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Esterbrook Dip Pens For Everyday Writing


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#21 _InkyFingers

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 07:35

It is nice to see actual writing with 761 pen.  Thanks Aaandrew.

 

Do you think you can dig out a few samples of writing by normal people with each pen they use?

Not by the penman, God knows they are freaks of nature.  I mean people as in clerks or banks, or promissory note, love letters, journals?

 

That would be most interesting!



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#22 AAAndrew

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 12:44

We can find examples of writing, but we have no idea what pen they use. Most people did not really flex the pen much in normal writing. Flexed writing is slower and most people needed to write quickly for their job.

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#23 _InkyFingers

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 14:36

That makes sense...So normal writing as in Business Penmanship is the norm. But each person writing likes to differentiate from each other and in each field of industries, right?

If so, then, if ones pen collection is very broad, for normal writing, cursive, one can use any of the natural slant, school/college, falcon, judge quill, 314,313, etc.. to give it a "spin" in one's writing.

Do you have one of Esterbrook's brochure that illustrate different pen? Or better yet..Your collection of pens and it's sample. EP is not as instructive in this manner.

Edited by _InkyFingers, 18 November 2018 - 14:39.


#24 Cane

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 16:07

Now, medium and firm mean something different in dip pens than in fountain pens.

Could you tell me the difference?



#25 Cane

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 16:09

@_InkyFingers there is one here:

 

http://www.fountainp...p-pens-booklet/



#26 AAAndrew

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 17:16

Could you tell me the difference?


What you would call firm, medium in a dip pen, like the example I shared, would be considered extra fine and flexible for a modern fountain pen.

Plus, especially these days when “flexible” is the rage, people generally only talk about “flex” by which they mean how far apart the tines will spread. In the days of dip pens, there was a much wider range of writing experiences you could get from different pens. They tended to talk about a more complex set of characteristics they combined to call “action.”

I briefly introduce the concept here. https://thesteelpen....n-in-a-dip-pen/

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928



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#27 AAAndrew

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 17:20

@_InkyFingers there is one here:
 
http://www.fountainp...p-pens-booklet/


Yup. That’s the one.

“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928



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#28 Cane

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 17:40

I can recommend all of them, for specific uses. What do you want to do with it? You mentioned small writing. The 358 is the master at that, but it is super fine and extra difficult to use for those not used to dip pens.

This will take some time to explain... I have always been fascinated by drawing, but I have never been good at it. As I got older I did figure oit why. I have a condition called "Aphantasia". Meaning that I lack the ability to use my mind's eye, at will (I do see things when I dream, and that is the same part of the brain).

 

This doesn't mean that I can't draw at all. I have done many technical drawings, having worked in paper, wood, metal and electronics industries. It takes some time and patience, and I need a ruler to make it look good. Buy this is wheb I have measurements to use in conjunction with a ruler... Drawing by free-hand, could be good enough to show a thought to a co-worker, but it won't be pretty.

 

I did stop using all types of pens (rollerball, fineliner, marker etc), except the Pentel P203, 0.3mm mechanical pencil, when I got sick and started reacting to all types of things.

 

I do however miss having more permanent notes, and the legibility of black ink and it's permanence. I decided that I would like to find one type of ink that my body could tollerate. Fountain pens seemed like a good choice, because it is fairly easy to switch ink.

 

I wanted a fine nib, not to wet, and not to scratchy. The Platinum 3776 Century, with UEF seemed like a good fit. And it also have a good cap, that helps if you use something like their Carbon ink.

I did see a sample of the Esterbrook 358, and had a change of heart. After all, I can't know for sure that I will find an ink that workd for me and a dip pen, is cheaper for my experiment.

 

Besides what I have already mentioned, I want to find pen and ink for writing. We are not talking anything fancy. I will try to make my handwriting a little more neat, because even I have troubles trying to read then sometimes... It would be nice, if the nib was flexible enough to be able to make the text a little more varied, if I take my time with it (we are not talking extremes, like Spencerian).

 

But most of all, I would like to have a single writing and drawing instrument. Because I do know that it is not likely that I will spend the time to get good at writing calligraphy. I will however spend some time, every once in a while, to work on drawing (I need to work on perspective and my shading/cross-hatching).

 

If I like dip pens, then I have no doubt that I will continue to use them at home. But the goal is to find a solution (writing and drawing in ink) that is possible to use together with a notebook, no matter when or where I am.



#29 Cane

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 17:54

@AAAndrew, thanks for the clarification.



#30 AAAndrew

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 03:12

That helps me to understand what you're looking for. 

 

For both writing and drawing, the 556 is a good choice. It's a great over-all pen. Not too fine, not too coarse, a little flex, but not so much it makes it hard to "drive." 

 

It's also pretty readily available. The 761 you mentioned is also quite good. 

 

The Eagle E840 Modern Writing is also a great pen for your needs. As is the Esterbrook 531 Flyer, and the Esterbrook 782 Natural Slant. The last one is also available from Pendemonium for a buck a piece.  (no connection, just a happy customer from them)

 

As for ink, the walnut ink crystals are quite good. (not actually made of walnut shells, and may not actually have any "walnut" in it). There's not alcohol in it. You mix the crystals with distilled water and shake. But I guess you'll have to figure out for yourself if there's anything else in there that you're sensitive to. 

