Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies



Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Black Pilot 823 Vs Amber Pilot 823 Disassembly

pilot 823 pilot 823

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 cynic

cynic

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze+

  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 March 2018 - 14:04

Hi, I recently got a black Pilot 823 and I have been unable to unscrew the section. I tried my hardest, even using Goulet grips for added traction, and it won't budge. At this point I'm afraid I'm not strong enough or if I apply more force it may break the barrel.

 

I have an amber 823 whose section unscrews with no problem.

 

My guess is that the black 823 has some sort of thread locker put in. I created this thread on /r/fountainpens and at least one other person said that their black 823 has a section that won't come off.

 

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Thanks.

 

 



Sponsored Content

#2 Driften

Driften

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,827 posts
  • Location:Issaquah, WA
  • Flag:

Posted 21 March 2018 - 17:12

Why do you need to take the section off? Pilot says all over the place with the pen to no do that. I have an amber one but have not tried to do it so don't know if my new one can or not. If it was me I would unscrew the plunger and do things from the back of the pen. It seems like the section side is where people crack their 823's.



#3 cynic

cynic

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze+

  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 March 2018 - 17:49

Why do you need to take the section off? Pilot says all over the place with the pen to no do that. I have an amber one but have not tried to do it so don't know if my new one can or not. If it was me I would unscrew the plunger and do things from the back of the pen. It seems like the section side is where people crack their 823's.

 

I like syringe filling it. I can control exactly how much ink I get in there, being one of the reasons I do that.

 

In my experience with the 823's it is much easier to unscrew the section than it is to take a wrench to the top of the pen. I'm careful to not over torque it and I add a bit of silicone every once in a while.

 

If we're not supposed to disassemble the pen, how are we supposed to grease the mechanism once the grease on it wears out over years? It's so easy to do it with the section off, similar to how one does with the Lamy 2k. Also, the Vac 700's, which encourage disassembly, can be lubed up that way.

 

I appreciate Pilot saying don't take it apart, I imagine that's there to prevent people from breaking their pen and/or limiting warranty claims.

 

You're right about them breaking form over tightening, at least that's what I've read numerous times. It's easy enough to not over torque it, though.


Edited by cynic, 21 March 2018 - 17:50.


#4 Flounder

Flounder

    Forum Moderate

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,982 posts
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 21 March 2018 - 18:06

 

I like syringe filling it. I can control exactly how much ink I get in there, being one of the reasons I do that.

 

In my experience with the 823's it is much easier to unscrew the section than it is to take a wrench to the top of the pen. I'm careful to not over torque it and I add a bit of silicone every once in a while.

 

If we're not supposed to disassemble the pen, how are we supposed to grease the mechanism once the grease on it wears out over years? It's so easy to do it with the section off, similar to how one does with the Lamy 2k. Also, the Vac 700's, which encourage disassembly, can be lubed up that way.

 

I appreciate Pilot saying don't take it apart, I imagine that's there to prevent people from breaking their pen and/or limiting warranty claims.

 

You're right about them breaking form over tightening, at least that's what I've read numerous times. It's easy enough to not over torque it, though.

 

I can't help feeling you've made a rod for your back here... you'll be unscrewing the section every time you want to fill the pen. There are plenty of eyedropper pens to choose from designed to fill the way you want. The 823 simply was not made to be used in the way you want.

 

Also - doubt it will be easy to grease the barrel end seal from the section end.


Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : vintage Pilot Elite Pocket Pen review


#5 FountainClogger

FountainClogger

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 March 2018 - 18:34

Hi, I recently got a black Pilot 823 and I have been unable to unscrew the section. I tried my hardest, even using Goulet grips for added traction, and it won't budge. At this point I'm afraid I'm not strong enough or if I apply more force it may break the barrel.

 

I have an amber 823 whose section unscrews with no problem.

 

My guess is that the black 823 has some sort of thread locker put in. I created this thread on /r/fountainpens and at least one other person said that their black 823 has a section that won't come off.

 

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Thanks.

 

I have an 823 amber, and the section unscrews almost effortlessly. If I may: forget this marketing ruse about "gripping materials", wear a pair of rubber gloves for washing dishes: grab the barrel, grab the section, unscrew. Proceed at your own risk.



#6 cynic

cynic

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze+

  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 March 2018 - 19:19

 

I can't help feeling you've made a rod for your back here... you'll be unscrewing the section every time you want to fill the pen. There are plenty of eyedropper pens to choose from designed to fill the way you want. The 823 simply was not made to be used in the way you want.

 

Also - doubt it will be easy to grease the barrel end seal from the section end.

