Parker 51 Vacumatic Kullock Questions

[Tom_Moritz]

Hello guys,

 

I very recently bought a 51 Kullock Demonstrator and I'm having some trepidations. The diaphragm is shot, gummy and has to be removed which is easy enough once the vacumatic pump is removed, however I cannot seem to remove it. I have soaked it for several hours now and carefully applied heat to the rear with a good hairdryer but this far I've only succeeded in stripping some of the black coating from the aluminum threads. This was a lesson onto itself for me as I had thought the pumps were made from plastic.

 

I have watched the videos online covering the removal and repair of the system, however my pump cannot be removed. I cannot determine what, if any adhesive was use to lock the thread, though I do know it's not necessary to use adhesives on the threads and will not when replacing the unit. I fear the last repair may have seen the use of something like Loctite or a permanent adhesive. This pump simply will not budge.

 

I would like to inquire if anyone here has an opinion on the brass pumps available at Pentooling's store, they seem quite well made. I doubt they would increase the value of the pen if installed but I quite like the idea of more resistant pump.

 

Lastly I would like to ask what the approximate value of this item would be should it be restored to working order. I certainly did not buy this pen to mend and resell, but the frustration it presents has me looking to pass it on to someone with more appreciation for it. I really don't want to farm out the work, especially seeing the repair is relatively easy, but its looking that way at this point.

 

Thank you guys.

[Glenn-SC]

If you bought a new pen and the sack has already decomposed I would question the quality and resale value.

[Tom_Moritz]

If you bought a new pen and the sack has already decomposed I would question the quality and resale value.

 

The diaphragms of the old vacumatics will rot or fail over time, however they can be replaced and the pen restored. I'm sure this pen can be restored, I'm simply curious as to what I should list it at should I choose to sell it after it's restored.

Edited February 2, 2018 by ClockworkCollector

[FarmBoy]

There is no need to soak a Vacumatic filler.

 

Seem to recall seeing fantasy 51 demonstrator kits for around 80 on line.

[mitto]

Use a vac pump removal tool.

[Vintagepens]

Soaking was a bad idea. You don't want water in the filler unit. Could in fact make removal more difficult.

[bigt]

I recently had a big struggle to get one of these out-mine was a 1945 vac junior- even with repeated heat (careful !), over a couple of days and using a proper vac tool and a piece of rubber from a bicycle tube to grip the barrel it would not budge-it was literally making my fingers bleed - I finally tried some naptha-lighter fluid around and inside the barrel and with a bit more effort it finally came out. Looking at the filler afterward it looked as if some adhesive ?shellac had been used to glue the cut end of the diaphragm to the metal part of the filler.

I don't think my pen had previously ever had its diaphragm restored as the filler threads were black (not now) and most of the rubber sac was crisp and ossified

Tony

[ac12]

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Hello guys,

 

I very recently bought a 51 Kullock Demonstrator and I'm having some trepidations. The diaphragm is shot, gummy and has to be removed which is easy enough once the vacumatic pump is removed, however I cannot seem to remove it. I have soaked it for several hours now and carefully applied heat to the rear with a good hairdryer but this far I've only succeeded in stripping some of the black coating from the aluminum threads. This was a lesson onto itself for me as I had thought the pumps were made from plastic.

 

I have watched the videos online covering the removal and repair of the system, however my pump cannot be removed. I cannot determine what, if any adhesive was use to lock the thread, though I do know it's not necessary to use adhesives on the threads and will not when replacing the unit. I fear the last repair may have seen the use of something like Loctite or a permanent adhesive. This pump simply will not budge.

 

I would like to inquire if anyone here has an opinion on the brass pumps available at Pentooling's store, they seem quite well made. I doubt they would increase the value of the pen if installed but I quite like the idea of more resistant pump.

 

Lastly I would like to ask what the approximate value of this item would be should it be restored to working order. I certainly did not buy this pen to mend and resell, but the frustration it presents has me looking to pass it on to someone with more appreciation for it. I really don't want to farm out the work, especially seeing the repair is relatively easy, but its looking that way at this point.

 

Thank you guys.

 

The basic value is in the Parker parts; the nib+collector+cap+filler. The body and hood would be scrapped.

