Additive To Make Inks Flow Better...?

[Tasmith]

For those experimenting with PhotoFlo to lubricate their inks... remember that the recommendation for use in photo developing (after wash, to help prevent water spots) was that the stock in the bottle be diluted 1:200 before use. Some use an even greater dilution.

 

So before adding this to your inks, dilute; distilled water is probably best. Or try the "dip the tip of a toothpick" trick. Or dip your toothpick in the diluted solution.

 

A little bit goes a long way.

 

It's available from your local camera store (almost as hard to find as a pen store) or by mail order from B&H, Adorama, and others.

 

From Sandy1 in 2011:

 

Hi,

 

I do not intend to derail or shanghai this Thread, so I shall be brief and forego the suggestions for wardrobe & accessories. To minimise measuring inaccuracies, this is based on workable volumes at low concentration. As this is rough work, please do not pick the nits of this Post in this Thread. If found useful, feel free to use it as a template/guide to generate other versions to post in another Thread.

 

Materiel:

• Kodak Photo-Flo 200 or Ilford 'Ilfotol'.
• Two syringes calibrated in ml.
• Three 50 ml (ink) bottles.
• Swizzle-stick stir thingy.
• Pen: Either c/c or Pelikan M-series or similar - with removable nib, piston fill and large ink capacity. The relative wetness to the 'target' pen should be known.
• Distilled / demineralised water.

Progressive Dilution:

 

Method:

 

- Step One

• Draw 2.5 ml of P-F; place that in empty 50 ml bottle.
• Add water to that bottle - bringing volume to about 50 ml.
• Mix without creating foam.
• Label bottle 'P-F 5%'.
• Stow P-F bottle safely away from children.
• Rinse syringe & stir thingy.

- Step Two

• Draw 5 ml of the 5%; place that in empty 50 ml bottle.
• Add water to that bottle - bringing volume to about 50 ml.
• Mix without creating foam.
• Label bottle as 'P-F 0.5% Solution'.
• Stow the bottle 'P-F 5%' safely away from children.
• Rinse syringe & stir thingy.

Tuning the Ink

 

Now comes the tedium, so take notes - at least a tally stick.

It is still trial & error, so ...

• Draw 10 ml. of the guinea pig ink; place that in empty 50 ml bottle.
• Rinse the syringe.

-

• Draw 1 ml of the P-F 0.5% Solution.
• From the syringe, add drops of the P-F 0.5% Solution to the gpi, and stir.
• Run a sample through the pen onto the intended paper after each dosing of say 5 drops are added.
• Flush pen repeatedly with each new mix before running sample of about 8x8 cm. Return ink from pen to the mixing bottle as you progress.
• Label the sample with the number of drops added, and retain that sample.

-

• If all of the 1 ml of the P-F 0.5% Solution is used without achieving desired results, then it may be necessary to go again using a 1% Solution.
• If few drops of the P-F 0.5% Solution are required, then it may be advisable to go again using a 0.2% Solution.

-

• Go a bit beyond the desired level of wetness, then draw 1 ml of fresh gpi and mix to total in the mixing bottle.
• Ink-up the target pen, and see how she goes.

=

 

I encourage Member/s to undertake the task of going through this or some other repeatable method; and post results with documentation, written samples, wet tests, smear/dry times, charts, graphs, etc.

 

I believe such a method may be quite useful to those using the Platinum mixing inks.

 

Bye,

S1

[minddance]

Yes, golden advice, as always, from Sandy1

[eharriett]

Last I checked, Anderson is still selling the Cuddles Flo (granted, was a couple months ago). I have both, although I've never used the Photo Flo for ink, I am learning to develop film and after watching it work, I can see why it is used as an ink lubricant. The Cuddles is also supposed to be an adequate biocide for newer inks too, which may be an incentive to get it. I use it with certain inks all the time. Does what it is supposed to.

[pepsiplease69]

Last I checked, Anderson is still selling the Cuddles Flo (granted, was a couple months ago). I have both, although I've never used the Photo Flo for ink, I am learning to develop film and after watching it work, I can see why it is used as an ink lubricant. The Cuddles is also supposed to be an adequate biocide for newer inks too, which may be an incentive to get it. I use it with certain inks all the time. Does what it is supposed to.

Thats great. Do you develop color or black and white?

[eharriett]

Thats great. Do you develop color or black and white?

Actually, both. B&W I develop as it comes since I use 1 time developer. Color, I usually bank up the exposed film since it has such as short life once mixed. I'm in the process of doing color right now. I'm still an amateur, but I'm getting better and I've learned so much (including, most recently, how the results I just got translate into "replace the light seals in your camera.")

 

It is kind of a side road from fountain pens. You and 10 other people write something and you're the only one with a fountain pen, everyone notices it. You and 10 other people take a pic and they all use their phones and DSLR's and post it, and you use your Yashica TLR with Kodak Ektar medium format film and post that, and your picture is unique.

[pepsiplease69]

@eharriett. Thats great!

 

Not wanting to derail the OP topic but I also work with film. Dont have the patience for c-41 though. I took a class to learn how to do it but never gone back to it. I get all of it processed at a local lab either here in Concord CA or I take it to a lab in Berkeley. I do really love the look of Kodak Portra 400 though.

 

I develop my b/w negatives by myself and scan using a regular camera after which I do a color inversion to get to the resultant image.

 

Im almost fully ready to start processing film at home. I have all the equipment.

 

Pushing Ilford HP5+ by two stops gave me some really awesome results last time.

[Corona688]

Some things I learned since coming here:

 

Glycerin is an excellent flow-agent, but use it sparingly as it just ... never ... dries. Glycol never dries either.

 

FrMark informed me here that Photo Flo is Polyethylene Glycol plus Triton X100. The glycol is just lubricant, X-100 is the surfactant.

 

Another popular surfactant in inks is Triethanolamine.

 

To get an idea just how much "stuff" should be in inks, we can look at the Pilot Varsity MSDS which lists 0.4% dye, 1-3% triethanolamine, 0.3% preservative, and (presumably) 96.3% water.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Corona688

[Maurizio]

Can someone - a chemist or otherwise science-minded person—here give us a comparison between the chemical composition of the Liquitex Flow Aid and Photo Flo?

[Corona688]

According to its MSDS, Liquitex Flow Aid contains CAS #9036-19-5 - the same surfactant as Photoflo, Triton X100. An MSDS is not a complete recipe, mind.

[Maurizio]

This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Thank you Corona I had no idea what an MSDS was or where to find it.