Demand For Flex Nibs: Do People Want Them?

[ReadyFireAim]

There is a new and still small company that is producing ebonite feeds. FA nibs.

 

I am very impressed!

 

Thanks for the link.

[max dog]

I just happened to read the last page or so of this topic, so forgive me if this was mentioned before. With the comments about "if only the feed could keep up", I suspect not. There is a new and still small company that is producing ebonite feeds. The most interesting part - for this discussion - is their efforts to produce a feed replacement for FA nibs.

 

I don't have a FA nib, but I have been considering buying one of their standard #6 feeds to put in one of my regular pens, just to see if the ebonite feed would make a big difference or not.

 

If you follow their social media accounts you'll also see they are starting to figure out how to make their own nibs. Hopefully they'll be able to figure it out and live up to the company name, 'flex nib factory'.

Thanks for the link. That is great to hear there is a better feed for the FA. Unfortunately mine is the #10 size FA from the 912, but the site says they are working a feed for the smaller FA as well.

[strelnikoff]

I just happened to read the last page or so of this topic, so forgive me if this was mentioned before. With the comments about "if only the feed could keep up", I suspect not. There is a new and still small company that is producing ebonite feeds. The most interesting part - for this discussion - is their efforts to produce a feed replacement for FA nibs.

 

I don't have a FA nib, but I have been considering buying one of their standard #6 feeds to put in one of my regular pens, just to see if the ebonite feed would make a big difference or not.

 

If you follow their social media accounts you'll also see they are starting to figure out how to make their own nibs. Hopefully they'll be able to figure it out and live up to the company name, 'flex nib factory'.

 

I had no clue there two FA nibs ... 10 and 15 size. I have 10, in Custom 912.

I thought there are only two nibs, one FA 10 (Custom 912) and one... whatever the model is, that's called Falcon, and looks like a messed up duck bill

 

Thank you for this info! I'll look for nr. 15. and may get few of these feeds too.

[Fatalpotato]

I had no clue there two FA nibs ... 10 and 15 size. I have 10, in Custom 912.

I thought there are only two nibs, one FA 10 (Custom 912) and one... whatever the model is, that's called Falcon, and looks like a messed up duck bill

 

Thank you for this info! I'll look for nr. 15. and may get few of these feeds too.

Nr 15 is normally found in the 743 model but some retailers can get that nib with other suitable models as well. This feed manufacturer sounds really awesome, as most of the railroading I see in modern pens tend to be due to feed, and this seems a very elaborate solution to that

[JulieParadise]

This http://kmpn.blogspot.de/2011/06/pilot-custom.html is the most useful site to figure out which Pilot Custom comes with what nib options and what size these and the pens are.

[strelnikoff]

Nr 15 is normally found in the 743 model but some retailers can get that nib with other suitable models as well. This feed manufacturer sounds really awesome, as most of the railroading I see in modern pens tend to be due to feed, and this seems a very elaborate solution to that

 

 

I agree on this. Any nib - I've seen so far - that's kind of flexible or really flexible (modern) usually have issues due to the feed. I had to re-work my Aurora 88 feeds to expand the channel.

[strelnikoff]

This http://kmpn.blogspot.de/2011/06/pilot-custom.html is the most useful site to figure out which Pilot Custom comes with what nib options and what size these and the pens are.

 

Great ! Thank you for this link!

[sansenri]

Steinikoff, Sansenri, this is fascinating stuff. Thank you for sharing this important information. Sansenri, where does the Italian article come from? A business journal or Italian pen publication, maybe? Is there a URL?

 

https://www.firenze1903.it/un-pennino-dantan-stiflex-la-stilografica-alessandro-manzoni/

 

there are various mentions of a Stiflex nib which is being developed by Stipula, on this florentine web site, already since mid 2017.

What slightly concerns is the fact that there seems to be no mention elsewhere of this.

A new LE Stipula pen named after Alessandro Manzoni is supposedly out with such nib.

 

 

[sansenri]

PS the web site seems to belong to Vallecchi, an italian pulishing house which in the past has also marketed some special edition pens, for example together with Visconti

[sansenri]

the description of the Alessandro Manzoni pen (LE to 150 units) mentions

 

La stilografica Alessandro Manzoni veste un pennino in oro 14 Kt Stiflex in punta Media, pennino costruito con una speciale laminazione e dotato di elevatissime flessibilità, realizzato con attrezzature originali degli anni ’40.

