoTiger]

Most music nibs seem to come with japanese pens, in particular the Sailor 1911 (around $200), or the 1911m (around $120). Platinum and Pilot both have pens with music nibs too.

 

Something else you can consider is any pen with a wide stub. I recently got a Stipula Duetto with 0.9mm italic that writes very nicely. I think Stipula have up to 1.1mm italics.

[BrianTung]

I used to write a bunch of jazz fake charts; I used a Sanford felt-tip calligraphy pen and emulated the style in the original Real Book. (As far as I know, the scribe for the Real Book might also have used a felt-tip. Looks like it, anyway.)

 

On the few occasions I still write charts or take notes on a few riffs in my head, I use a pencil or a fountain pen with an ordinary F or M nib.

 

Sorry if that wasn't much help.

[TMLee]

As a new member, I need some guidance from you most knowledgeable pen aficionados. I used to do a lot of music composition and copying by hand, many years ago. I do it mostly by computer now, of course, but I would like to practice up again. I have a no-name pen with an Osmiroid music nib that came with a set of italic nibs. I'd like to get a better pen with a good music nib. My daily pen is a Vanishing Point with a medium nib (although I'd like to try a fine nib for it...) if that matters.

 

I'd be interested in your suggestions for a pen/nib combination that won't cost excessive amounts of money . Thank you very much.

 

Marc

www.sweetthunderjazztet.com

 

Try Sailor 1911M. Inexpensive but great nib.

 

 

[Sciopod]

The Platinum music nib (the one with the three tines) is fantastic.

[sleek_lover]

Nathan Tardif used to make a great frankenpen...Sheaf Triumph Pn/Ag nib recut into a music nib, fitted to a Parker Flighter pen and converted into a bulb filler...I would guess that is sorta what you are looking for...you might want to contact him to see if he has any left.

 

I don't do music, but when I am in an expansive mood, that is what I use...

 

Bill

 

And before anyone says PFUI...I have one...oldtimers will attest to the quality of Nathan's work...restoration and frankenpen creation..

 

BW

[ViolinWriter]

I do a lot of composition myself. I use a Sailor Music nib (1911) for most notes and figures, a fine point for some grace notes, accidentals, ledger lines and some figures. Sorry those Elysee pens aren't made any longer, but do show up on auctions from time to time. I use a Pelikan OBB or Pelikan Italic for some of the ties, and markings where I want line variation and other "pretty" additions.

 

I get the best results with Mel Bay manuscript paper and Pelikan Brilliant Black ink.

 

I do a first draft in pencil on ledger paper I print out through my word processing program (most Word Perfect programs have it) and fill in the rest after much playing and editing. I also tend to utter many bad words due to some chords and such not working musically, though they always seem like such a wonderful idea at the time.

 

Then I transcribe the "best of the mess" to the manuscript paper for a lovely final product. Then it's photocopy time and my students have new music to play. This is important for the older beginners who aren't all that keen on nursery songs as they learn the violin/viola/cello/bass.

 

If you need more information on what I do, please let me know.

[kissing]

This is important for the older beginners who aren't all that keen on nursery songs as they learn the violin/viola/cello/bass.

 

That's an excellent idea

[Paddler]

Nathan Tardif used to make a great frankenpen...Sheaf Triumph Pn/Ag nib recut into a music nib, fitted to a Parker Flighter pen and converted into a bulb filler...I would guess that is sorta what you are looking for...you might want to contact him to see if he has any left.

 

I don't do music, but when I am in an expansive mood, that is what I use...

 

Bill

 

And before anyone says PFUI...I have one...oldtimers will attest to the quality of Nathan's work...restoration and frankenpen creation..

 

BW

 

Hey, Bill,

 

How did you get two 1000th posts?

 

Paddler

 

[SaxMarc]

To All-

Wow-thank you for those great suggestions. And especially ViolinWriter for your detailed response. I'm primarily doing jazz charts, but they can get complicated sometimes. I have all the major computer programs for this (Finale, Overture, Sibelius) but there is something about writing a chart by hand that I miss sometimes.