Soaking could have started rust in the filler, so you may loose the value of the filler.

It is not a Parker, so you will not get Parker price for the pen. I am going to guess, maybe $75, restored. Search eBay sold listings and see what you find.

 

The repair is in theory simple.

The primary problem with a Vac is that you need the Vac wrench/tool to get the filler out, without damaging the threads on the filler. And that tool is somewhat expensive, about $40. I would not buy it just for a single pen. If you have the tool, that issue is gone.

 

When using heat, you need to apply enough heat to expand the pen, so it releases its grip on the filler. But not so much that you soften/melt/ignite the plastic barrel. The problem is, while the surface may be hot, the inside may still be cold. You need to get the heat through the plastic. But plastic is a poor conductor of heat. This is typically where a novice will BREAK the pen; with too much heat to soften/warp/melt the plastic or ignite the plastic. And I've done both

 

A Kullock pen is not a vintage pen, and should be new enough that the diaphram should not have failed due to age.

But with anything, the bell curve applies, and you could have a failure out on one of the tails of the curve.

Then if the maker simply put a filler and diaphram from another pen, without replacing the diaphram, then all bets are off. Who knows how old that diaphram is.

If a non-standard ink was used, again all bets are off. Most inks today are not made for latex sacs, as most pens today do not have them, so some of todays inks may not behave well with latex sacs/diaphrams.

[Tom_Moritz]

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The basic value is in the Parker parts; the nib+collector+cap+filler. The body and hood would be scrapped.

Soaking could have started rust in the filler, so you may loose the value of the filler.

It is not a Parker, so you will not get Parker price for the pen. I am going to guess, maybe $75, restored. Search eBay sold listings and see what you find.

 

The repair is in theory simple.

The primary problem with a Vac is that you need the Vac wrench/tool to get the filler out, without damaging the threads on the filler. And that tool is somewhat expensive, about $40. I would not buy it just for a single pen. If you have the tool, that issue is gone.

 

When using heat, you need to apply enough heat to expand the pen, so it releases its grip on the filler. But not so much that you soften/melt/ignite the plastic barrel. The problem is, while the surface may be hot, the inside may still be cold. You need to get the heat through the plastic. But plastic is a poor conductor of heat. This is typically where a novice will BREAK the pen; with too much heat to soften/warp/melt the plastic or ignite the plastic. And I've done both

 

A Kullock pen is not a vintage pen, and should be new enough that the diaphram should not have failed due to age.

But with anything, the bell curve applies, and you could have a failure out on one of the tails of the curve.

Then if the maker simply put a filler and diaphram from another pen, without replacing the diaphram, then all bets are off. Who knows how old that diaphram is.

If a non-standard ink was used, again all bets are off. Most inks today are not made for latex sacs, as most pens today do not have them, so some of todays inks may not behave well with latex sacs/diaphrams.

 

Yeah what I've come to realize is I got gyped. These parts are very rare at this point and can't really be obtained for less than an arm and a leg. You win some, you lose some, what can I say. I think I will try to sell the parts I've bought up and just take the hit. To get it working is $45 and 4 months of waiting no matter who I talk too. The tool is that much money to gamble on doing it myself. eBay currently has two people selling these components, an overpriced store which I already feel has gyped me buying parts, and Kullock and his partners themselves.

 

I'm confident in my abilities, but I'm no fool either. Getting the filler out is the least of my worries, its the pellet that worries me the most. If I ruin the hard rubber cup I'm done. I've thought about getting an upgraded filler, but thats even more money going into what I've already paid for. I'll likely need one anyways as the threads are already a bit suspect. Mind you all I don't have a blind cap tassie, nor a proper demonstrator cap. I wasn't aware they existed as the examples I found in the forums all had metal caps. These demonstrator caps are all vastly over priced. I've just about given up.

[Tom_Moritz]

Soaking was a bad idea. You don't want water in the filler unit. Could in fact make removal more difficult.

 

Hello Sir,

 

I don't know why I didn't consult your writings prior. In retrospect is was rather foolish. Many sources posit soaking the pen will help claiming it somehow helps to loosen the ossified rubber. Truthfully I figured it couldn't hurt, but the few hours it did done may have done more harm than good.

