Ink Recommendations For Flex Pens- Black, Brown, Green, Red/black

[Simulacrum]

Hi, I have recently acquired 2 vintage flex pens (1930's watermans lever fillers) and I'm not comfortable using my normal inks in them (mostly pigment based) -

I'm looking for some advice on some inks for them. Ideally they would be permanent, eternal, neutral ph, fade resistant etc. , but I already know that I won't be able to check all those boxes and stay 'safe for vintage pens' so I'm expecting to have to flex somewhere - I will give up water resistant qualities, and try to maintain a neutral-ish ph with decent fade resistance.

So far I'm thinking of the following inks. Any reason not to use them, or any thoughts or suggestions of other inks to use instead?

Black--love black - my main ink. (I usually use Plat.Carbon Black - it's awesome, if you didn't know lol)

J. Herbin Perle Noire, or Pelikan 4001

Brown - Cacao du bresil, or Lie de The - (leaning towards Cacao - grey brown from what I can tell)

Green - J. Herbin's Vert Empire , or Diamine Evergreen.

Red Brown/Black - (something kind of dried, darkened blood-looking) Diamine Oxblood, or Diamine Rustic Brown, (Noodlers Red Black, or Black Swan/English Rose would be nice but I'm reluctant to put those in these pens)

Blue - I'm not sure really yet.

Thanks.

[minddance]

I have enjoyed Herbin Lie de The, Edelstein Smoky Quartz in a waterman 12

[Simulacrum]

I have enjoyed Herbin Lie de The, Edelstein Smoky Quartz in a waterman 12

Wow, Edelstein Smoky Quartz looks awesome - is that just a normal ink that is safe for vintage pens ? Love the colour.

[minddance]

I am not aware of the safety of inks but it flushed out quite easily

 

Herbin inks serve me very well and prevent railroading quite well. Poussiere de Lune, Eclat, Bleu Nuit, Perle Noir have all provided enjoyment too. They flow enthusiastically especially when flexed.

 

Iroshizuku does not work well in my Waterman 12 for flex writing but Tsuki Yo behaved rather well in my limited experience.

[NicolausPiscator]

In my vintage pens I use e. g. Diamine inks, Herbin and Sailor. I wouldn't use IG-inks and especially I wouldn't use Noodler's inks im theses pens.

[Simulacrum]

Thanks for the responses. The diamine and herbin seems to be pretty universally agreed upon as safe for vintage pens. Ive read a number of warnings about the Japanese inks as they tend to be more alkaline. You havent had any issues using the sailor inks ?

[ReadyFireAim]

Anything from Bungubox or PR

You may need to add a drop of Liquitex per fill-up.

 

If the vintage flexy pens are made from ebonite & gold.

You can't hurt them with any ink.

They are bomb-proof.

 

The sac is a replacement item.

I recommend using the silicone ones because they don't harden as fast.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[Simulacrum]

Interesting. I like this idea as it opens the door to more inks but you seem to be in the minority. Why does everyone make such a big deal about only using safe inks if they are pretty bomb proof ?

[ReadyFireAim]

Why does everyone make such a big deal about only using safe inks if they are pretty bomb proof ?

 

I have no clue.

In this video you can see Nathan Tardif (Noodler's ink) testing all kinds of toxic chemicals on ebonite. (skip to 30 sec. in)

As we know, gold is about as inert a metal as you can get.

 

The only thing left is the sac and silicone seems to work very well for me.

 

If your pen is made from something other than ebonite, you might want to ask about it.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[inkstainedruth]

Thanks for the responses. The diamine and herbin seems to be pretty universally agreed upon as safe for vintage pens. Ive read a number of warnings about the Japanese inks as they tend to be more alkaline. You havent had any issues using the sailor inks ?

 

Yup, but not remotely water resistant. OTOH, I ran J Herbin through a Parker 61 (capillary filler) for several months, just refiling as needed, and then another couple of months by flushing the pen just enough to get the flow restarted.

Only you can determine in the long run what inks will be okay for you. Agreed that pigment inks are probably not a good idea. I don't have any Waterman pens, so I don't know what inks would work -- but I do have other lever filler pens. Most of those get a much more limited diet than my modern pens. I would look at wetter inks (I've run De Atramentis standard line inks and Birmingham inks in some vintage pens. My Red Shadow Wave Vacumatic has only seen Waterman Mysterious Blue in it since I got it (roughly 2-1/2 years ago at this point). I've put De Atramentis Red Roses in another Vac, and may have had premature sac failure. But it looked so good coming out of the pen.

If you can find it, vintage Quick Microfilm Black might be a good choice for you -- it's pretty water resistant, well behaved, and of course designed for vintage pens because it was MADE in the time of when those pens *weren't* vintage. For that matter, any vintage ink labeled as "Permanent" might be a good choice -- but they're not always easy to find.

I don't have enough experience with Sailor inks in vintage pens to advise you overall. But I did have original version Sailor Sky High stain the brand new Plyglass sac on a Parker 51; no, the pen wasn't NOS -- it was a replacement sac (so much for the dictates I've read that Sailor is a "safe" brand...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[MsRedpen]

Wow, Edelstein Smoky Quartz looks awesome - is that just a normal ink that is safe for vintage pens ? Love the colour.

