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Sailor, Platinum, Pilot Or A New Nib?

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#1 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 02:33

So it's just past my birthday, and every year I've been getting myself a little something in the FP world

 

I've been contemplating a Platinum 3776 UEF or SF  since last year, but lately I started thinking maybe I should try EF in the Pilot (my current fave EDC is a F nib Pilot Metro - primarily for the nib)

I tend to write 20+ pages a day and prefer to use inks that have waterproof qualities - mostly due to climate here, coupled with my tendency to spill things!  Which is disappointing as I love some of the Diamine inks for their sheen & the shimmer ones are so much fun! (that's another topic!) 

I've been using a 50/50 mix of R&K salix/scabiosa as my EDI in my Pilot and love it.  I'll probably get some Platinum Classic to try out next.

 

After reading lots of discussions I'm torn between all 3 of the Japanese makers

and today after trawling the forums some more I am thinking maybe what needs to happen is a new nib on my TWSBI ECO.  I love its capacity of the piston filler but the EF nib has been nowhere near the pleasant writing experience I get from my Pilot and more like a M nib, which is not fine enough for me.

 

I am currently considering the following:

 

Platinum 3776 chartres bleu  in UEF

Platinum 3776                        in SF

Platinum PTL-5000A              in EF

 

Sailor pro gear slim    in EF

Sailor 1911s  in EF

 

Pilot Celemo in EF

Pilot Vanishing Point decimo  in EF

 

NIBS -  ack  so this is a new experience, I am totally open to suggestions here.  I've read of success putting Sailor 1911s nibs on ECO, and also JOWO #5 and Franklin Christoph #5
But this would be a new venture of purposely buying a nib for a pen, and I wonder if I'll get something I love or be stuck with another pen languishing. (my poor Lamy does this despite having EVERY nib)

 

 

So folks, what do you think?  

 

 

 


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

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#2 Bluey

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 03:13

My fave are Sailor out of those 3. Although I'm biased, I'm biased from experience and for good reason - they are perhaps the most consistent out of the 3,  and far more so than non-Japanese brands; they have some of the best QC on the planet; and finally, they have the most unique feel of all the nib brands because of the grind.

Note that Sailors work best if you write with a more shallow writing angle because of the shape and grind/style of the tipping.

 

Hit the sweet spot and they are sublime, rotate the nib slightly and you will get feedback, but it's a pleasant feedback and you will come to love it after an initial feeling of WTH.

 

Both Platinum and Pilot are more blobby with their tipping than Sailor, with Platinum having the most feedback and Pilot having a little less. Sailor are smoother than both when you hit the sweetspot, but even on the sweetspot it has a very mild but pleasant grittiness feel which many find strangely addicting.

You will appreciate why it is said that many/most of the nibmeisters of the world consider Sailor to have thee best nibs bar none of all fountain pens.

 

Pilot definitely have a more course grittiness feeling that Sailor, which partially goes away with a light hand but magnified with a heavy hand. Pilot nibs are on the softer side than Platinum and Sailor. With a Platinum EF and UEF you will definitely need a light hand because the feedback can be very uncomfortable otherwise, and they can really dig into the page because of their stiffness.

 

My Sailor EF was by far the most pleasant of all 3, and so I think your choice should be a Sailor pro gear slim. I think the balance is better on that the 1911. Your 2nd choice for an EF is probably best being a Pilot(but not the VP because the EF on the VP is like an XXXXXF. I didn't like the feel of it) because the greater softness can act as a cushion for the feedback on such a fine nib, and lastly a Platinum EF/UEF or Pilot VP EF.

 

 

Another few options you could consider are the Pilot 912 FA or Pilot Custom 74 SF. The FA can actually produce a line that is as fine as a Platinum EF, but it's a lot more pleasant to use for long  writing periods because it's a soft nib.

 

PS I wouldn't bother with the new nib route because the nibs are really lousy on TWSBIs.


Edited by Bluey, 18 February 2018 - 03:35.

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#3 ENewton

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 17:52

I agree with the recommendation of a Pro Gear Slim, which would give you the fine line you want while also offering a very different and interesting writing experience from what you have now with your Pilot.  However, I'm not sure about using an iron gall ink in that nib; I almost always use Scabiosa in a Platinum Balance, but that has a much wetter nib than the Sailor. 

 

The Platinum 3776 is a great pen also, and the SF would also give you a writing experience very different from what you have with your Pilot F. 

 

Either of these nibs might cause you to write more slowly than you do with your Pilot F.  I would tend to use the Pilot more for expository writing or dialogue and the Sailor or the Platinum SF for more reflective writing. 



#4 dylim1

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 18:00

I like the Platinum 3776.