 

I also like the Pelikan 4001 ink for dip pens. It's pretty mild yet also works with dip pens. 

 

Good luck. If you come across other pens I haven't mentioned, and there are hundreds of others which could work as well, let me know and I'll be glad to tell you what I know about them. 



“When the historians of education do equal and exact justice to all who have contributed toward educational progress, they will devote several pages to those revolutionists who invented steel pens and blackboards.” V.T. Thayer, 1928



Check out my Steel Pen Blog


"No one is exempt from talking nonsense; the mistake is to do it solemnly."

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#31 Cane

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 15:47

Thanks again AAAndrew. I will report back when I have started experimenting. I was going to use Midori MD Cotton notebooks, but unfortunately the one I ordered smelled like tea... I will try to air it out, but I might have to order a new one. :(

 

But since I am going for dip pens (won't try to use them on the go), I might as well use Rhodia pads instead, I have a stack of them somewhere.



#32 corgicoupe

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 16:33

I just spoke with my contact at Highland Woodworking who is their finishes expert [been there for 20 years], and he said that there is confusion in the paint and dye world, but the Liberon Van Dyck crystals they sell are made from walnut husks. The Liberon web site says the same:

  Van Dyck Crystals
  Traditional method for colouring oak,mahogany and walnut
  Natural Dye made from walnut husks
  Intensity of colour is controlled by strength of dilution
    Product use
Liberon Van Dyck Crystals area traditional and natural water based wood dye made from walnut husks.They produce a colour ranging from a very light brown to dark brown depending upon the concentration.
 
From the Safety Data Sheet:
2.1. Classification of the substance or mixture
In compliance with EC regulation No. 1272/2008 and its amendments.
This mixture does not present a physical hazard. Refer to the recommendations regarding the other products present on the site.
This mixture does not present a health hazard with the exception of possible occupational exposure thresholds (see paragraphs 3 and 8).
This mixture does not present an environmental hazard. No known or foreseeable environmental damage under standard conditions of use.
2.2. Label elements
In compliance with EC regulation No. 1272/2008 and its amendments.
No labelling requirements for this mixture.
2.3. Other hazards
The mixture does not contain substances classified as ‘Substances of Very High Concern' (SVHC) >= 0.1% published by the European
CHemicals Agency (ECHA) under article 57 of REACH: http://echa.europa.e...date-list-table
The mixture satisfies neither the PBT nor the vPvB criteria for mixtures in accordance with annexe XIII of the REACH regulations EC 1907/2006

Edited by corgicoupe, 19 November 2018 - 16:39.

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#33 Stompie

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:36

Thank you. I appreciate your comment. I want to make one minor change in the design and will post an image when I feel it's right.

 

Did you make the design change and, if so, how did it turn out?



#34 corgicoupe

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 21:39

Yes, and thanks for asking. I decided that the swell at the nib end was forcing me to hold the pen further back than was comfortable for my, so I eliminated it, giving the pen holder more the shape of a Parker 51. I find this to me comfortable.

 

The upper holder is made from Ipe, scavenged from the Coney Island Boardwalk destroyed by hurricane Sandy. The lower holder is made from Ebony. The differences in the tail end are just for aesthetics.

 

fpn_1542749636__ipe__ebony_dip_pens_095.


Edited by corgicoupe, 20 November 2018 - 21:39.

Baptiste knew how to make a short job long

For love of it. And yet not waste time either.

                                                         Robert Frost


#35 Stompie

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 04:04

Yes, and thanks for asking. I decided that the swell at the nib end was forcing me to hold the pen further back than was comfortable for my, so I eliminated it, giving the pen holder more the shape of a Parker 51. I find this to me comfortable.

 

The upper holder is made from Ipe, scavenged from the Coney Island Boardwalk destroyed by hurricane Sandy. The lower holder is made from Ebony. The differences in the tail end are just for aesthetics.

 

fpn_1542749636__ipe__ebony_dip_pens_095.

 

Great looking holders! Well done.

I like your scavenged wood sources, makes good sense to me! 



#36 corgicoupe

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 18:01

Since you liked the scavenged wood source, I thought you would like this pen stand for my Esterbrook collection. The piece came to me with the rough irregular edge; I drilled the holes and finished it with walnut oil.

 

fpn_1542823245__ipe_pen_stand.jpg


Baptiste knew how to make a short job long

For love of it. And yet not waste time either.

                                                         Robert Frost


#37 pajaro

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 18:30

Very nice pen stand.  A good concept.


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#38 Stompie

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 04:08

That's a great idea for a pen stand.

 

Do you know what wood it is?



#39 corgicoupe

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 14:09

It is Ipe. It is very heavy and hard, which is why it was used for the boardwalk at Coney Island.

Edited by corgicoupe, 22 November 2018 - 14:11.

Baptiste knew how to make a short job long

For love of it. And yet not waste time either.

                                                         Robert Frost


#40 DrPenfection

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 14:44

Very nice work!  I have only use a dip pen a few times for ink samples.  I've thought it might be fun to use when I have more leisure time.  But I love your nib holders.  Well done!


Best always,

Deborah (aka DrPenfection)







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