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Forever Drying Inks - Question

ink noodlers drying

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20 replies to this topic

#1 Strelnikoff

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 22:03

Hello fellow ink users,

 

I have a question about one issue I've been wondering about for a while now. 

 

I have noticed that some inks - if pen is not used for some time - when applied to paper, tend to stay wet for 5-10 minutes if not more. In my mind - this is almost forever.

 

This happens mostly with my vintage pens, and by "not used for some time" it can be anywhere between 3-5 days up to 10 or more days. Pens are stored properly.

I've noticed this with modern pens as well.

 

Most of the issues I have with Noodler's, J. Herbin... and Diamine too. When I use inks from big brand names (Pelikan, Pilot, Sailor, Montblanc, Caran d'Ache, Faber Castell etc) I don't see this problem.

 

Since I'm using either Rhodia or Tomoe River (Nanami) paper - for all my writing - and same pens, same conditions - I wonder what is the deal with this?

 

Should I consider using aforementioned "boutique" inks for shorter period?

 

What would be the reason for this?

 

 

I was thinking that maybe some settling occurs (not very likely) or carrier fluid evaporates thus pigment is left as a more viscous ink. 

 

It is annoying issue, I love Noodler's Habanero, Cayene and so on... 

 

 

Thank you!



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#2 amberleadavis

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 04:25

Consider this - overtime inks do evaporate and each of these inks have unique chemical compositions - thus inks evaporate at different rates.  When you go to use the pen after has beens sitting you probably see the color is darker. What you may not see is that the remaining ink has higher concentrations of surfactants and other chemicals.  I'd hypothesize that the inks that are slower drying just have more of the chemicals and dye remaining. I'd also guess that the more concentrated inks are slower to dry when left sitting.

 

My suggestion - only fill the pens partially full. 


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#3 minddance

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:30

Tomoe river and Rhodia are not the most absorbent of papers. If you change paper, your drying time might be significantly shorter.

I am sure some Sailor inks would also take a long time to dry as well under the same circumstances due to the saturation.

Not doubting your experience and report but I have stored my inks in some pens for 2 or more weeks with no such reported problems. And I don't use Rhodia and Tomoe river with them.

If the pens seal and preserve inks very well, 3-5 days unused is an insignificant amount of time. I live in a very cold and dry environment, no problem at all :)

#4 Strelnikoff

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 15:56

Tomoe river and Rhodia are not the most absorbent of papers. If you change paper, your drying time might be significantly shorter.

I am sure some Sailor inks would also take a long time to dry as well under the same circumstances due to the saturation.

Not doubting your experience and report but I have stored my inks in some pens for 2 or more weeks with no such reported problems. And I don't use Rhodia and Tomoe river with them.

If the pens seal and preserve inks very well, 3-5 days unused is an insignificant amount of time. I live in a very cold and dry environment, no problem at all :)

 

 

I don't usually see this issue with modern pens. Sometimes I go on vacation or or out of town, and after a month and a half - the pen and the ink are perfectly fine, no changes.

 

What kind of paper do you use?

 

Only conclusion I can make (so far) is that vintage pens are not sealing properly, allowing some evaporation. 



#5 Strelnikoff

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 15:58

Consider this - overtime inks do evaporate and each of these inks have unique chemical compositions - thus inks evaporate at different rates.  When you go to use the pen after has beens sitting you probably see the color is darker. What you may not see is that the remaining ink has higher concentrations of surfactants and other chemicals.  I'd hypothesize that the inks that are slower drying just have more of the chemicals and dye remaining. I'd also guess that the more concentrated inks are slower to dry when left sitting.

 

My suggestion - only fill the pens partially full. 

 

Filling it partially full - won't help if I don't use up all the ink quickly :)

 

But you are right, it seems that small manufacturers (boutique if I may call them that) use different method(s) and different chemicals. 

Maybe I have too many pens... 