 

The fountain pen Alessandro Manzoni mounts a 14 Kt gold Stiflex nib in Medium point, nib built with a special lamination and equipped with very high flexibility, made with original equipment of the 40s.

 

https://www.firenze1903.it/stilograficaalessandromanzoni/

[sansenri]

just for reference (excuse the slight OT) this is the Vallecchi Visconti 1903 pen

 

 

[sansenri]

this last link is about the nib

https://www.firenze1903.it/pennino-litaliano-globus/

[Tom Kellie]

[mitto]

I have my stock of vintage flexy nibs. And I love them and the pens these came with. MT Swan, Eversharp Skyline, Waterman 52s, vintage Pelikans and Osmia pens. Hence, have no interest in so-called modern flex nibs.

Edited May 21, 2018 by mitto

[steve50]

A quick, dumb question: I've used flex dip nibs which are very flexible, spingy, and cheap. So how come we can't use the same material for fountain pens?

 

I really can't think that manufacturers can't figure out the metallurgy and that's why they can't make flex nibs. I'm pretty sure it's almost completely due to the lack of profitability.

 

On the Pilot FA nibs, these aren't made for the Spencerian-type writing but for Japanese/Chinese characters, where you normally use short strokes. Even then, you don't flex it so much like they do in those demo videos on Youtube. So again (I think) not a problem of lack of knowledge but simply they didn't make it for that purpose.

 

A member posted an old advert for Waterman Pink nibs somewhere here, and it shows even they weren't meant for flexing to the point of bending and destroying them like in the aforementioned videos.

[PenBuyer1796]

I have my stock of vintage flexy nibs. And I love them and the pens these came with. MT Swan, Eversharp Skyline, Waterman 52s, vintage Pelikans and Osmia pens. Hence, have no interest in so-called modern flex nibs.

 

I agree with you. Those pens that you mentioned were made by hand and in my humble opinion, were of better quality compared to what you get now a days. Nibs on modern pens seem thinner, and the feeds being plastic, make the pen look boring.

[PenBuyer1796]

 

A member posted an old advert for Waterman Pink nibs somewhere here, and it shows even they weren't meant for flexing to the point of bending and destroying them like in the aforementioned videos.

 

The reason they're being destroyed is because the people who buy them more then likely have never handled a vintage flex pen before. We all destroy pens when we start off in the hobby, but that's not the pen you want to destroy.

[strelnikoff]

A quick, dumb question: I've used flex dip nibs which are very flexible, spingy, and cheap. So how come we can't use the same material for fountain pens?

 

I really can't think that manufacturers can't figure out the metallurgy and that's why they can't make flex nibs. I'm pretty sure it's almost completely due to the lack of profitability.

 

On the Pilot FA nibs, these aren't made for the Spencerian-type writing but for Japanese/Chinese characters, where you normally use short strokes. Even then, you don't flex it so much like they do in those demo videos on Youtube. So again (I think) not a problem of lack of knowledge but simply they didn't make it for that purpose.

 

A member posted an old advert for Waterman Pink nibs somewhere here, and it shows even they weren't meant for flexing to the point of bending and destroying them like in the aforementioned videos.

 

I can't comment much about this question (no such things as "dumb questions") but I can say that some dip nibs have been used and fitted to some fountain pens (zebra g, osprey pens). They usually don't have iridium tipping and (usually) their design requires to be submerged - and not ink-fed. Also, and this is just a guess, they are not meant to be used for years (though, I know some people have some nibs few decades old) - so the material is typically on the cheap side and meant to be replaced. And if you're going to keep changing them - then just use dip pen... but I'll stick - not designed for fountain pens.

 

I've heard the argument that FA nibs are made for Asian (Japan, China... ) writing. Perhaps that is accurate information. However, that argument - so far - I've heard from sellers and some "experienced" users who came to that conclusion - but I haven't seen any official statement by Pilot. Nevertheless, the nib itself is good for western flexible writing, but not the feed. With a good feed, made to supply enough ink, the FA nib can be used for Spencerian and Copperplate. One would have to grind down the tip though. The FA nib has some snap-back, not the best in the world, but good enough. So, the nib/feed in Pilot pens is not that suitable for western type of flexible writing, but the nib itself - is. With a light touch

 