[Tom_Moritz]

There is no need to soak a Vacumatic filler.

 

Seem to recall seeing fantasy 51 demonstrator kits for around 80 on line.

 

Some time ago perhaps my friend. I understand these Kullock pieces were relatively common at some point. Now however that many hours of searching I've put it turn up nothing but Kullock's eBay and another seller I can only imagine gets the parts from him.

[The Write Pen]

if the sac is gummy, I suspect an ink choice. That gummy diaphragm is a common malady with certain inks. You can get it repaired for less than 1/2 of the price mentioned and much quicker. Kullocks are very nice pens. I've owned several and still use my 51 Magnum from time to time.

 

Regards,

 

danny

[Vintagepens]

I don't know how much you paid, but I do hope you didn't truly get cheated.

A Kullock "demonstrator" isn't worth what a Parker factory demonstrator would be worth, but it's still going to trade for more like $150 once restored and ready to use.

Do note that genuine Parker demonstrator 51s came with metal caps. The transparent plastic caps are modern fantasy creations (leaving aside for the moment some very very rare and only partial exceptions).

 

 

Yeah what I've come to realize is I got gyped. These parts are very rare at this point and can't really be obtained for less than an arm and a leg. You win some, you lose some, what can I say. I think I will try to sell the parts I've bought up and just take the hit. To get it working is $45 and 4 months of waiting no matter who I talk too. The tool is that much money to gamble on doing it myself. eBay currently has two people selling these components, an overpriced store which I already feel has gyped me buying parts, and Kullock and his partners themselves.

 

I'm confident in my abilities, but I'm no fool either. Getting the filler out is the least of my worries, its the pellet that worries me the most. If I ruin the hard rubber cup I'm done. I've thought about getting an upgraded filler, but thats even more money going into what I've already paid for. I'll likely need one anyways as the threads are already a bit suspect. Mind you all I don't have a blind cap tassie, nor a proper demonstrator cap. I wasn't aware they existed as the examples I found in the forums all had metal caps. These demonstrator caps are all vastly over priced. I've just about given up.

[Chrissy]

You will never be able to get the pump out without a removal tool that's for sure. Once you get it out with a removal tool, you could install a new & complete brass pump which would eliminate the need for sacs, pellets and pellet pushers etc. That's what I did with mine.

[josepllcs]

You will never be able to get the pump out without a removal tool that's for sure. Once you get it out with a removal tool, you could install a new & complete brass pump which would eliminate the need for sacs, pellets and pellet pushers etc. That's what I did with mine.

Hi Chrissy,

 

I’m curious to see the brass pump system that you installed. Where can I found one fo these?

 

Thanks!

[bsenn]

FPN user name jaxxon makes brass and now very nice anodized aluminum filler units.

[FarmBoy]

Currently lots on eBay. 65 for the set.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-51-Vacumatic-DJ-Customized-FP-Red-Demonstrator-PARTS-w-System-12414/332561730743?hash=item4d6e394cb7:g:8FgAAOSw9LlajCfU

[pajaro]

Currently lots on eBay. 65 for the set.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-51-Vacumatic-DJ-Customized-FP-Red-Demonstrator-PARTS-w-System-12414/332561730743?hash=item4d6e394cb7:g:8FgAAOSw9LlajCfU

 

It has a hood, doesn't it?

[pajaro]

You will never be able to get the pump out without a removal tool that's for sure. Once you get it out with a removal tool, you could install a new & complete brass pump which would eliminate the need for sacs, pellets and pellet pushers etc. That's what I did with mine.

 

I used some plastic stretch bandage to cover the pump threads and turned it out by hand. I then put in one of jaxxon's brass pumps with sac installed. Vac lubricant is needed. The brass pump looks pretty good on a 51, and even better on a brown Vacumatic Junior. In fact, if it were not for Jaxxon's beautiful brass pump, I would have thrown that Vacumatic in the trash a long time ago. Decent display piece.

[mitto]

Currently lots on eBay. 65 for the set.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-51-Vacumatic-DJ-Customized-FP-Red-Demonstrator-PARTS-w-System-12414/332561730743?hash=item4d6e394cb7:g:8FgAAOSw9LlajCfU

$65 is the starting bid. It isn't the BIN price.