Jump to content

Sailor Or Pilot Or Platinum?


max dog

Recommended Posts

For the best writing nib experience from Japan is it the Sailor 21K found on the KOP and 1911, or does Pilot or Platinum have a worthy contender to consider?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 53
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • max dog

    7

  • Bluey

    7

  • Olya

    5

  • essayfaire

    4

It might help if we knew what your definition of "best" is and what nib width you are are thinking about. I expect you will get different answers if you are thinking F then B. Also KOP is a larger nib then the large 1911/ProGear. It's going to feel a little different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure there are lots of contenders.

 

From Pilot there is the 743/823/845,Custom Urushi or the Namiki Yukari/Yukari Royale/Emperor.

From Platinum there is the Izumo family and the Nakaya family of pens.

From Eboya there are several great pens with nibs tuned to perfection.

There Danitrio and also Hakase.

Likely other as well.

 

My 21K nibs on the King of Pen or King of Pen Pro Gear or 1911s are nice but not better than the 14k Bock nib found on my Eboyas.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its kinda redundant. All three are superior brands with excellent QC. What do you like style wise? What are you looking in nib styles?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what's meant be "better" here, but the KoP isn't really better than the lower down Sailors, just different. As you know, the nib is softer and larger, but I've never seen any info regarding better QC between them and there probably isn't any real QC difference.

 

For the 14k vs 21k debate, I'm not convinced of any real difference between them in terms of writing experience. Some people will say 21k nibs are smoother while some people say that 14k nibs are smoother, so there isn't really any pattern or rationale for there to be any difference.

 

I consider Sailor to be a completely different animal to Platinum and Pilot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what's meant be "better" here, but the KoP isn't really better than the lower down Sailors, just different. As you know, the nib is softer and larger, but I've never seen any info regarding better QC between them and there probably isn't any real QC difference.

 

For the 14k vs 21k debate, I'm not convinced of any real difference between them in terms of writing experience. Some people will say 21k nibs are smoother while some people say that 14k nibs are smoother, so there isn't really any pattern or rationale for there to be any difference.

 

I consider Sailor to be a completely different animal to Platinum and Pilot.

 

These statements I agree with, based on my experience.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might help if we knew what your definition of "best" is and what nib width you are are thinking about. I expect you will get different answers if you are thinking F then B. Also KOP is a larger nib then the large 1911/ProGear. It's going to feel a little different.

 

 

I'm not sure what's meant be "better" here, but the KoP isn't really better than the lower down Sailors, just different. As you know, the nib is softer and larger, but I've never seen any info regarding better QC between them and there probably isn't any real QC difference.

 

For the 14k vs 21k debate, I'm not convinced of any real difference between them in terms of writing experience. Some people will say 21k nibs are smoother while some people say that 14k nibs are smoother, so there isn't really any pattern or rationale for there to be any difference.

 

I consider Sailor to be a completely different animal to Platinum and Pilot.

After I posted this it occurred to me I should clarify "best", but I was on the train and this was about the extent of what I could type out on my little phone.

 

For someone like me coming over from using mostly western fountain pens like Montblanc, Pelikan, Sheaffer, Cross, Parker etc, what Japanese nib might I enjoy best? I don't think an ultra fine nib will be my cup of tea at this point. My ideal daily use nib would be a western Fine, that is very wet, responsive, and smooth but not buttery smooth. Something with a nice tactile feedback balanced with smoothness so it does not feel toothy or scratchy at all. I like to see as much shading as possible in an ink when there is shading to be had. I like a nib that is as soft as possible. A little stubby or architect line variation would be nice to give my line some character, but a soft nib that can give line variation would be just as good.

 

I already have a Pilot Falcon Elabo SF, Pilot 912 FA, and Pilot 74 with a SFM. I really enjoy the 74 SFM nib, and when I use it I wonder if there is something along it's line but more. A 74 SFM nib on steroids maybe if that is possible.

Edited by max dog
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure there are lots of contenders.

 

From Pilot there is the 743/823/845,Custom Urushi or the Namiki Yukari/Yukari Royale/Emperor.

From Platinum there is the Izumo family and the Nakaya family of pens.

From Eboya there are several great pens with nibs tuned to perfection.

There Danitrio and also Hakase.

Likely other as well.

 

My 21K nibs on the King of Pen or King of Pen Pro Gear or 1911s are nice but not better than the 14k Bock nib found on my Eboyas.

Interesting about the Bock. My Yard O Led has a very nice writing Bock nib. Would the Eboya be along those lines?

 

Edited to add: How would the Pilot 823 14K SF compare to Sailor KOP 21K F? Like a soft, wet, responsive writer with a smooth but nice feedback. Which would be a more pleasant nib?

Edited by max dog
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its kinda redundant. All three are superior brands with excellent QC. What do you like style wise? What are you looking in nib styles?

