Other Sailor Inks

[Charles Skinner]

Am I right to think that Boungbox and Kobe are other "Sailor made" inks? Can you tell me if this is true, and why do they have other names? I believe I remember that they are more expensive than regular Sailor inks. Why would this be? I have three bottles of Sailor inks and like them very much. Thanks. C. S.

[titevm]

They are made by sailor for certain Japanese stores!

[Inkling13]

Exclusive to those stores as well.

[eharriett]

That would be correct. And those are the ones that just show up here. I wish some others would too. I covet a bottle I have of Vintage Denim that is made for Pen & Message by Sailor. Took a great favor from a great friend to get a bottle of it to me and I am very miserly with using it, but I freaking love it! Sailor does lots of those exclusives. Hopefully, one day they will open these exclusives up to more wide release.,

[D3N2]

Am I right to think that Boungbox and Kobe are other "Sailor made" inks? Can you tell me if this is true, and why do they have other names? I believe I remember that they are more expensive than regular Sailor inks. Why would this be? I have three bottles of Sailor inks and like them very much. Thanks. C. S.

 

 

Sailor is one of my favorite ink and pen brands. They have an amazing variety, and their shop exclusive inks are beautiful. The other names would be the store names. Bungbox is a pen store in Tokyo, Pen and Message I believe is in Kobe, the 'Kobe' line of inks is actually by the pen store Nagasawa-Kobe, etc.

 

Here you go:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/272272-sailors-full-ink-lines-including-shop-exclusives-compiled-in-a-post/

 

It took me a couple days to go through that, and that was last year. Haven't really kept track, and I'm scared to start again.

[Chrissy]

Am I right to think that Boungbox and Kobe are other "Sailor made" inks? Can you tell me if this is true, and why do they have other names? I believe I remember that they are more expensive than regular Sailor inks. Why would this be? I have three bottles of Sailor inks and like them very much. Thanks. C. S.

 

Yes. Sailor make inks for lot's of stores, like many ink manufacturer's do. Large ink factories like Pelikan, Monteverde and Diamine all make ink that is branded as other ink brands.

 

Kobe and Bungbox are just two of Sailor's alternative ink brands. There are others: Kingdom Note, SankoDo, Pen & Message and some I can't even think of. There is a whole FPN thread Here just about all of Sailor's ink brands.

[Mew]

That would be correct. And those are the ones that just show up here. I wish some others would too. I covet a bottle I have of Vintage Denim that is made for Pen & Message by Sailor. Took a great favor from a great friend to get a bottle of it to me and I am very miserly with using it, but I freaking love it! Sailor does lots of those exclusives. Hopefully, one day they will open these exclusives up to more wide release.,

It'a not sailor's decision to not offer these inks outside Japan, but of the stores who commission and sell them. They are very small stores, and some don't even ship inside Japan and you have to buy the inks in person.

[Chrissy]

No-one will ever persuade me that some Sailor inks that are offered under other store names are unique inks that aren't the same as any of their "regular colours." Especially when chroma tests of differently named inks prove to be exactly the same.

[eharriett]

No-one will ever persuade me that some Sailor inks that are offered under other store names are unique inks that aren't the same as any of their "regular colours." Especially when chroma tests of differently named inks prove to be exactly the same.

Well gee thanks, now I am going to obsess all day wondering which Sailor Ink is identical but really just a rebranded Vintage Denim.

[white_lotus]

The number of inks in Sailor's regular ink lineup, the Sailor Jentle line, is three: Jentle Black, Jentle Blue-Black, and Jentle Blue. The Four Seasons inks are also part of the Jentle lineup but they are not permanent additions to that line; they have their own labels, box designs, etc. And Sailor has in the past swapped out a whole series of inks for a new group of colors.

 

Given the number of store-exclusive inks there are bound to be similarities: Four Seasons Rikyu-cha and Pen & Message Cigar are very very similar; Bungubox 88 Green Tea and Shoushikhan "Deep in the Mountains" are also very similar, but not identical, and they do not match any ink in the Four Seasons line. I'm sure there are many other examples as there may well be over 500 individual store exclusive inks.

 

Each shop except perhaps for the "big sellers" Kobe, Bungbox, Kingdom Note, most likely get an allocation of 50 bottles of an individual ink. That's 2.5 liters of ink made at a time. This is not an "ink factory" as some wish to imagine it. Long gone are the days when gallons and gallons of ink were produced and a manufacturer had all of three to five colors total.

 

There may well be similarities in the color of some of the store exclusive inks, but for the most part they are all quite different, if not in hue, in handling. And they are not similar to Sailor's "regular lineup" of inks, because Sailor really only has three colors in that line.

[Mew]

Well gee thanks, now I am going to obsess all day wondering which Sailor Ink is identical but really just a rebranded Vintage Denim.

Some stuff went down, you are late to the party.

Vintage Denim is a gorgeous ink, and one my favourite blue inks.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Mew

[eharriett]

Some stuff went down, you are late to the party.

Vintage Denim is a gorgeous ink, and one my favourite blue inks.

 

It is my favorite too. I wish there was more of a supply.

[Chrissy]

 

It is my favorite too. I wish there was more of a supply.

 

You could check out the main Sailor ink thread to see if anything is similar, but even if it is, it could be another shop exclusive that's just as hard to get.

[lapis]

No-one will ever persuade me that some Sailor inks that are offered under other store names are unique inks that aren't the same as any of their "regular colours." Especially when chroma tests of differently named inks prove to be exactly the same.