#5 Olya

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 19:01

I agree with what Bluey wrote.

 

Additionally, I'd like to add that I don't recommend taking out these nibs to stick them into another maker's pen, but rather stick with the originals. Unless you're havin a custom pen made and want these nibs & feeds (like some pen makers do).

 

The difference in ink capacity is there, but not too great if you can see past that. The Big 3's carts hold about on average ca. 1.1ml and the Eco holds according to Goulet max. 1.76ml. Refilling is super easy with a syringe but I can understand that refilling can be frustrating when done (almost) daily.

 

Also keep in mind that PIlot has discontinued the Celemo and not sure about the status of the PTL-5000A, likely to be discontinued as well. Sailor offers the Somiko/ [1911] Young Profit, which is in looks like the Celemo and the PTL, but doesn't have a gold nib and is not to be discontinued. Also keep in mind these 3 pens are fairly slim. For me they're perfectly fine, but not sure what your requirements are.

The PTL seems to have the same nib as the Balance, only in gold, and the Balance is in my experience pretty wet, so theirs might lay down a wetter/ fatter line than the others.

Platinum's SF on the other hand has the reputation of being incredibly dry, and the UEF requires a very light touch, like barely there from what I read. Platinum pens are generally dry writers. So you might experience issues with dry inks (bad flow; irongalls for example) or also too anaemic a line.

 

Personally I favour Sailor and Pilot of the big 3 and think that maybe Sailor would be the best choice (the Pilot VP is for some too heavy or awkward to hold b/c of the grip, so keep that in mind), their feeds are also said to be one of the best, which I also find.

 

If you don't mind me nosely asking, what do you do so you write ca. 20 pages per day? 20 A4 pages?



#6 minddance

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 21:04

Just get a Pilot 74 or 912. Or the finer Sailors (F or MF), M and B have very different and unconventional nib grind and shape, and not everyone would enjoy it, I don't.

Platinum are ink misers, even the broad nibs, no matter what I do, open tines or prime feed (it gravitates to its miserly nature after 1-2lines), it doesn't write wet. And there's that pencil-sandpaper sound, maybe some people find it therapeutic or addictive but I don't.

#7 minddance

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Posted 19 February 2018 - 21:07

If I write 20 pages per day, I'd write with a Pelikan m600. Forget abt anything else.

#8 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 23:16

My fave are Sailor out of those 3. Although I'm biased, I'm biased from experience and for good reason - they are perhaps the most consistent out of the 3,  and far more so than non-Japanese brands; they have some of the best QC on the planet; and finally, they have the most unique feel of all the nib brands because of the grind.

Note that Sailors work best if you write with a more shallow writing angle because of the shape and grind/style of the tipping.

 

Hit the sweet spot and they are sublime, rotate the nib slightly and you will get feedback, but it's a pleasant feedback and you will come to love it after an initial feeling of WTH.

 

Both Platinum and Pilot are more blobby with their tipping than Sailor, with Platinum having the most feedback and Pilot having a little less. Sailor are smoother than both when you hit the sweetspot, but even on the sweetspot it has a very mild but pleasant grittiness feel which many find strangely addicting.

You will appreciate why it is said that many/most of the nibmeisters of the world consider Sailor to have thee best nibs bar none of all fountain pens.

 

Pilot definitely have a more course grittiness feeling that Sailor, which partially goes away with a light hand but magnified with a heavy hand. Pilot nibs are on the softer side than Platinum and Sailor. With a Platinum EF and UEF you will definitely need a light hand because the feedback can be very uncomfortable otherwise, and they can really dig into the page because of their stiffness.

 

My Sailor EF was by far the most pleasant of all 3, and so I think your choice should be a Sailor pro gear slim. I think the balance is better on that the 1911. Your 2nd choice for an EF is probably best being a Pilot(but not the VP because the EF on the VP is like an XXXXXF. I didn't like the feel of it) because the greater softness can act as a cushion for the feedback on such a fine nib, and lastly a Platinum EF/UEF or Pilot VP EF.

 

 

Another few options you could consider are the Pilot 912 FA or Pilot Custom 74 SF. The FA can actually produce a line that is as fine as a Platinum EF, but it's a lot more pleasant to use for long  writing periods because it's a soft nib.

 

PS I wouldn't bother with the new nib route because the nibs are really lousy on TWSBIs.

 

Thanks so much for the input!  I had looked at the Pilot 74 and 912 a few years ago, but hadn't thought of them now.  On the TWSBI I would be getting a new nib, probably the JOWO gold, which this gentleman custom fits to TWSBI  - I am not even considering another nib from TWSBI themself!  It's the point of replacing the nib I have on a pen I refill once ever 1.5 days vs.  every day on the Pilot.