#6 minddance

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 16:44

 
 
I don't usually see this issue with modern pens. Sometimes I go on vacation or or out of town, and after a month and a half - the pen and the ink are perfectly fine, no changes.
 
What kind of paper do you use?
 
Only conclusion I can make (so far) is that vintage pens are not sealing properly, allowing some evaporation. 


I am forced to write on cheap copier papers but when I have a choice, I write on Kokuyo (campus), Maruman, or a humble Muji notebook :)

I never enjoyed Rhodia and Tomoe River, have a few pads and notebooks lying around and write on them only when I want to see the ink colour and properties.

I guess some pens do not seal very well and evaporate inks and make them concentrated. More absorbent papers would help in drying times :)

My experience is with modern pens only, vintage pens are not my territory :)

#7 Strelnikoff

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 17:01

I am forced to write on cheap copier papers but when I have a choice, I write on Kokuyo (campus), Maruman, or a humble Muji notebook :)

I never enjoyed Rhodia and Tomoe River, have a few pads and notebooks lying around and write on them only when I want to see the ink colour and properties.

I guess some pens do not seal very well and evaporate inks and make them concentrated. More absorbent papers would help in drying times :)

My experience is with modern pens only, vintage pens are not my territory :)

 

Well, readily available copier paper - can be as good as Rhodia. 

 

I have no issue with normal paper and drying - it is mostly associated with higher weight/density paper with more clay. In fact, Rhodia notebooks with 80 g/m2 is not that far from copier paper :)  

 

I've completed bachelors and graduate school on copier paper (when I was lucky) and crappy dot-needle-printer paper... and anything in between :)



#8 amberleadavis

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 19:05

 

Filling it partially full - won't help if I don't use up all the ink quickly :)

 

But you are right, it seems that small manufacturers (boutique if I may call them that) use different method(s) and different chemicals. 

Maybe I have too many pens... 

 

 

Well, it sort of does because you have less ink to use up.  

 

And nope, you don't have too many pens, you just need to write / doodle more.


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#9 chromantic

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 19:37

​I had this same problem with Herbin inks on my BnR and Rhodia notebooks - take forever to dry (in arid desert air) and could smear after several days; drying time was good on regular copy but then there was the problem of bleed-through. I just stopped using them. 


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#10 Strelnikoff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 19:50

​I had this same problem with Herbin inks on my BnR and Rhodia notebooks - take forever to dry (in arid desert air) and could smear after several days; drying time was good on regular copy but then there was the problem of bleed-through. I just stopped using them. 

 

I've given up on Herbin inks for this reason. I have started using smaller brands (boutique)... first Diamine and then Noodlers. So all drawbacks of slow drying I've experienced were already slightly annoying - and when I've noticed this with Herbin - (Opera Rouge) I just gave up. Interestingly, I haven't had this issue with Organics Studios - but I've used sheen inks only so my sample is small.

 

And why I am still using Diamine and Noodlers? Because regardless of the drying thingy, they have significantly more shades and colors than any other manufacturer (namely big brand names). 

 

So far, reading through these comments - only thing to do is: use less ink and spend it quickly. 

 

But the question remains - why is this happening...



#11 Strelnikoff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 19:54

 

 

Well, it sort of does because you have less ink to use up.  

 

And nope, you don't have too many pens, you just need to write / doodle more.

 

:)))  I can't believe I even said that "I have too many pens" :))  

I'm using my pens daily, in the office, meetings, and when I don't have anything better to do. I just need to concentrate to use only 1-3 pens at the time (inked). And that is still a mission impossible for me. I like to use modern, then flex, then jump to vintage flex, then back to modern (F, M, B), then safety, then... 

 

The "process" is - if I'm in the meeting, and I need to take notes, then I need a fast writer with fast drying time. So modern medium or broad usually... but if I'm to write something at the slower pace, then I'll seek the "feeling" inspiration. Even more - if I'm at home and just feel like writing anything. Ah choices choices :)))  and adios money money ... 