 

Yes, normal and safe and very interesting brown! And limited edition...

I am pretty conservative with my vintage pen - inks combination, using only Pelikan, J.Herbin, GvFC and R&K inks. It is not a rational or scientifically based choice at all, and always glad to read other’ s recommendations.

My modern pens get the taste of everything...Diamine, Sailor, Iroshizuku, Noodlers...

 

Cacao du Bresil is one of my favourites, but it is much more of a soft grey than brown.

 

I am sure you will read tonn of reviews in Ink review forum before making your “6 essential” choice!

[welch]

Same answer: Sheaffer Skrip and Parker Quink.

 

- Sheaffer from '50s - 70s is easy to find on EBay. In fact, there is a "master bottle" of Sheaffer Blue-Black on Ebay right now for about $30. Those were the bottles used to fill student desk ink-jars way back when all students used fountain pens or stick pens.

 

- Parker Quink in the art-deco bottles is also easy to find, as is later Quink. Just make sure it has Solv-X. Why Solv-X? Read the advertising from WW2, such as "Uncle Same wants YOU to save pen repair materials" ( Or "you flunked foresight" https://www.ebay.com/itm/1943-Parker-Pen-Co-Janesville-Wisconsin-Quink-Fountain-Pen-Ink-College-Girls-Ad/401481135609?hash=item5d7a23f5f9:g:K9IAAOSwoRBaZWOv

 

Skrip and Quink came in blue, blue-black, brown, red, green. Maybe other colors. Permanent. I have a "start school" notice signed in 1953...still a bright blue. Written documents have lasted.

[tadas]

If you can find it, vintage Quick Microfilm Black might be a good choice for you -- it's pretty water resistant, well behaved, and of course designed for vintage pens because it was MADE in the time of when those pens *weren't* vintage. For that matter, any vintage ink labeled as "Permanent" might be a good choice -- but they're not always easy to find.

 

I'm on my third bottle of Microfilm Black, and I love it. In my flex pens, it feels "cushiony" when I write with it. It tends to dry a little grey - my guess is that's from age. It also does wonders for cleaning out pens - I love Solv-X. Trouble-free no matter where I use it.

[Simulacrum]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far. I just wish I could make up my mind ! lol. I was quite certain i wasn't going to use nano pigment inks or IG inks in these pens but now I'm not so sure. It seems if you clean them out regularly it's maybe not a problem ? Some people seem to say the vintage pens like these are perfect for IG inks and probably that's what was in them when the pens were new ? Gold nibs - no corrosion. The ink is permanent and archival (which is preferable to me). So why the controversy ?

It seems there's two views on this :

 

1. Don't risk it - there can be some precipitate that comes out of solution and will clog the pen ?

2. If there is a precipitate, it will clean out if you rinse your pens out properly.

 

Is it just a matter of not wanting to worry about cleaning the pen, or is it a matter of permanently ruining the pen - I don't want to do this obviously.

 

It seems a lot of people who all seem more experienced than me have differing points of view -but is it really just a matter of cleaning it or could there be permanent damage ?

[ac12]

For brown:

- Edelstine Smokey Quartz. And as was said it is a LE ink. So if you like it, get it NOW while you still can. And get several bottles. Once it is gone, it is gone.

- Waterman Brown is one that I like.

- Some like Montblanc Toffee brown.

 

Try some Sheaffer Turquoise.

I had not thought of turquoise as a vintage ink color, until I saw images of old pages from the Civil War era, written with turquoise ink, or at least the current color of the ink is turquoise. Quite neat.

 

Green:

I like and use Pelikan Dark Green.

I'm not so keen on Waterman Green and less so on Pelikan Brilliant Green. But Waterman Green depends on the pen, it wrote beautifully on ONE of my pens, but only that ONE pen.

 

Diamine is a problem brand. The problems is that their ink line is so WIDE, with different characteristics, that one cannot make a broad statement about their inks. Some are good, others are problematic. You have to look for reviews, or buy and try.

- Sherwood Green clogs many of my pens, vintage and modern. It has only worked reliably in 2 vintage pens.

- Red Dragon on the other hand has worked fine, in the 3 pens that I tried it in.

I have several other Diamine inks that I have not gotten around to trying/using.

 

Older pens tend to have wider ink channels than modern pens, so the micro-pigment inks should be OK. If you regularly flush a pen with micro-pigment ink, you should be OK. The problem is if the pigment is allowed to accumulate then the ink channel would get narrower (like cholesterol in the blood vessels) or dry in the pen then you could have hard clog.

 

 

NB,

A silicon ink sac is not a 'cure-all.' Like all sac materials, it has its pros and cons. Read this page:

http://www.vintagepens.com/FAQrepair/pen_sacs.shtml

David knows his stuff. We determined that silicon sacs are NOT a good match for a desk pen, where I had intended to use it. IOW, he talked me out of using it in an application where it would not work well.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ac12

[max dog]

Waterman blues and blacks should be safe for rubber sacs. Stay away from red dyes in general as they have been known to cause sacs to fail.