 

It sounds like the Platinum or the Sailor 1911 is the way to go. I'll check it out and let you know what I come up with.

 

Thanks again.

 

Marc

www.sweetthunderjazztet.com

 

 

[ViolinWriter]

You're welcoome. I found that jazz charts often work best with a fine point doing most of the work when done in black ink on a truly white manuscript quality paper. That way the work is more easily visible for those players "of a certain age" in badly lighted areas.

 

I always remember this advice. Life, contrary to the song, is not a Cabaret. After all, who wants to spend their life in a smoke filled room populated by Nazis, troubled transvestites, and the odd member of the Resisitance. "Odd" of course being the operative word.

 

One other thought came to me. When doing some charts/composition, if I want to include directions for variants, I include them in a different color ink. Some players appreciate the variants written in a pale blue or gray ink. However, the gray can look like a penciled in, no options, direction to a player. If you are writing for a particular group, you might want to ask them if they have a preference in ink colors for various "options".

 

If I am writing compositions where the violin section is playing "divisi", I also use different colors, but never mixing pink and blue together. The kids seem to get irate when "divisi" appears as little boy blue vs. baby girly-girl pink.

 

Who knew?

[Mescof1]

Hi:

 

I'm a musician and composer. I've used the (probably get in trouble for saying this) Papermate Black Flair felt tip pen for music writing for years. Good and black on white manuscript paper - cheap and can throw away - and no problem if lost. For a fountain pen, and relatively cheap, I now use a Waterman Phileas with medium nib.

 

When I was with the C. C. Riders and working with Jaco Pastorius, most charts were done in pencil by the arranger. Just some thoughts.

 

Mescoff

Edited June 9, 2007 by Mescof1

[PenWorks]

Here is a set of dip music pens I made. More of a novalty to add to my collection, but it is alot of fun drawing with the staff nib, it makes some wild patterns. Takes a little practice to draw a straight staff as well.

 

 

[PAKMAN]

Tony, Neat Nibs!!

Edited June 10, 2007 by pakmanpony

[SaxMarc]

Hi:

 

I'm a musician and composer. I've used the (probably get in trouble for saying this) Papermate Black Flair felt tip pen for music writing for years. Good and black on white manuscript paper - cheap and can throw away - and no problem if lost. For a fountain pen, and relatively cheap, I now use a Waterman Phileas with medium nib.

 

When I was with the C. C. Riders and working with Jaco Pastorius, most charts were done in pencil by the arranger. Just some thoughts.

 

Mescoff

 

Mescof1-I played with a man in San Diego who often mentioned that he was Jaco's brother-in-law. He was a good drummer, if a little unorthodox. Since most of my arranging for my group or professionally is on computer, this is for my own enjoyment more than anything. Although, if someone wants to hire me to do music copying by hand, I guess I'd be willng, time permitting!

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

 

[SaxMarc]

Here is a set of dip music pens I made. More of a novalty to add to my collection, but it is alot of fun drawing with the staff nib, it makes some wild patterns. Takes a little practice to draw a straight staff as well.

 

Wow-those are cool nibs!

[Barbara Binder]

Edit: This post was made by Richard -- Barbara had logged into my laptop without telling me, and at midnight I was too dopey to notice. But I won the Hundred Year Pen set I wanted in the auction here at the Raleigh Pen Show...

 

Try Sailor 1911M. Inexpensive but great nib.

I must disagree. Sailor "music nibs" are not well crafted. Frequently they have poor flow, and more often than not the tips are shaped more like a roughly rounded box than like a proper music nib. (They're not very consistently shaped, either; this one may bear only a remote resemblance to that one.) I regularly regrind them for clients who are displeased with them. Here is the definition of a music nib from my site's glossary. Take a loupe to your Sailor music nib and compare it to the illustration here:

 

music nib A nib that is relatively flexible and has a tip shaped like a broad stub italic with very soft edges (illustrated below) to allow for extreme freedom of use, especially at very high angles of elevation relative to the paper, as when a composer or arranger writes on the music desk while sitting at a piano. Music nibs often have three tines to support a very heavy flow.

