Jowo 14K Vs 18K Nibs

[Preserved_Killick]

I bought a Jonathon Brooks Carolina Pen Co. pen at the Baltimore Pen Show. It's nice. The steel JoWo nib is not as nice.

 

https://www.nibs.com/catalog/nibs/brand/jowo-65/condition/new

 

Looking at the gold #6 JoWo nibs from nibs.com, which I'm pretty sure would be adjusted before being shipped, I'm wondering how the 14k and 18k nibs might feel different.

 

Anyone have experience using these replacement JoWo nibs in 14k and 18k? Will one be softer or smoother than the other?

[Bo Bo Olson]

What is wrong with the steel nib?

....Was it OK when you tested it in at the Show?

Could be it was somehow knocked out of alignment. Do you have a 10 X good glass loup = 40 X Chinese one. A magnifying glass willl not do...even if you got a real big honking one.

 

What ink are you using?

 

IMO normally there is not a whole lot of difference between modern gold and steel.

 

Are you holding the pen behind the big index knuckle like a ball point or before it like a ball point?

Edited March 16, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[steve50]

Yeh...probably better to examine your nib first because Jowo steel nibs are very good and the gold nibs will be not all that different from it. I'm also very curious why Jowo gold nibs are priced at such high point. More expensive than gold nibbed pens like Platinum 3776, Pilot 74, Lamy 2000, etc.

Edited March 17, 2018 by steve50

[tinta]

I've had a little experience with the two tone, non branded, size #6, JoWo 18c nibs sourced from Classic Fountain Pens. Yes, your nib-unit (14 or 18 c) will be treated by nibs.com as if it was a pen. Your nib will be set up & optimized to your preferences then installed into a shop pen & tested before shipping.

 

I would have chosen the single tone 14c nib-sets if there would have been wider tipped nibs available in that choice of alloy. Unfortunately the size #6 JoWo 14c nibs only came in fairly narrow grades, not the best tippings for customization.

 

I ordered two JoWo's 18c factory stubs from nibs.com. Their tipping initially measured out to be around 1.1 mm, perfect for John to grind a 0.7 or a 0.9 mm. italic. Each of the nibs had excellent grinds from the shop & were adjusted to the 7 out of ten ink flow that I wanted. I then installed these nibs into an Edison Pearl & a F-C Iterum. These 18c nibs had excellent grinds & were perfectly adjusted, yet I just could not get used to their softer "feel" on the paper. (I've been used to writing with smaller sized 14c nibs, including a fantastic 50s Pelikan OBB.)

Perhaps I'm too heavy handed. Both nibs were sold with the pens.

 

That said about JoWo's gold nibs, don't discount their #6 stainless steel nibs. Properly ground & adjusted, these steel nibs can be just as good as gold.

Gold may not be your answer but it sure is prettier.

[Kolektor]

Is there at least a little spring to Jowo 18k nibs?

[tinta]

Is there at least a little spring to Jowo 18k nibs?

They are were nails but with a slightly different feel. The 18c nibs I had were all initially factory stubs, so no, they didn't have any spring. The reduced width italics that were ground from these nibs, though narrower, still did not change the original stubs' nature.

 

You might experience a softer feel, perhaps a little springiness with a narrow XF or F nib. With spencerian modification some 18c JoWo nibs may even acquire some flex.

[ak2k5]

Have used an 18k gold jowo and steel jowo. Both M. I haven't felt any difference. Yes both writes excellent, but I don't feel any tangible difference from steel jowo. No real softness or springiness. I have to remind myself 'hey this nib is gold and I have paid 3 times the 'money'🤑

[Bo Bo Olson]

A nail is a nail, be it 18-14K or steel.

Steel nails allow you to buy other nibs and or even full pens vs buying gold bling only.

[maclink]

I've had varied experience with steel and gold nibs.  Steel nibs, especially the recent Jowo nibs I have, are 'carbon paper worthy' nails.  OTOH, the Jowo 14k nibs have a little springiness to them in that you wouldn't think of using them with carbon paper.  I am sensitive to this difference and prefer gold nibs.  However, if either nib is properly tuned, they will write equally well.  I have medium-stub grinds on FC nibs (Bocks), both steel and gold.  I prefer the gold because of that springiness.  I don't try to flex either and admittedly, the steel version writes as well.

 

The nibs are like the rest of the pens.  There's really no need to purchase a pen over $50-100 is there, if all one is interested in is the quality of the nib tuning. 