I'm open to any style. Something that would appeal to a person use to nice western fountain pens. I really find the Pilot Custom 74 SFM a great writer, so is there something along that line that would give me more of that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what's meant be "better" here, but the KoP isn't really better than the lower down Sailors, just different. As you know, the nib is softer and larger, but I've never seen any info regarding better QC between them and there probably isn't any real QC difference.

 

 

As for the Sailor, I would prefer the softer the better, so maybe the KOP is the way to go for me over the smaller Sailor nibs.

Edited by max dog
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't decide between the Japanese brands so I got one from each. Sailor pro gear M, Pilot 823 F and Platinum 3776 SF. All from a HK reseller.

 

If I like them, next on the list would be their flag ship pens with a music nib. Custom 845, KOP and Century.

Edited by Hongkongfp
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

After I posted this it occurred to me I should clarify "best", but I was on the train and this was about the extent of what I could type out on my little phone.

 

For someone like me coming over from using mostly western fountain pens like Montblanc, Pelikan, Sheaffer, Cross, Parker etc, what Japanese nib might I enjoy best? I don't think an ultra fine nib will be my cup of tea at this point. My ideal daily use nib would be a western Fine, that is very wet, responsive, and smooth but not buttery smooth. Something with a nice tactile feedback balanced with smoothness so it does not feel toothy or scratchy at all. I like to see as much shading as possible in an ink when there is shading to be had. I like a nib that is as soft as possible. A little stubby or architect line variation would be nice to give my line some character, but a soft nib that can give line variation would be just as good.

 

I already have a Pilot Falcon Elabo SF, Pilot 912 FA, and Pilot 74 with a SFM. I really enjoy the 74 SFM nib, and when I use it I wonder if there is something along it's line but more. A 74 SFM nib on steroids maybe if that is possible.

Hi Max Dog, I have the Pilot 74sfm and find it very pleasant indeed. Out of curiosity, I am eager to know how and by how much the 74sfm could be bettered by other Japanese pens because Sailor and Platinum write very very differently. The sfm nib in my limited experience is quite a sweet spot in Pilot's gold nib collection.

 

You mentioned the search for a "74sfm on steroids", what might we be looking for here? Would it be an even softer and wetter nib? Or a larger pen? Or better filling system?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting about the Bock. My Yard O Led has a very nice writing Bock nib. Would the Eboya be along those lines?

 

Edited to add: How would the Pilot 823 14K SF compare to Sailor KOP 21K F? Like a soft, wet, responsive writer with a smooth but nice feedback. Which would be a more pleasant nib?

I have not found enough difference between any of the nibs from the Japanese brands to prefer one over the others. They have all been quite nice.

 

My Website

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for the Sailor, I would prefer the softer the better, so maybe the KOP is the way to go for me over the smaller Sailor nibs.

 

 

 

 

After I posted this it occurred to me I should clarify "best", but I was on the train and this was about the extent of what I could type out on my little phone.

 

For someone like me coming over from using mostly western fountain pens like Montblanc, Pelikan, Sheaffer, Cross, Parker etc, what Japanese nib might I enjoy best? I don't think an ultra fine nib will be my cup of tea at this point. My ideal daily use nib would be a western Fine, that is very wet, responsive, and smooth but not buttery smooth. Something with a nice tactile feedback balanced with smoothness so it does not feel toothy or scratchy at all. I like to see as much shading as possible in an ink when there is shading to be had. I like a nib that is as soft as possible. A little stubby or architect line variation would be nice to give my line some character, but a soft nib that can give line variation would be just as good.

 

I already have a Pilot Falcon Elabo SF, Pilot 912 FA, and Pilot 74 with a SFM. I really enjoy the 74 SFM nib, and when I use it I wonder if there is something along it's line but more. A 74 SFM nib on steroids maybe if that is possible.

The Sailor KoP is typically available in medium and so that may suit you, as you say that you want something a little wider, has a little bit of feedback, and with some softness. The other Sailors won't suit you, not just because of their lack of softness but because their nibs are wonderful but an acquired taste.

I find that the nibs of medium and above are somewhat round, whereas the ones below that are very slightly stubby. You will likely get more shading on the ones below medium, but with the KoP the softness will give you the shading that you like because of the changes in pressure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Sailor KoP is typically available in medium and so that may suit you, as you say that you want something a little wider, has a little bit of feedback, and with some softness. The other Sailors won't suit you, not just because of their lack of softness but because their nibs are wonderful but an acquired taste.

 

 

I keep reading things like this about their nibs & my curiosity is piqued. Would you please expand on the nature of this "acquired taste"?

 

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I keep reading things like this about their nibs & my curiosity is piqued. Would you please expand on the nature of this "acquired taste"?

 

Thanks.