#12 amberleadavis

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 21:34

IF it helps, I am a similar type writer but also want a ton of color choices. I resisted when Cyber6 told me to do partial fills, but she was right. I also switched to huge wet nibs. I am trying to use up all my ink during my lifetime.


Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

 

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Check out inks sorted by color:  Blue Purple Brown  Red Green Orange Black  Pinks  Yellows  Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal


#13 Strelnikoff

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 21:47

IF it helps, I am a similar type writer but also want a ton of color choices. I resisted when Cyber6 told me to do partial fills, but she was right. I also switched to huge wet nibs. I am trying to use up all my ink during my lifetime.

 

And I'm struggling to finish one bottle of Iroshizuku Yama Budo. I keep going back to it, it's still has some ink... 

In the meantime - I've increased bottles of ink... some will stay unused for years  :D  but this Yama Budo will be finished!


Funny, when I was in school and then in university, I would go through a bottle of Quink or 4001 in a month... 



#14 amberleadavis

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 22:03

Yes, but back when I was in college, I wrote about 15 pages full of notes per class.  So, I could have written as many as 45 pages in a day.  Now it takes me months to write 45 pages.


Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

 

Want to get a special letter / gift from me, then create a Ghostly Avatar  

 

Participate in the newest Inky TODs: 

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Ink comparisons:  The Great PPS Comparison  366 Inks in 2016

 

Check out inks sorted by color:  Blue Purple Brown  Red Green Orange Black  Pinks  Yellows  Blue-Blacks Grey/Gray UVInks Turquoise/Teal


#15 Drawing61

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 01:09

I've only noticed this problem with Noodlers but I don't intend to give up using Noodlers. I think it has a great deal to do with the paper I am writing on.


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#16 minddance

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 02:10

I have given up Rhodia, quite happily :)

#17 displacermoose

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 03:04

I have given up Rhodia, quite happily :)


Me, too. Midori, Apica, Campus, Marauman... I prefer Japanese papers by far. Not only does the ink actually dry while still showing shading and sheen, but the softer papers have more character in their tactile feedback.

Yet another Sarah.


#18 Torrilin

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 05:14

I’d definitely go to different papers. I’ve tried Rhodia and didn’t care for it. With even Lamy inks, the dry time tended to be borderline for my lefty self. It might be consistent paper, but paying a premium for consistently unusable is... not clever.

The paper Fabriano uses for their Ecoqua series is good. Maruman too, at least the basics and Mnemosyne. For bulk writing (as opposed to drawing) I’ve been doing Mead composition books, because this year’s batch works well with fountain pen inks. $5 during a back to school sale got me loads of paper.

I’d also look closely at trying to narrow the problem down to specific bad combinations of pen and ink. It doesn’t matter how pretty the color, if I can’t actually write with it it ought not be called ink. And as a lefty a 10m dry time means I REALLY can’t write with it. 20s is borderline. (There’s a lot of ink out there that I just won’t try because too many reviewers can’t get it to dry in less than 30s)

#19 dcwaites

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 05:38

Some pens do allow the water to evaporate from the nib/feed area, resulting in more concentrated ink there, as Amberleadavis said.

How quickly that happens depends on the pen, and how well the cap seals the nib off.

When I pick up a pen that is writing darker than it should, I hold the top of the nib against a folded (many times...) tissue to wick out the concentrated ink. Then, when I start writing, it is with ink at normal concentration, so it is the right colour, and dries as it should.


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#20 Strelnikoff

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:26

Some pens do allow the water to evaporate from the nib/feed area, resulting in more concentrated ink there, as Amberleadavis said.

How quickly that happens depends on the pen, and how well the cap seals the nib off.

When I pick up a pen that is writing darker than it should, I hold the top of the nib against a folded (many times...) tissue to wick out the concentrated ink. Then, when I start writing, it is with ink at normal concentration, so it is the right colour, and dries as it should.

 

 

Yeah, it seems it is most prevalent with my vintage pens. 







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