Edited February 5, 2018 by max dog

[truthpil]

Interesting. I like this idea as it opens the door to more inks but you seem to be in the minority. Why does everyone make such a big deal about only using safe inks if they are pretty bomb proof ?

 

The reason is because people don't want to have to keep replacing sacs all the time. If you like to take apart pens and replace the sacs yourself, then you can use most inks in a vintage pen because you can always clean out any clogs or other issues when you replace the sac. I personally, don't trust myself with such a task nor do I want to spend the money to have someone else do it, so I want to use inks that will make the sac last as long as possible.

 

I've seen guys on YouTube putting the most troublesome of Noodler's eternal inks in their Waterman 52 wet noodles without any problems, but then they mention that they change their own sacs.

 

As to ink recommendations, for a funky brown-grey I'd also recommend R&K Sepia. It's got excellent water resistance on absorbent paper, has awesome shading, and washes easily out of the pen. It does look a little murky and depressed though. For vintage flex, my favorite is Herbin Lie De The which also has some decent water resistance and is a little more cheerful.

 

As for blacks, the two you listed are perfect (Herbin and Pelikan 4001), but I'm a little partial to Herbin Perle Noir because it's a darker black.

 

You should get some vintage inks for your vintage pens. As another poster mentioned, Parker Quink and Sheaffer Skrip are great. Two of my all-time favorite inks are vintage Parker Quink Permanent Blue-Black (with Solv-X) and Sheaffer Skrip #22 Permanent Blue-Black (with RC-35 or something like that). They weren't joking about the permanence; with both inks I've found the water resistance to be better than most IG inks. They also shade like mad with a flex nib.

 

Those are my two cents. Enjoy your pens!!

[Simulacrum]

Thanks for the info about the sacs. I'll have to check out how hard that is to do. And another plus for the vintage inks. Everyone seems to love those (can't be a coincidence) - I'll have to check out those too.

 

Most people would seem to agree with you as well about the Perle Noire being darker. (I just ordered some!)

 

Thanks for the thorough response.

[senzen]

 

Hi, I have recently acquired 2 vintage flex pens (1930's watermans lever fillers) and I'm not comfortable using my normal inks in them (mostly pigment based) -

I'm looking for some advice on some inks for them. Ideally they would be permanent, eternal, neutral ph, fade resistant etc. , but I already know that I won't be able to check all those boxes and stay 'safe for vintage pens' so I'm expecting to have to flex somewhere - I will give up water resistant qualities, and try to maintain a neutral-ish ph with decent fade resistance.

So far I'm thinking of the following inks. Any reason not to use them, or any thoughts or suggestions of other inks to use instead?

Black--love black - my main ink. (I usually use Plat.Carbon Black - it's awesome, if you didn't know lol)

J. Herbin Perle Noire, or Pelikan 4001

Brown - Cacao du bresil, or Lie de The - (leaning towards Cacao - grey brown from what I can tell)

Green - J. Herbin's Vert Empire , or Diamine Evergreen.

Red Brown/Black - (something kind of dried, darkened blood-looking) Diamine Oxblood, or Diamine Rustic Brown, (Noodlers Red Black, or Black Swan/English Rose would be nice but I'm reluctant to put those in these pens)

Blue - I'm not sure really yet.

Thanks.

 

 

Black: I have Perle Noire, it's just about perfect, I've heard good things about Aurora.

Brown: How about Iroshizuku Yama Guri? Brown with grey, yellow undetones...

Green: Vert Empire is the green for me.

Blue... More towards green? Iroshizuku Kon Peki, Callifolio Équinoxe 6. More towards purple? Iroshizuku Asa Gao is drop dead gorgeous. Just blue: Tsuyu Kusa, maybe Sailor Souten, both stunning in wet pens.

[JakobS]

I think a few inks that shade would look great with a flex nib, such as Diamine Tyrian Purple, Monaco Red, Autumn Oak, Umber, or KWZ Brown Pink, Honey, IG Turquoise, IG Aztec Gold, or IG Green Gold.

 

If the pens have gold nibs, and plastic or ebonite feeds there is no need to worry about IG inks, don't let them dry out in the pen, otherwise maintain them as you would any other ink.

 

I find KWZ inks wash out very readily from pens, so I don't need to open and close the lever excessively on many of my vintage pens. This is one aspect of using some of the heavily saturated inks currently made, wear and tear on vintage parts from excessive cleaning. Also another reason not to let inks dry out in these pens if possible.

 

With all brands of ink, the more saturated inks in a line have a higher likelihood of struggling to keep the dye from precipitating out which could cause clogs, so becoming familiar with which inks are more saturated helps decrease running into clogs. Of the 60+ inks I have, I have only put aside one ink because of clogging, of which I knew it would do so before hand, all the others have behaved as expected in a variety of pens. Sometimes this can also be a matter of the pen quality, and integrity of the inner cap.

 

Overall, I think you original list of inks is a great starting point, and don't see any of them being problematic.