But as I'm writing quickly for 75% of my writing time  and I write with a light hand, I am focusing on writing experience over all else.  Sailor came up for the reasons you said, and it was actually someone who put their 1911 nib in a TWSBI that inspired me to start considering Sailor as an option - as I am realizing majority of the perfect writing experience really is the nib & ink magic combination that works for you.

 

You've made my list a bit longer, but hey, I'd rather take my time, after playing around in the $50 or less range, I am upping the game a little so I'd rather be sure the $100 I spend is something I am pleased with.  
My biggest criteria is the EF nib that still allows me the flow of writing speed.


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

profile pic credit: Tashi Mannox


#9 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 00:54

I like the Platinum 3776.

Which nibs have you used and which inks?  Curious cats want to know  :sm_cat:


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

profile pic credit: Tashi Mannox


#10 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 00:58

I agree with the recommendation of a Pro Gear Slim, which would give you the fine line you want while also offering a very different and interesting writing experience from what you have now with your Pilot.  However, I'm not sure about using an iron gall ink in that nib; I almost always use Scabiosa in a Platinum Balance, but that has a much wetter nib than the Sailor. 

 

The Platinum 3776 is a great pen also, and the SF would also give you a writing experience very different from what you have with your Pilot F. 

 

Either of these nibs might cause you to write more slowly than you do with your Pilot F.  I would tend to use the Pilot more for expository writing or dialogue and the Sailor or the Platinum SF for more reflective writing. 

Thanks this is really helpful

As I am taking notes, and researching and attending conferences & seminars, it is the former than the latter that I need.  
ON the ink in the Sailor, would you say that a nano-pigment might work?  I need a waterproof ink, which is why I use the Salix & Scabiosa - any pigmented waterproof inks I've tried in the Pilot has doubled the line width, which is not an option.


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

profile pic credit: Tashi Mannox


#11 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:20

I agree with what Bluey wrote.

 

Additionally, I'd like to add that I don't recommend taking out these nibs to stick them into another maker's pen, but rather stick with the originals. Unless you're havin a custom pen made and want these nibs & feeds (like some pen makers do).

 

The difference in ink capacity is there, but not too great if you can see past that. The Big 3's carts hold about on average ca. 1.1ml and the Eco holds according to Goulet max. 1.76ml. Refilling is super easy with a syringe but I can understand that refilling can be frustrating when done (almost) daily.

 

Also keep in mind that PIlot has discontinued the Celemo and not sure about the status of the PTL-5000A, likely to be discontinued as well. Sailor offers the Somiko/ [1911] Young Profit, which is in looks like the Celemo and the PTL, but doesn't have a gold nib and is not to be discontinued. Also keep in mind these 3 pens are fairly slim. For me they're perfectly fine, but not sure what your requirements are.

The PTL seems to have the same nib as the Balance, only in gold, and the Balance is in my experience pretty wet, so theirs might lay down a wetter/ fatter line than the others.

Platinum's SF on the other hand has the reputation of being incredibly dry, and the UEF requires a very light touch, like barely there from what I read. Platinum pens are generally dry writers. So you might experience issues with dry inks (bad flow; irongalls for example) or also too anaemic a line.

 

Personally I favour Sailor and Pilot of the big 3 and think that maybe Sailor would be the best choice (the Pilot VP is for some too heavy or awkward to hold b/c of the grip, so keep that in mind), their feeds are also said to be one of the best, which I also find.

 

If you don't mind me nosely asking, what do you do so you write ca. 20 pages per day? 20 A4 pages?

THANKS so much for your response. :D 

so I see the difference in ink capacity as huge from my own experience - I can go a full day without refilling the TWSBI, whereas I am refilling the Pilot every day.  I cannot walk around with an office in my pocket (I do have a 5ml vial in my bag)  but as I am NEVER at my desk, portability does matter.  It's part of the reason for considering swapping nibs, which I am already a fan of, and have done so successfully with cheaper pens.

 

Both the Celemo and the PTL5000A are on ebay, so that is why they are on my list :)  I did not consider the Sailor Profit because it is not a gold nib, although I just did a search on Amazon and one popped up with a 14k nib....HMMMMM  I prefer a slim pen if I can get it, but I'm not bad with a medium diameter pen (like TWSBI, Lamy)

 

The drier quality of the Platinum 3776 is actually what's attractive - I find the waterproof pigmented inks I've tried tend to be too wet & saturated, and I am thinking the dryer pen/nib might give me the line I want.  I have a lighter hand, so that isn't a problem.  

 

What I do; I am a doctoral researcher in South Asian Medicine & Religion -  I do a combination of research, philology (manuscript study) and ethnography (fieldwork) so I am either taking notes in the field, in the library or in seminars/lectures/conferences.  