 

Of course, we know this isn't the case. 😉

[Bo Bo Olson]

Maclnk, have you tried the steel nibbed  Pelikan 200, or Japanese 'soft' nibs?

 

Just to see if you are referring to semi-nail JoWo, or regular flex.

 

I have not found gold as gold to be softer than steel, depending on the era. My Osmia/Osmia-Faber Castel Degussa nibs are = be they gold or steel, semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex. Great steel nibs.....great gold nibs also.

1932 Degussa the gold producer of Germany took the Osmia nib factory for debt and continued making nibs (and selling them to others just like Osmia had) , for Osmia, later Geha and at the end of the Soennecken era. Degussa nibs with Degussa markings are great, though I've only one or two gold Degussa marked nibs and a half a hand full of spuerflex steel nibs.

I only have one Soennecken gold nib, a wet noodle. But I did have a loose Geha steel nib.that matched Geha's gold nibs. Swapped it for a couple Geha School Pens with a passed English pal.

 

The '82-97 Pelikan gold nibs, and the '85 to @ 2016 Pelikan 200 steel nibs are = in flex; both are nice springy regular flex. Again a very good steel nib that matches the gold nibs.

 

I have read Japanese 'soft' nibs are = to Pelikan regular flex though a tad more mushy.

I don't know Japanese pens, much less how their steel matches up with their gold nibs. (Unmodified) I'm sure they make steel nibs but  I don't remember much of my reading covering their steel. Just the Sailor 18 & 21 K nibs........that 21 K nib is one I'd never buy.....sooner or later I'd bend it.

 

I keep thinking in I've had gold or steel nails, still have a couple, that a nail is a nail........................what is hard, is one should test one's 'soft' gold nib vs a P-75 or Pelikan 400/600 in they are semi-nails so 'softer' than nails. I suspect any 'soft' gold nib of being semi-nail. If well mashed one gets 2X tine spread.....nails gold or steel  get 1X unless bent beyond repair. That's a one time bend.

 

[maclink]

11 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Maclnk, have you tried the steel nibbed  Pelikan 200, or Japanese 'soft' nibs?

My only foray into Pelikan 200 nibs was within the last 6 months.  My first was a non-gold plated M200 fine nib that I got soon after a M400 F.  The M400 nib was springy and the M200 not.   I think their nibs have changed (not only the tipping) because I have always read the opposite here (try it yourself I'll always say since you can only speak of what's in your own hand).  MontBlanc nibs are described by their era and time of manufacture.  I think the Pelikan nibs are the same.   Pilot soft nibs are gold and they are indeed soft.  So are the Titanium nibs.... quite springy.

 

I'm not saying that I've not tried or have steel nibs without springiness.  I'm saying that of late, in my experience, I've been noting Jowo steel nibs to be pretty much unyielding nails compared to their 14K counterparts.  I do wonder if this is intentional. Steel nibs that I've tried in recent times are the steel nibs on Leonardo Pens (Jowo) x4, TWSBI, Narwhal steel nib (what a nail!), Lamy (ideos), Kaweco and Pilot.... these come to mind.  I have two Jowo 14K nibs (springy though I do not try to flex them), Kaweco 14K (softer than the steel).

 

OTOH, I find the modern MB 149 18K nib to be a nail.  The same for Pelikan M800 and the Aurora gold nibs that I have.  The Sailor 18K nibs -- I have 3 and all are unyielding.... I say this since I will press on a steel nib to see how unyielding it is, but will not do so with an 18K nib.  If there is no springiness with normal writing pressure from my hand I just leave it at that.

Just when Leonardo came on the scene with their pens, I was an early adopter and recall the steel nib on that pen being pleasantly springy although there was an issue with the tines that required a replacement that I managed to pull off only recently.  The replacement was not as soft.  The last springy steel nib I used was on a Platinum Prefonte.

 

So the mileage will definitely vary.  From my own experience, I find gold nibs to typically, though not always, be softer than their steel partners.  This softness does nothing for my actual writing that I can discern so this is not at all a necessary feature.

 

The softness of the metal, whether gold or steel, does depend on the mix of the metals among other factors.  One would be inclined to think that the 18K nib should be softer than the 14K, but actually, the softer options and the modern flex nibs I've seen on offer are typically the 14K's.  My Narwhal nib is perhaps the most nail-like nib that I have..... it's truly tough!!  They make their nibs in-house and I wonder what is it that makes their steel nib so hard.  But then again, the nib is so well tuned that I like using it a LOT.  

