Precious Resin - Ongoing Debate

[Bluey]

Chlorine scores a 4 for biohazard, sodium scores 3 for flammability. Very dangerous stuff.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll ensure that the next time I make the dinner/tea then I'll don appropriate protective gear.

[torstar]

I understand the debate about what the MB 'Precious Resin' is actually made of, has been going on for decades.

 

I read this elsewhere and I wonder why no one has ever done this test once and for all to set the facts straight and true?

 

Take it to a lab with suitable analytical equipment such as FTIR and Raman IR spectroscopy and which has polymer analysis experience. They will be able to identify it for you.

 

"it's cheap bleeping plastic" claim the naysayers.... bless them....

[Corona688]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll ensure that the next time I make the dinner/tea then I'll don appropriate protective gear.

Quite correct. You can combine two dangerous things together and get something harmless.

[Matlock]

Quoting FPN member Vates from four years ago:

 

"For those who always wondered, according to the conclusion of the chemist, the so called "precious resin" of my '85-'90 MB is actually phenoplast based on phenol-formaldehyde: it is a carbolite resin with certain filler (which may be even wood chips)."

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/255063-modern-montblancs-weak-piston-lead-screw/page-3?do=findComment&comment=2893322

 

It's Bakelite! - or a descendent thereof with added precious wood.

 

"Bakelite was designated a National Historic Chemical Landmark on November 9, 1993, by the American Chemical Society in recognition of its significance as the world's first synthetic plastic".

​So now we know that MBs are plastic (as if we didn't know that already). However what really matters is that MBs are well designed pens, made to the highest standard and finish, so it doesn't matter one jot what they are made of as long as the material does it's job, and it does that rather well.

[Inkling13]

 

Asbestos is rather cheap and had been fairly common in its heyday. Only is it expensive now due to handling costs. They used it for fireproofing, insulation, strengthening as a filler, a filler in popcorn ceilings, breakpads, etc.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Inkling13

[Matlock]

Asbestos is rather cheap and had been fairly common in its heyday. Only is it expensive now due to handling costs. They used it for fireproofing, insulation, strengthening as a filler, a filler in popcorn ceilings, breakpads, etc.

 

As Asbestos is banned in the UK, unless sealed, should I destroy all my pens?

[invisuu]

Is there anything that isnt banned in UK?

[Matlock]

Is there anything that isnt banned in UK?

 

There must be a few things, but I am quite please that Asbestos is banned having seen someone die of Asbestosis.

[Corona688]

Asbestos is rather cheap

For a mineral. I doubt it's cheaper than sawdust.

 

And now you can't buy it.

[Michael R.]

Oh ... don't know why this is getting out of control ...

 

 

Please note that Bakelite ist much different from Polymethylmethacrylate (PMMA); yet both are plastics (polymers formed from synthetic or semi synthetic organic compounds).

Bakelite is made from different compounds, handles and feels different compared to PMMA and is rarely used today. Also it requires different production and manufacturing methods.

 

Montblanc pens are not made of Bakelite.

 

The used resin is PMMA with specific additives to adjust properties like color, gloss, hardness, scratch or impact resistance. Adding dyes, comonomers, fillers, plastisizers,... do the trick.

 

PMMA is also known as Lucite, Plexiglass (trade names) or acrylic.

And just like with all materials and matter (wood, leather, paint, cloth, food, metal...) there are more affordable ("cheap") or more technically sophisticated ("precious" or "expensive") versions of PMMA available.

To state "plastic is plastic" is like saying "metal is metal", "rubber is rubber" (ebonite!) or "coke is just sugared water"...


So yes, I like pens made from nice plastic just like I can appreciate a pen made from nice metal.

 

And if a pen is not worth the price it costs I simply don't buy it ....and I have a lot of Montblanc pens made from many different plastics.

 

 

Cheers and don't stop believing what you like

 

Michael

[Corona688]

Montblanc pens are not made of Bakelite.

PMMA ought to be heat-fusible, solvent-weldable, and generally translucent. It's also a lot farther from "porcelain-like" than Bakelite. It's also not very scratch resistant. And our one and only analysis turned up as phenolic. Do you have counter-evidence? I'm genuinely curious.

To state "plastic is plastic" is like saying "metal is metal", "rubber is rubber" (ebonite!) or "coke is just sugared water"...