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

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#12 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:22

Just get a Pilot 74 or 912. Or the finer Sailors (F or MF), M and B have very different and unconventional nib grind and shape, and not everyone would enjoy it, I don't.

Platinum are ink misers, even the broad nibs, no matter what I do, open tines or prime feed (it gravitates to its miserly nature after 1-2lines), it doesn't write wet. And there's that pencil-sandpaper sound, maybe some people find it therapeutic or addictive but I don't.

 

I'm thinking the dry nature will help me out with the pigmented waterproof inks  :)


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

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#13 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:23

If I write 20 pages per day, I'd write with a Pelikan m600. Forget abt anything else.

 

OOOK  buy me one and I promise I'll use it every day!   :lticaptd:

more than I got $$ for at the moment!


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

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#14 dylim1

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:01

I have used fine and medium nibs before. I prefer the fine since I like finer nibs. I have used many inks with it. e.g. Platinum carbon black, Pilot Iroshizuku Yamabudo, Sailor Yamadori...

 

Which nibs have you used and which inks?  Curious cats want to know  :sm_cat:



#15 SoulSamurai

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:53

If ink capacity is really important consider a Pelikan Level. They hold 4ml of ink without the burping issues that eyedroppers can suffer from. They have pretty good nibs that are designed to be resistant to drying out even when uncapped. What's more they are probably the easiest, fastest and cleanest pens to refill outside of cartridges.

The L65 and it's ink bottle can be had for 30 USD on ebay (check ebay.de if neccessary).

Edited by SoulSamurai, 23 February 2018 - 07:55.


#16 Yarn-Yogini

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 20:21

If ink capacity is really important consider a Pelikan Level. They hold 4ml of ink without the burping issues that eyedroppers can suffer from. They have pretty good nibs that are designed to be resistant to drying out even when uncapped. What's more they are probably the easiest, fastest and cleanest pens to refill outside of cartridges.

The L65 and it's ink bottle can be had for 30 USD on ebay (check ebay.de if neccessary).

 

OOh thanks, a pen I've never heard of before!  Well the question would be how is the nib?  ink capacity is secondary as long as its relatively easy to stop and fill on the go.  More important for me is ink & nib relationship.  Waterproof ink is must, and I just don't get the fine lines I like with anything other than the iron gall in the Pilot Metro F, which totally limits the colour options.  I'd love to be able to write finely with say Noodler's Matahari Cordial or Dostoyevsky.  :)  

And of course this is what prompted a new round of research before I go for next level up investment.


To think one can write Truth is but an illusion of words. Now BEAUTY!  That's a poem of words & forms!

profile pic credit: Tashi Mannox


#17 Jezza

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 02:05

I have samples of the pens you referenced from each manufacturer, and I prefer the Pilot or Platinum. The Sailor is nice, but I have to disagree with regards to the sweet spot issue: my experience with the two 1911 Large I have and previous Sailors is if you miss the sweet spot, its quite unpleasant and downright scratchy. Platinum has just as fine a point as Sailor, but without finicky nature of Sailors sweet spot. Pilot is my favorite of the three, but Im not sure how its feed behaves with pigmented ink. Platinum works just fine with the stuff, and the cap on the Century 3776 seals much better.

Edited by Jezza, 25 February 2018 - 02:06.


#18 SoulSamurai

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:41

 

OOh thanks, a pen I've never heard of before!  Well the question would be how is the nib?  ink capacity is secondary as long as its relatively easy to stop and fill on the go.  More important for me is ink & nib relationship.  Waterproof ink is must, and I just don't get the fine lines I like with anything other than the iron gall in the Pilot Metro F, which totally limits the colour options.  I'd love to be able to write finely with say Noodler's Matahari Cordial or Dostoyevsky.  :)  

And of course this is what prompted a new round of research before I go for next level up investment.

 

 

My L65 in M is easily one of my smoothest nibs, HOWEVER:

1) I'm not a very good judge of nibs in general; I'm still relatively new to fountain pens, and most of my pens are sub-$50 with steel nibs.

2) I've only used it with the ink it came with (Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue I believe) which I think tends to run smoother than my other inks.

3) Most of my nibs are F, so the L65 has a bit of an advantage there.

 

Also be aware that the Levels are considered harder to clean than many pens; if you look online you'll find ways to clean it, but they generally involve a syringe and/or removing the valve system.

 

BTW L5s are available with gold nibs (no idea if they are better, but...), however the prices are pretty high from what I've seen.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: sailor, platinum, pilot, namiki, twsbi, nextlevelpen, efnibs, #5nibs, franklinchristoph, jowo



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