I'm not tring to persuade you, but our chromatographic demonstrations don't "prove" anything. They can at most persuade us that two inks are only possibly and/or almost "the same". That is because what we see there is based solely on the dyes involved. Other factors -- which may very well play a big role in characterizing an ink's properties -- like solvents, surfactants (tensides, detergents, all ionic and/or non-ionic) and antimicrobial agents like phenol, sodium azide etc. etc. can be present but we can't see these in any chromatography. {a} That's a limitation of the test and a reason whiy it's called "chromatography". {b} Certain inks can be "almost" the same, like some Akkerman-Diamine counterparts but their differences in wetness, lubricity and so on can't be seen let alone proven there.

 

Whew

[migo984]

I'm not tring to persuade you, but our chromatographic demonstrations don't "prove" anything. They can at most persuade us that two inks are only possibly and/or almost "the same". That is because what we see there is based solely on the dyes involved. Other factors -- which may very well play a big role in characterizing an ink's properties -- like solvents, surfactants (tensides, detergents, all ionic and/or non-ionic) and antimicrobial agents like phenol, sodium azide etc. etc. can be present but we can't see these in any chromatography. {a} That's a limitation of the test and a reason whiy it's called "chromatography". {b} Certain inks can be "almost" the same, like some Akkerman-Diamine counterparts but their differences in wetness, lubricity and so on can't be seen let alone proven there.

 

Whew

I previously read an excellent post that set out why home chromatography tests are so limited in what they tell us - which is actually quite little. I thought I’d bookmarked it but I can’t find it now. I’ll keep looking, but in the meanwhile, thank you posting this.

[minddance]

Do all Sailor inks provide that Phenol 'high' while writing and filling?

[Mew]

While filling, yes. But not while writing. At least I haven't noticed that phenol smell while writing with the ink.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Mew

[Chrissy]

I'm not tring to persuade you, but our chromatographic demonstrations don't "prove" anything. They can at most persuade us that two inks are only possibly and/or almost "the same". That is because what we see there is based solely on the dyes involved. Other factors -- which may very well play a big role in characterizing an ink's properties -- like solvents, surfactants (tensides, detergents, all ionic and/or non-ionic) and antimicrobial agents like phenol, sodium azide etc. etc. can be present but we can't see these in any chromatography. {a} That's a limitation of the test and a reason whiy it's called "chromatography". {b} Certain inks can be "almost" the same, like some Akkerman-Diamine counterparts but their differences in wetness, lubricity and so on can't be seen let alone proven there.

 

Whew

 

I understand that we can't see everything that's in ink from chroma tests. As you say, what we see in a chroma test is based mainly on the dyes in the ink. So some inks that have different "names" contain the same dyes in approximately the same amounts. That means they come out as the same colour. Whether they behave slightly differently can't be seen from a chroma test

 

I'm very specific in my chroma testing. The strips are the same, the water is the same, it's at the same level in the same type of containers that are lined up, and comparison tests stay in for the same time. I make them as accurate as possible.

 

The reluctance for some users to believe that Sailor never markets any particular ink under different store-brand names is illogical, since they are already aware that several ink manufacturers make inks for different companies and they are the same inks.

 

As an example: It seems quite possible that Sailor once issued an ink called Rikyu cha, then discontinued it, and subsequently re-formulated it as Pen & Message Cigar. Then they found out how it's popularity rose dramatically, and many people were prepared to buy it at higher prices. So they brought it back as Rikyu cha. Why wouldn't they? They are in business to make money after all. It would be sheer stupidity to not do that. Is it really likely that Sailor would permit a contract term saying their store-branded inks won't ever be issued under any other ink name?

 

What also amazes me is that some of these same users can be regularly seen "bashing" other specific brands, and are currently doing that on another thread. Yet they get all defensive and outraged, even abusive, just because someone dares to suggest that some Sailor inks that are offered under different names or store names aren't "unique" inks. That's hypocrisy.

[migo984]

Ha ha. - thats like reading an article in the Daily Mail 😂😂

[Mew]

"As accurate as possible" - does not mean that it is 100% accurate. But whatever. Like Lapis said, dyes used aren't the only thing that influence the colour of the ink. It would be unwise to ignore other things out into an ink.

 

"Bashing other specific brands" - I have tried as many ink brands as possible, before standardising on sailor. KWZ, GvFC, Herbin, Pelikan, Diamine, Callifolio, Montblanc, noodlers, private reserve, papier plume, pilot, platinum etc. Only brands that I am yet to try (from memory only) are the Egoistar (south korea), Organic studio and yard-o-led. It's based on what I experienced and not off-hand comments. The consistency and performance of sailor inks is unmatched.

Of course, I would admit that if you are using a Pelikan B or nibs that broad, it probably wouldn't make any difference irrespective of what you use. It would flow. But I won't change my nib preferences just to use another brand when there is a brand around which is perfect from the Japanese F nibs that I use.

Montblanc ink wouldn't make me want to pick up the pen every day and write it dry. I used Corn poppy red in my Nakaya and it refused to flow. Red chalk refused to flow in another pen. Of course, both would flow and lubricate the nib nicely if I were using a B nib, but sailor flows well right from EEF to 3B.

I don't remember who, but someone said that ink is not only about the colour, but also about What you feel when you put the nib to the paper. With others, it's average or above average, but with sailor I feel like writing pages after pages, every day. It is such a pleasant experience.

This is why I recommend sailor, it will flow in all your nibs. Other that I have tried haven't flowed too well or at all in my finer nib pens.

 

Rikyu-cha vs Cigar - it's like this: original rikyu-cha was introduced back in 2009 and then discontinued shortly afterwards. In 2012, the owner of the pen & message shop commissioned sailor to make an ink to his liking, called cigar. Sailor has/had zero input in that colour and will not make it for anyone else. It you can or have any inclination to, Mail sailor and ask them.

Whether you accept it or not is none of my business, one of them is greener than the other , at least it appears so in pictures. Difference is tiny, but it is there.

 

Edited to remove text considered impolite.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Mew