Au contraire, if we hadn't insisted it was plastic we'd still have no idea what plastic. Now we're narrowing in on the truth. Edited March 6, 2018 by Corona688

[Matlock]

Oh ... don't know why this is getting out of control ...

 

 

 

Montblanc pens are not made of Bakelite.

 

The used resin is PMMA with specific additives to adjust properties like color, gloss, hardness, scratch or impact resistance. Adding dyes, comonomers, fillers, plastisizers,... do the trick.

 

PMMA is also known as Lucite, Plexiglass (trade names) or acrylic.

 

Cheers and don't stop believing what you like

 

Michael

 

 

 

Come on, members of this forum love to get things out of control, its half the fun.

Most "plastic" pens are made of some variation of PMMA and all pen makers can call it what they like. Precious Resin sounds so much better than PMMA, or whatever.

Cross refer to their bottom range as "Lustrous Chrome", it sound so much better than Chrome Plate.

Whatever the material that MB use is called, the pens are first rate and that is why we love them.

[Michael R.]

PMMA ought to be heat-fusible, solvent-weldable, and generally translucent. It's also a lot farther from "porcelain-like" than Bakelite. It's also not very scratch resistant. And our one and only analysis turned up as phenolic. Do you have counter-evidence? I'm genuinely curious.

Au contraire, if we hadn't insisted it was plastic we'd still have no idea what plastic. Now we're narrowing in on the truth.

 

Of course PMMA or any (most ?!) other synthetic resin are considered plastic.

 

 

No, I don't have analytic evidence handy like an accredited test certificate.

 

Even the company I work for offers plastic identification this is done at a different location; I've studied chemistry among others but specialized on food testing and legal compliance of food stuff so our location's equipment is not of help.

 

But...basic plastic identification can be done at a much lower technical level!

 

Burning test: PMMA smells "sweet" while Bakelite has a phenolic smell when burning.

And a little test I did just for you a few minutes ago is the "hot needle test":

 

heating a needle to red heat: when pressing this into PMMA it will "melt" a hole into the plastic; doing the same to bakelite it does no visible damage to it.

 

That's a fairly easy way to show different characteristics of plastics. It is not a proof that Montblancs resin is PMMA but it is proof enough for me to show that it is not bakelite.

 

 

But I fear that even we'd get a fully accredited FTIR analysis some will still not believe...

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Michael R.

[invisuu]

Oh ... don't know why this is getting out of control ...

 

I'm sorry, but I enjoy poking at people who are in love with brand names. I enjoy Apple and Montblanc products, but I enjoy poking their fanboys as well.

[Michael R.]

I got new secret information: black unicorn teeth

[Corona688]

A little test I did just for you a few minutes ago is the "hot needle test":

 

heating a needle to red heat: when pressing this into PMMA it will "melt" a hole into the plastic; doing the same to bakelite it does no visible damage to it.

I salute you sir for being willing to mar your pen for the sake of science. You've done more in one post to settle this argument than we've accomplished in four pages of spittle.

[Matlock]

 

 

But I fear that even we'd get a fully accredited FTIR analysis some will still not believe...

 

Cheers

 

Michael

 

 

 

Reminds me of the statement that the Flat Earth Society has branches all around the globe. The world is full of unbelievers .

[Michael R.]

...just a broken piece from the parts bin So no intact or salvageable pens were harmed.

 

The bakelite is from some kitchen ware I've picked up from a historic factory after watching its creation so I can be sure it's bakelite.

Still some Montblanc materials are left for identification.

Glad this was of help.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[DasKaltblut]

As a linguist, I've tried to hold my tongue, but I have to say that the best translation for English speakers for Edel- in this case is "of very high quality". Edel first meant of noble birth, and then generalized to mean high quality. Thus Edelharz is simply very high quality resin. Precious and the others are not wrong, and in fact may be correct for other words (like Edelstein) but they don't convey to English speakers the exact meaning of Edelharz. As to why MB made the choice they did, I will not speculate, but I have some German words as an example of the "very high quality" meaning:

 

(As mentioned before) Edestahl = Very high quality steel, not precious steel

Edelschimmel = Very high quality cheese mold, in fact of such high quality that it is edible. The English word precious really doesn't fit here.

Edelprostituierte = Yes, this is what you think it is. Precious? Not likely.

[jagwap]

Also from dictionary.com:

 

precious

[presh-uh s]

adjective

of high price or great value; very valuable or costly:

 

So where's the debate? This stuff costs a lot once it is turned into a pen by Montblanc, and many here value it...