[Karmachanic]

1 hour ago, maclink said:

Just when Leonardo came on the scene with their pens, I was an early adopter and recall the steel nib on that pen being pleasantly springy although there was an issue with the tines that required a replacement that I managed to pull off only recently.  The replacement was not as soft.

 

Initial nib is Bock.  Subsequent nib is Jowo.

[maclink]

4 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Initial nib is Bock.  Subsequent nib is Jowo.

The replacement nib happened to be a Bock as well.

 

My more recent Leonardo's came with as you say, Jowo nibs.  

[Karmachanic]

1 hour ago, maclink said:

The replacement nib happened to be a Bock as well.

 

Hmmm.

[Bo Bo Olson]

(Actually getting spoiled with a W. Germany 200 marbled gray OM, was easy enough. I've had that one for a while.) I remember close to 8 or so years ago, having decided I didn't need a 200 in I had a couple 400's.

I trans-mailed 200 nibs to a pal in England, in there were many E bay sellers Germans who refuse to ship outside of Germany. I tried them, and became impressed. They were as good as my '91-96 (tortoise) That better nibbed 400 was made until '97 in green stripped. Not needing a 200 but liking the nib got a 215....for years that was enough.....then I got a 200 in a live auction lot............now have 7-8 of the things.

 

Just tried my Marbled Brown 200 and my Petrol....difference is a couple of years, and the newer Petrol besides having that new for the 200's double kugal/ball is also stiffer.**

 

Modern 200's that I have, Amethyst, Ruby red; whose red glitter is more subdued than I thought it would be,,,,but I had ordered at my B&M. And the new Petrol. ** I may have swapped for a M nib on my Petrol; which I think I got in a B. So that M ended up on the Ruby Red.

The Petrorl's nib (Ruby Red) is stiffer than the other three.

 

The marbled brown EF and that is the only one of the modern four that has not got a double ball nib. (But I had asked Fritz for the thinnest EF he had in his 200's so it might have been an older nib. )

 

And it is only the M nib on my Petrol that is stiffer than the others, but it is not a semi-nail, it lacks the spring of the others.

 

Somehow I got spoiled with my 200 Pelikans (& 150 and 151) as a Springy regular flex nib....with out the double ball so wrote with a clean line.....

 

 

 I sold  it appears the better '90's marbled blue being sold to the guy I set up with the basic pens, regular flex 2 X in EF (1745)&M 200, a, semi (140 OB)i&maxi-semi-flex Geha School pen in F up stairs, ....

Or at least I ended up with a different cap for my old style marbled blue, whose nib is not as good as I remembered. It is like the double ball nib on my Petrol, stiffer than the rest of my 200's. It is not a double ball nib. So at least will write with a clean line.

The stiffer 200's nibs are not, at least mine are not semi-nail, just a lesser regular flex than I had grown use too.

 

When I won the two 200's in a live auction lot, I'd planned to sell the guy upstairs one for E-30, so I'm not going to sweat a E30 pen....that stiffer nibbed gold plated nib.

 

Thanks to Applebloom I got to date my newer 200's. Amethyst is 2015, Marbled Brown 2017, Ruby Star 2019 and the Petrol 2021. Time passes fast. And one ends up with more 200's than expected.

 

Considering the new double ball tipping.....well I do have enough pens..................been saying that for a hand full of years.

 

 

Even dug out my 150 and made for the Italian market green and black (like the old 120) 151, they still have the old fashioned springy no double ball nib I so raved about.

 

Times change, and if one don't check each nib .... thoroughly when bought against old assumptions..... one becomes embarrassingly wrong, when they ruin a perfectly good nib....and don't tell you about it.

(& one don't hear what others say because because of post count....been wrong on that a few times too. The fat nibs and the stiffer nibs of the 200 is one of them.)

 

All that time raving how great the 200's nibs were, and they changed to even lesser nibs than what my signature shows.

Old Pre '98 ....semi-vintage is as good as the semi-vintage gold nibs. After that...

 

So don't waste your money on the new pretty 200's with out a source of good 200's nibs one can swap in and out.

 

Right, it looks like my NOS W. Germany 200 is no longer safe from use.....first got to use my 150 & 151 again. Then maybe I won't ruin my display pen. I mean why display a 200 NOS set, when it is no longer NOS.

 

One of my older 200's (wrong cap) had a stiffer nib that expected, as was the new double ball Petrol nib. (Could be that Petrol nib had been on the Ruby Star....it don't really matter; both are new nibs.)

 

 

I will have to do a survey, to find out @ when did the 200 went over to being a double ball nib.