Certainly. When you first writing with them you think "WTH" because they don't feel like most other nibs, but then after a few pages and the more you write, the deeper and stronger the magic spell starts to weave.

 

I think it may have been a nibmeister named John S. who first brought my awareness(I was going to get around to Sailors eventually anyway because my intention was always to try out everything in the fountain pen multiverse) to Sailor nibs a few years ago at a pen show as he seemed to regard them very very highly as what the best nibs should be like. I bought my first Sailor shortly after.

 

I remember reading one account of a fellow maybe here or elsewhere who claimed that he bought 3 Sailors, one after the other, and each one he described as being "unusable" and, thus, promptly sent it off to Pendleton Brown to have it 'fixed'.

 

It's quite likely though that, being focused solely on Pelikans, he simply misunderstood Sailor nibs in the same way that a stone age man will misunderstand and misinterpret electricity. Anything that isn't overpolished, characterless, comes with the inevitable babys bottom, and has a large football dangling on the end of his nib is perhaps alien and foreign to the gentleman in question, as he may have perhaps come to interpret that as being the norm in fountain pen nibs.

 

It's rarely a good idea to limit oneself to only one brand without having tried and owned a plentiful supply of the full range of nibs out there, which enables one to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

Sadly, it appears for this person that he was too fixed and closed in his ways to ever acquire a taste for Sailors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Bluey. That gets at what I'm looking for, but I want a bit more. But I see you have already provided that in another thread, "Sailor, Platinum, Pilot Or A New Nib?". So double thanks.

 

There is only so much that words can get across, so It seems clear I will need to feel this for myself sooner or later by trying one out in my own hand. You have also provided some subjective recommendations in that other thread that I will consider.

 

And jar I appreciate your matter of fact even-keeled statement that I know is based on your subjective experience with a variety (wide, I think) of this realm of pens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Bluey. That gets at what I'm looking for, but I want a bit more. But I see you have already provided that in another thread, "Sailor, Platinum, Pilot Or A New Nib?". So double thanks.

 

There is only so much that words can get across, so It seems clear I will need to feel this for myself sooner or later by trying one out in my own hand. You have also provided some subjective recommendations in that other thread that I will consider.

 

And jar I appreciate your matter of fact even-keeled statement that I know is based on your subjective experience with a variety (wide, I think) of this realm of pens.

I wasn't sure of what you were wanting. I was going to link you there because that's where I've explained it relative to Platinum and Pilot, as it's otherwise difficult to explain something in a vacuum.

There's only one way to know if you will like it.

Edited by Bluey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

After I posted this it occurred to me I should clarify "best", but I was on the train and this was about the extent of what I could type out on my little phone.

 

For someone like me coming over from using mostly western fountain pens like Montblanc, Pelikan, Sheaffer, Cross, Parker etc, what Japanese nib might I enjoy best? I don't think an ultra fine nib will be my cup of tea at this point. My ideal daily use nib would be a western Fine, that is very wet, responsive, and smooth but not buttery smooth. Something with a nice tactile feedback balanced with smoothness so it does not feel toothy or scratchy at all. I like to see as much shading as possible in an ink when there is shading to be had. I like a nib that is as soft as possible. A little stubby or architect line variation would be nice to give my line some character, but a soft nib that can give line variation would be just as good.

 

I already have a Pilot Falcon Elabo SF, Pilot 912 FA, and Pilot 74 with a SFM. I really enjoy the 74 SFM nib, and when I use it I wonder if there is something along it's line but more. A 74 SFM nib on steroids maybe if that is possible.

 

Try the Pilot Custom Urushi with a FM nib. It's definitely a 74 SFM nib on steroids.

 

I've tried all three brands - Pilot, Sailor and Platinum - over a decade and in the end I prefer Pilot. My Sailors and Nakayas live uninked inside the storage box. Here's my take on the three brands.

 

Sailor has interesting nibs but the filling system is a little boring unless you get one of their piston fillers. The quality of gold-plating is suspect, because their clips corrode after a few years and need to be replaced. However, Sailor has good after-sales services for clip replacement. And their Blue-Black ink is one of my favourites.

 

Platinum/Nakaya has good nibs but tend to dry out if not used frequently. The "slip and seal" mechanism seems promising but is only found in their smaller 3776 Century pens, not their flagships. I find their pens too small unless one goes for the Izumo. The gold trim also tends to corrode after a few years.

 

To me, Pilot is the epitome of the Japanese fountain pen. They make low-maintenance pens (with good sealing, a variety of sizes and filling mechanisms to satisfy everyone) and their nibs mostly write well out of the box. Gold-plating is excellent and durable. The gold trim on my Yukari Royale is still going strong after 8 years of hard use. After-sales service is good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

The Sailor KoP is typically available in medium and so that may suit you, as you say that you want something a little wider, has a little bit of feedback, and with some softness. The other Sailors won't suit you, not just because of their lack of softness but because their nibs are wonderful but an acquired taste.