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/ref_info/glossary/music_shape.jpg

Edited June 10, 2007 by Barbara Binder

[SaxMarc]

You're welcoome. I found that jazz charts often work best with a fine point doing most of the work when done in black ink on a truly white manuscript quality paper. That way the work is more easily visible for those players "of a certain age" in badly lighted areas.

 

I always remember this advice. Life, contrary to the song, is not a Cabaret. After all, who wants to spend their life in a smoke filled room populated by Nazis, troubled transvestites, and the odd member of the Resisitance. "Odd" of course being the operative word.

 

One other thought came to me. When doing some charts/composition, if I want to include directions for variants, I include them in a different color ink. Some players appreciate the variants written in a pale blue or gray ink. However, the gray can look like a penciled in, no options, direction to a player. If you are writing for a particular group, you might want to ask them if they have a preference in ink colors for various "options".

 

If I am writing compositions where the violin section is playing "divisi", I also use different colors, but never mixing pink and blue together. The kids seem to get irate when "divisi" appears as little boy blue vs. baby girly-girl pink.

 

Who knew?

 

The different colored ink idea is a good one-both Sibelius and Finale do this to some extent on the computer, but I haven't done it yet by hand. Now I'll have to get some other color inks-another area to explore here! That's funny about the kids-maybe do it just to give them something to talk about!

[ViolinWriter]

You're welcoome. I found that jazz charts often work best with a fine point doing most of the work when done in black ink on a truly white manuscript quality paper. That way the work is more easily visible for those players "of a certain age" in badly lighted areas.

 

I always remember this advice. Life, contrary to the song, is not a Cabaret. After all, who wants to spend their life in a smoke filled room populated by Nazis, troubled transvestites, and the odd member of the Resisitance. "Odd" of course being the operative word.

 

One other thought came to me. When doing some charts/composition, if I want to include directions for variants, I include them in a different color ink. Some players appreciate the variants written in a pale blue or gray ink. However, the gray can look like a penciled in, no options, direction to a player. If you are writing for a particular group, you might want to ask them if they have a preference in ink colors for various "options".

 

If I am writing compositions where the violin section is playing "divisi", I also use different colors, but never mixing pink and blue together. The kids seem to get irate when "divisi" appears as little boy blue vs. baby girly-girl pink.

 

Who knew?

 

The different colored ink idea is a good one-both Sibelius and Finale do this to some extent on the computer, but I haven't done it yet by hand. Now I'll have to get some other color inks-another area to explore here! That's funny about the kids-maybe do it just to give them something to talk about!

 

Inks that I, and friends that do handwritten composition, have recommended, are listed below. In case you're wondering, I don't own all of the inks mentioned, but have relied a lot on information from composer friends. I'd have to break the bank many times over to have used even half of what is mentioned here.

 

Avoid Noodler's Eel inks for any music composition purposes. With Eel inks, finger oils and moisture on fingers, can make the ink smudge if players point to a passage or figure with fingers touching the paper. This is true even when the ink is dried for a few days. I think it has something to do with the lubricating properties of Eel inks.

 

For pinks, avoid the girly girl shades, which are all too light to be easily seen if the music is in bright sunlight or bad fluorescents. Such light inks would be the Herbin Rose D' Anton, and similar light shades. Noodlers Shah's Rose, a pink with gravitas, is great with even with a F nib. Diamine Claret, Diamine Scarlet, Pelikan Pink (which I've not found lately but saw it on Pendemonium a while back) or Herbin darker pinks/reddish shades (any of them) are all great. There are lots of other pinks with some real color to them from other ink makers such as Private Reserve.