As for the Pink nib - "flexing" is a tricky topic. Typically, a new user would see some youtube video, or some examples online - of a nib that lays down a 2 mm line - from 0.1 mm. While that is "flexible writing" to an uninformed user, it is not to most of the people who know how to use flexible nibs. It is not the width of the line per se, that we're after, but rather the responsiveness of the nib when it goes from narrow line (no pressure) to wider line (some pressure) and back. I.e. snap-back. And the ease of doing so. Waterman Pink nib and few other nibs around, has excellent performance in this sense although it will not lay down 3 mm wide line. That is a common misconception, and a new user will quickly learn the difference. Wet Noodles are fun, but useless ( I have few). The good thing is - average price of a Pink nib is >1,000 USD - which usually discourages newcomers from buying the Pink nibs. They will destroy (as many have done it before) few #2's in the process of learning.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Strelnikoff

[BorisoftheStars]

As some of you may have already noted from my previous posts, I got a Karas Kustoms Ink fountain pen recently with a Bock Titan (titanium) nib with a fine point. I've been very happy with it, and I've been trying to point it out as an option whenever the topic of flex nibs comes up. However… I feel like something strange is going on, that I don't really understand. So let me elucidate my thoughts, and see if others feel the same!

 

I've been on FPN for several years now, and it seems like during much of that time there was a lot of pent-up demand for modern flex nibs. At some times it seemed almost like a mania. At the same time there were explanations for why no contemporary pen company would ever issue flex nibs again. There was "no demand" beyond a small handful of enthusiasts (i.e. seemingly everyone on FPN!), and ham-fisted ballpoint-trained writers would ruin them and cause a warranty nightmare that no company would ever risk.

 

Now, after all these years of wanting and wanting, and the object of our desires being out of reach, here's the Bock Titan! It's a modern, off-the-shelf, new-with-warranty nib that writes like a vintage flex pen. OK, it doesn't write like the very finest or the very most flexible of vintage flex pens, but it's in the right ballpark, it's very decent. And it's been greeted with a big yawn here on FPN. What happened? I thought we'd all be celebrating now. This is what we asked for, year after year.

 

I've been looking through the topics, and it just doesn't seem like there's the interest in flex nibs that there used to be. I wonder if Bock just missed the boat? They gave us what we wanted after most of us stopped wanting it. But why? What happened to cause this change in attitudes?

 

So here's where I get into speculation.

 

Culprit #1: Noodler's. There was enormous excitement for the Noodler's flex pens when they first appeared. I think a lot of those FPNers who were interested in trying flex bought them, quickly discovered that they are (bleep), and then decided that flex nibs are (bleep) that they don't want. Been there, done that, didn't like it. Yes, I've heard all the excuses for Noodler's pens. They're not intended to work right out-of-the-box; they're for tinkerers! They flex if you mash down on them hard enough! What do you expect for $16 anyhow? True, true, and true, and yet somehow it all sounds to me like excuses for a pen that is basically (bleep).

 

Culprit #2: YouTube. We've got people on YouTube "demonstrating" flex pens by using them like calligraphy nibs, making the tines do splits that will pretty soon ruin the nib. I've never seen anyone on YouTube *ever* review a flex-nib fountain pen properly and show the right way to use them. So, a lot of people have gotten entirely the wrong idea about what they're supposed to do and how they're supposed to work. A lot of them come away with the false idea that using a flex pen is some special skill that they would have to put in a lot of time and work to develop.

 

Culprit #3: FPN Experts. That's you and me. (But specifically, YOU. Yeah, you over there, you know who I'm talking to.) When the topic of flex comes up, there are certain people who chime in with pages and pages of complex and often contradictory opinions, and its very intimidating, and I think it scares away anybody who just has a casual interest in trying a flex nib. Also, we've repeated the myth so often of "There are no good modern flex nibs," that this has become dogma, and it's hard to recognize that maybe the situation has, in fact, changed.

 

So… Am I right? Am I off base?

When the Conklin duralex was stocked on goulet pens, I wanted it despite all the negative reviews. I didn't get the chance to purchase one, and I'm reluctant to try any other pen stores because I'm worried I'll end up buying from the black market or a counterfeiter.

[woleizihan]

Oh...... How did you get that Goulet fanboyness...... It's quite a misunderstanding that buying from any other pen store is buying from the black market and I highly suspect anyone will produce a modern Conklin counterfeit. I think Vanness had like 8 in stock for about 3 weeks and many other places had them for a while.