I find that the nibs of medium and above are somewhat round, whereas the ones below that are very slightly stubby. You will likely get more shading on the ones below medium, but with the KoP the softness will give you the shading that you like because of the changes in pressure.

 

 

Certainly. When you first writing with them you think "WTH" because they don't feel like most other nibs, but then after a few pages and the more you write, the deeper and stronger the magic spell starts to weave.

 

I think it may have been a nibmeister named John S. who first brought my awareness(I was going to get around to Sailors eventually anyway because my intention was always to try out everything in the fountain pen multiverse) to Sailor nibs a few years ago at a pen show as he seemed to regard them very very highly as what the best nibs should be like. I bought my first Sailor shortly after.

 

I remember reading one account of a fellow maybe here or elsewhere who claimed that he bought 3 Sailors, one after the other, and each one he described as being "unusable" and, thus, promptly sent it off to Pendleton Brown to have it 'fixed'.

 

It's quite likely though that, being focused solely on Pelikans, he simply misunderstood Sailor nibs in the same way that a stone age man will misunderstand and misinterpret electricity. Anything that isn't overpolished, characterless, comes with the inevitable babys bottom, and has a large football dangling on the end of his nib is perhaps alien and foreign to the gentleman in question, as he may have perhaps come to interpret that as being the norm in fountain pen nibs.

 

It's rarely a good idea to limit oneself to only one brand without having tried and owned a plentiful supply of the full range of nibs out there, which enables one to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

Sadly, it appears for this person that he was too fixed and closed in his ways to ever acquire a taste for Sailors.

Thank you Bluey. It feels like the Sailor KOP may be an inevitable Japanese pen that will find it's way into my collection sooner or later. The big soft nib is compelling.

 

 

Try the Pilot Custom Urushi with a FM nib. It's definitely a 74 SFM nib on steroids.

 

I've tried all three brands - Pilot, Sailor and Platinum - over a decade and in the end I prefer Pilot. My Sailors and Nakayas live uninked inside the storage box. Here's my take on the three brands.

 

Sailor has interesting nibs but the filling system is a little boring unless you get one of their piston fillers. The quality of gold-plating is suspect, because their clips corrode after a few years and need to be replaced. However, Sailor has good after-sales services for clip replacement. And their Blue-Black ink is one of my favourites.

 

Platinum/Nakaya has good nibs but tend to dry out if not used frequently. The "slip and seal" mechanism seems promising but is only found in their smaller 3776 Century pens, not their flagships. I find their pens too small unless one goes for the Izumo. The gold trim also tends to corrode after a few years.

 

To me, Pilot is the epitome of the Japanese fountain pen. They make low-maintenance pens (with good sealing, a variety of sizes and filling mechanisms to satisfy everyone) and their nibs mostly write well out of the box. Gold-plating is excellent and durable. The gold trim on my Yukari Royale is still going strong after 8 years of hard use. After-sales service is good.

 

Hmm surprised with Jar's answer.

 

The Urushi uses a different feed than any other Pilot pen, simply because this no 30 nib is completely new to the Pilot lineup. I would imagine because so much investment has gone into this feed, that Pilot MIGHT branch out into other variations based on the Custom Urushi. The converter is the same Con 70 although the nib housing has to be completely designed too. There is a step down narrowing between the grip and the insertion point for the converter. That is new too.

 

As for the writing characteristics its completely different than any other Pilot pen. The nib has much longer tines, which makes it a lot softer. This also makes for a point that's a lot wetter and broader. It's probably the broadest M from the Pilot range I have. Nothing close to the broadness of the Pelikans, but much broader than the 845 and also the Sailor KOP.

 

Thanks Shuuemera

I wasn't aware of the Pilot Custom Urushi. I researched it a little on FPN and found this post from another thread about this pen.

Looks like another very, very nice pen from Pilot along the lines of a 149 and M1000 but with it's own unique character. It is pricey though.

 

So it looks like either a Sailor KOP or Pilot Custom Urushi are contenders here for some of the finest Japanese pen writing experiences to think about.

 

Hmm surprised with Jar's answer.

 

The Urushi uses a different feed than any other Pilot pen, simply because this no 30 nib is completely new to the Pilot lineup. I would imagine because so much investment has gone into this feed, that Pilot MIGHT branch out into other variations based on the Custom Urushi. The converter is the same Con 70 although the nib housing has to be completely designed too. There is a step down narrowing between the grip and the insertion point for the converter. That is new too.

 

As for the writing characteristics its completely different than any other Pilot pen. The nib has much longer tines, which makes it a lot softer. This also makes for a point that's a lot wetter and broader. It's probably the broadest M from the Pilot range I have. Nothing close to the broadness of the Pelikans, but much broader than the 845 and also the Sailor KOP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...