 

I don't understand what "made a rod for your back here" means. I understand it is not meant to be filled this way.

 

There's a Lamy 2k disassembly video out there by Goulet, where he takes the section off and sticks a q-tip with silicone grease into the barrel and then actuates the piston up and down for it to pick up some grease and to then on out operate much more smoothly. That's what I would do with my 823 if I could take the section off and if it was not performing as smoothly as it was when new.

 

 

I have an 823 amber, and the section unscrews almost effortlessly. If I may: forget this marketing ruse about "gripping materials", wear a pair of rubber gloves for washing dishes: grab the barrel, grab the section, unscrew. Proceed at your own risk.

Thank you. This is a refreshing post after what I'm dealing with in a thread elsewhere about this.

 

I did try with nitrile gloves on and it did not work. I have given up on unscrewing the section. At this point I am just trying to get a definitive answer on what's going on and posting it for future reference.

 

Based on more information, I am putting together things that indicate that older manufactured 823's had unscrewable sections and that newer ones do not. My amber, manufactured in 12/16 unscrews effortless like yours. My black 823, manufactured in 10/17, does not unscrew. At least one or two other people have had the same experience with newer 823's.

 

May I ask when yours was manufactured?


Edited by cynic, 21 March 2018 - 19:21.


#7 FountainClogger

FountainClogger

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 21 March 2018 - 19:35


 

Thank you. This is a refreshing post after what I'm dealing with in a thread elsewhere about this.

 

I did try with nitrile gloves on and it did not work. I have given up on unscrewing the section. At this point I am just trying to get a definitive answer on what's going on and posting it for future reference.

 

Based on more information, I am putting together things that indicate that older manufactured 823's had unscrewable sections and that newer ones do not. My amber, manufactured in 12/16 unscrews effortless like yours. My black 823, manufactured in 10/17, does not unscrew. At least one or two other people have had the same experience with newer 823's.

 

May I ask when yours was manufactured?

 

The number stamped on the nib says 916.



#8 Matlock

Matlock

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • Location:Essex
  • Flag:

Posted 22 March 2018 - 20:10

Have I completely missed something here? Why on earth would anyone want to fill a vacuum pen by unscrewing the section? It just doesn't make any sense.


Peter


#9 Flounder

Flounder

    Forum Moderate

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,982 posts
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 22 March 2018 - 22:08

Have I completely missed something here? Why on earth would anyone want to fill a vacuum pen by unscrewing the section? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

The funny thing is, back in the day enough people in Japan that Pilot etc took inspiration from the Onoto pens, but ditched the self-filling principle. The shut off stopper was retained, without the washer.

 

Of course, this was with section to barrel threads appropriate for both ink tightness and frequent use.


Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : vintage Pilot Elite Pocket Pen review


#10 cynic

cynic

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze+

  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 23 March 2018 - 00:06

Have I completely missed something here? Why on earth would anyone want to fill a vacuum pen by unscrewing the section? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

No, you haven't missed anything. I like to control how much ink I put into it and it's cleaner. Plus, if the vacuum system ever fails one can fill the pen like an eyedropper by unscrewing the section. And I can use a q-tip to lube the vacuum mechanism...

 

--------------------

 

I think I may have reached a conclusion to this. I have reached out to an authorized US seller of the 823. They too have noticed that the latest made versions of the 823 have a section that can not be unscrewed, like the older ones could. They hypothesize that Pilot has deliberately done this to avoid people breaking their pen.


Edited by cynic, 23 March 2018 - 00:06.


#11 Inkling13

Inkling13

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 23 March 2018 - 00:57

A word or warning, if you do this, and it cracks our section, it will cost you $100+ dollars to replace, not to mention that it takes the pen away on a 2 month journey to Japan.
You will eventually crack the body, way sooner than the vac system will fail you. If you want an eye dropper, play with another models of Pilot, but not a 823.
I would actually like to see a post in a few months 😭😭😭with a cracked body where we can say we and Pilot told you so.

Edited by Inkling13, 23 March 2018 - 01:08.


#12 cynic

cynic

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze+

  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 23 March 2018 - 16:41

A word or warning, if you do this, and it cracks our section, it will cost you $100+ dollars to replace, not to mention that it takes the pen away on a 2 month journey to Japan.
You will eventually crack the body, way sooner than the vac system will fail you. If you want an eye dropper, play with another models of Pilot, but not a 823.
I would actually like to see a post in a few months with a cracked body where we can say we and Pilot told you so.

 

I've been opening my amber 823 like this for, well, since I got it. It's not hard to not over-torque something. You just have to mind what you're doing. I do recommend adding a little bit of silicone to threading when screwing back on.