 

Blues that work best for me are: Pelikan Royal Blue, Noodler's Navaho Turquoise, Pelikan Turqoise, Waterman (whatever they call it --I ran out a couple of years ago and went to others for experimenting) turqoise, Diamine Royal Blue, Diamine Prussian Blue, Private Reserve Wash. DC and American blues are all good. Just look for a blue that is clear and either truly turqoise or blue blue. The blue blacks don't work at all well if you have done the composition itself in black inks. The difference between the black and blue black isn't enough for most players to appreciate.

 

Oranges and greens also work well. Candidates for oranges are Private Reserve (any in the category of orange), Noodler's Summer Tananger, Diamine (any oranges they offer excep the lightest ones). Avoid any lighter orange though, as the orange and yellow disappear in bright sun or bad fluorescents.

 

Greens that word include Swisher Emerald (made by Noodler's) any Diamine greens, except the lighter Jade or spring-like greens due to lighting problems. You'll have good resuts with any Private Reserve green or Pelikan Green. Noodlers Squeteague looks green, but not in all light as it is so dark. It can appear black if you use a F or EF point.

 

I've seen some "notations that are hints" done in Herbin lighter blues, but again they can appear to fade away with bad lighting so beware.

 

Purple is a great color. It is gender neutral too. Pelikan Violet, Noodler's Concord Bream, Diamine Violet, Waterman Violet, Private Reserve (not tried but friends like their medium dark purples) and Swisher's Maroon (made by Noodler's) are all good. The Swisher's Maroon is more purple to me than red, but you can be the judge.

 

Reds that 'rock and roll' are Pelikan Brilliant Red, Noodler's Widow Maker, Swisher's Maroon and Diamine Scarlet are all good. Other composers that I know swear by the Private Reserve reds on Mel Bay paper. If you''re using HP 24# inkjet/all pupose paper will accept any red you want to put on paper without feathering.

 

I've only used Swisher Cocoa for a brown and it works very well on all papers. I've used Cocoa and Summer Tananger for the Thanksgiving songs written for various general music classes and my own students. Both color copy well on my "all purpose, multi function HP printer/fax/copier", either the OfficeJet 500 or HP 2410. Those colors didn't do so well on a Xerox color copier, but that was almost 4 years ago, so results for you may vary.

 

All other inks listed above copied well when run through a color copier at the schools I worked at. When I had Kinko's or OfficeMax do the copying for me, all colored inks came out brilliantly, though the wallet got too thin for my liking at the end of the project.

 

I've also used some very light yellows, Noodlers 'electric colors' in yellow, green pink or peach (highlighting inks) and such as a way to highlight a passage, notes or runs. For those highlighting tasks I use a "calligraphy" pen from Duke or the Sailor bent nib artistic pen. Both are available, dirt cheap, from ISellPens (Dukes) or places like Swisher (Sailor). I've also used Bouton D'Or and Rose D' Anton (both Herbin) for highlighting. As always, no affiliation to manufacturers or dealers mentioned in this post.) Be aware that the "electric colors" won't photocopy with any appreciable "electric" in the final product.

 

I hope this helps. Let us know how the composing goes with a pen in hand rather than computer keyboard. You can also add varous color notations after you've printed out the Sibelius or Finale versions, just to have a bit of fun. Believe me, the jokes can be worth any price of admission. Kids are great with colored music notation, and it does help them pay better attention to certain phrases.

[Penturner]

 

Anthony,

As usual, your turning is a delight to the eye, and most likely delicately balanced. However, the photography isn't quite up to your usual standards. Is that a snakewood and cocobolo set? Next question, are the nibs available through commercial sources or did you spend even more hours in the shop playing with copper sheeting?

 

Penturner

 

Here is a set of dip music pens I made. More of a novalty to add to my collection, but it is alot of fun drawing with the staff nib, it makes some wild patterns. Takes a little practice to draw a straight staff as well.