 

I've also been doing this to my vac700R, and countless other pens that have sections/nib units, that allow changing and unscrewing. Oh, and my Lamy 2k. 


Edited by cynic, 23 March 2018 - 16:42.


#13 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,682 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 24 March 2018 - 07:08

It is actually quite easy to partially fill a vac pen without jumping through hoops.

Suppose you want to fill only half. Just pull the plunger out only half of the total length it will pull out, and push it in as usual to fill.

Same for other quantities. Pull out only 1/4 for 1/4 quantity and so on...

Also lubricatibg a vac seal is different from lubricating a piston filler seal. It is best done with the circumference of the seal accessible. Pls note the vac has an additional shaft seal.
In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

#14 Seiryuu

Seiryuu

    Near Mint

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPipPip
  • 28 posts

Posted 25 March 2018 - 09:36

It is actually quite easy to partially fill a vac pen without jumping through hoops.

Suppose you want to fill only half. Just pull the plunger out only half of the total length it will pull out, and push it in as usual to fill.

Same for other quantities. Pull out only 1/4 for 1/4 quantity and so on...

Also lubricatibg a vac seal is different from lubricating a piston filler seal. It is best done with the circumference of the seal accessible. Pls note the vac has an additional shaft seal.

You can also do a full fill and push out the excess



#15 Kodiac136

Kodiac136

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 137 posts
  • Location:Utah
  • Flag:

Posted 26 March 2018 - 14:53

It is actually quite easy to partially fill a vac pen without jumping through hoops.

Suppose you want to fill only half. Just pull the plunger out only half of the total length it will pull out, and push it in as usual to fill.

Same for other quantities. Pull out only 1/4 for 1/4 quantity and so on...

Also lubricatibg a vac seal is different from lubricating a piston filler seal. It is best done with the circumference of the seal accessible. Pls note the vac has an additional shaft seal.

With the added bonus of not cracking the pen  :lol:


"Why me?"
"That is a very Earthling question to ask, Mr. Pilgrim. Why you? Why us for that matter? Why anything? Because this moment simply is. Have you ever seen bugs trapped in amber?"
"Yes."

"Well, here we are, Mr. Pilgrim, trapped in the amber of this moment. There is no why." 

-Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five


#16 cynic

cynic

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze+

  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 28 March 2018 - 16:34

I think people misrepresent the amount of damage actually being done to pens. Certainly so by experienced people that open them up.

 

I saw this video the other day and I find its topic and discussion relevant to this. Q&A Slices: Should you remove the nib/feed every time you clean your pens?

 

Apologies, as I'm not sure how to embed videos here.

 

Thank you hari317 and seiryuu for the filling tips.


Edited by cynic, 28 March 2018 - 16:36.


#17 Flounder

Flounder

    Forum Moderate

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,982 posts
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 28 March 2018 - 18:42

I think people misrepresent the amount of damage actually being done to pens. Certainly so by experienced people that open them up.

 

I saw this video the other day and I find its topic and discussion relevant to this. Q&A Slices: Should you remove the nib/feed every time you clean your pens?

 

Apologies, as I'm not sure how to embed videos here.

 

Thank you hari317 and seiryuu for the filling tips.

 

There's both good and bad experience though? Your own approach to threadlock was to add more grip & torque... On the same note, Goulet pens have been around for about 10 years, so I'm pretty surprised Brian has damaged crusted nib & feeds by yanking them out, rather than soaking or running them through the UC till the dried up blockage lets go.


Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : vintage Pilot Elite Pocket Pen review


#18 JunkyardSam

JunkyardSam

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Location:Bellevue, WA
  • Flag:

Posted 30 March 2018 - 03:03

For what it's worth - I just got a third 823. This one is a clear 823 WA from Tokyo Quill Shop.

 

The first thing I always do with an 823 is remove the conical seal that requires use of the blind cap. I hate that requirement...

 

To my horror I couldn't disassemble the pen at first.  I quite literally made the decision "okay if I can't fix this issue I don't even want the pen." I decided to unscrew the pen by any means necessary, even if it broke.

 

Luckily it didn't. But this pen was leaps and bounds harder to unscrew than the other two.

 

I'm not saying I recommend doing what I did, by any means. I'm lucky this $300 pen didn't break.  But there can be some variation in regards to how hard it is to disassemble these pens.

 

I can't get the section unscrewed at all and I don't want to bad enough to risk it. My other two 823s (black and amber) disassembled with relative ease.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: pilot 823, pilot, 823



Sponsored Content




|