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Famous Person's Pen (Possibly)


16 replies to this topic

#1 peterg

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 16:32

https://www.easylive...oneers-lot-539/

 

The above is listed on an auction site. Personally I have reservations. It is recorded that Sir Winston preferred the Conway Stewart stylographic pen during the war, and that Conway's had to make them specially from stock as they were no longer in production.

 

I find it difficult to believe that he would have reverted to a pre war Swan in the 1950's. But, who knows?



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#2 MarcShiman

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 17:15

Yeah, that doesn't make much sense. That was more of a common person's pen anyway, and it would have been close to 40 years old at the time.



#3 Cob

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 17:24

And the pen is worth at best about £65 depending on the nib. £800-£1200? Ha ha ha!

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#4 Greenie

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 23:16

From the listing

 

"A vintage black hardened rubber Swan Mable Todd 'self-filler' fountain pen having 14ct gold nib, the top having gold plated clip bearing patent No1911 and complete with Swan insignia to lid top, all measuring 12.8cm in length. Provenance: Believed to have been the personal property of Sir Winston Churchill during his second premiership (1951-55) and used by Sir Winston to sign some State Papers which were then countersigned by a civil servant who inadvertently had no pen on his person and therefore used Sir Winston's pen to countersign and was then told by Sir Winston to 'keep the pen old boy and read before you sign.' The vendor of this pen is the Grandson of the aforementioned deceased civil servant."

 

Anyone who has watched "Antique Roadshow" has seen many family stories about an object's proud heritage busted with an expert review.  Grandpa told a great story!  But it seems very unlikely that the story is accurate. 



#5 Cob

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 16:00

I saw that pen sold at auction today.  It made £1550.

 

I find this perfectly impossible to understand!

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#6 Greenie

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 17:23

I need to find that bidder!

 

I have Mark Twain's Wirt and Conklin hard rubber pens!  Never before offered as a set! 

 

My grandfather told me that his grandfather used to walk by the author's house knowing that he was prone to throwing pens out of windows, and found these in the bushes.  Then the old fortune teller told him that one day people will speak through glowing boxes and sell things to strangers for vast amounts of treasure.  TRUTH!



#7 torstar

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 17:29

maybe John Voigt owned it once?



#8 Cob

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 18:15

Do you think I could get away with having  'John H. Mabie' - or "Franklin Delano Roosevelt" engraved on some old Swan eyedroppers?

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#9 Cob

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 18:16

I need to find that bidder!

 

I have Mark Twain's Wirt and Conklin hard rubber pens!  Never before offered as a set! 

 

My grandfather told me that his grandfather used to walk by the author's house knowing that he was prone to throwing pens out of windows, and found these in the bushes.  Then the old fortune teller told him that one day people will speak through glowing boxes and sell things to strangers for vast amounts of treasure.  TRUTH!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#10 Parkette

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 18:23

Very difficult to have perfect provenance on connecting a pen to a person, even engravings can be faked. I bid a vacumatic up to £280 because it had a film star connection and yet George Michaels 149 engraved as a gift from Sony went for £500.

 

Provenance is everything. My father has an axe with a four foot shaft that he said had been used in the English Civil War, mid 1600s. Later found out that both the head and shaft had been replaced.


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#11 Cob

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 18:33

Very difficult to have perfect provenance on connecting a pen to a person, even engravings can be faked. I bid a vacumatic up to £280 because it had a film star connection and yet George Michaels 149 engraved as a gift from Sony went for £500.

 

Provenance is everything. My father has an axe with a four foot shaft that he said had been used in the English Civil War, mid 1600s. Later found out that both the head and shaft had been replaced.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#12 Olya

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 21:59

I need to find that bidder!

 

I have Mark Twain's Wirt and Conklin hard rubber pens!  Never before offered as a set! 

 

My grandfather told me that his grandfather used to walk by the author's house knowing that he was prone to throwing pens out of windows, and found these in the bushes.  Then the old fortune teller told him that one day people will speak through glowing boxes and sell things to strangers for vast amounts of treasure.  TRUTH!

This has me laughing myself silly, esp the bolded parts!!! :lol: :thumbup:

 

 

Very difficult to have perfect provenance on connecting a pen to a person, even engravings can be faked. I bid a vacumatic up to £280 because it had a film star connection and yet George Michaels 149 engraved as a gift from Sony went for £500.

 

Provenance is everything. My father has an axe with a four foot shaft that he said had been used in the English Civil War, mid 1600s. Later found out that both the head and shaft had been replaced.

:lol:

 

In theory one could buy an era appropriate pen and have it with a famous person's name from then engraved and try to sell it off as genuine... Eg get a Parker 51 and engrave "WLS Churchill" or some such. Though I suppose the wear & tear and method of an engraving might be a giveaway to it being fake...



#13 CS388

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 22:31

Churchill is very popular at the moment. The Oldman film,and he featured heavily in the Netflix series The Crown, and there's a queue outside the CWR in London every day. Maybe someone is cashing in on the resurgence in popularity?

 

I think Greenie makes a valid point - why would a wealthy aristocrat be using a 40 year old run-of-the-mill pen?

The anecdote mentioned in the listing sounds nothing like the old curmudgeon Churchill was said to have to become by the 1950's. And the main brands associated with him were Onoto and Conway Stewart.

 

All in all, a bit suspect, inho.

 

Despite all this, my heart keeps a glimmer of hope that it is all true, and it really was his pen, and he was a kindly old man.

 

Enjoy



#14 Larry Barrieau

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 23:01

A civil servant who is going to have to countersign papers in front of the great Winston Churchill, and his doesn't have a pen?  That's why he was there.

 

You are right:  Antique Roadshow 


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#15 Cob

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 06:15

Churchill is very popular at the moment. The Oldman film,and he featured heavily in the Netflix series The Crown, and there's a queue outside the CWR in London every day. Maybe someone is cashing in on the resurgence in popularity?

 

I think Greenie makes a valid point - why would a wealthy aristocrat be using a 40 year old run-of-the-mill pen?

The anecdote mentioned in the listing sounds nothing like the old curmudgeon Churchill was said to have to become by the 1950's. And the main brands associated with him were Onoto and Conway Stewart.

 

All in all, a bit suspect, inho.

 

Despite all this, my heart keeps a glimmer of hope that it is all true, and it really was his pen, and he was a kindly old man.

 

Enjoy

 

In the 1950s Churchill lived in South of France part of the year.  His neighbour there, writer Mr Somerset Maugham, was heard to remark: "If you think I'm gaga, you should see Winston!"

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#16 ParramattaPaul

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 07:46

When I read the phrase, '...believed to...', on any auction site, I find my self asking, '"Believed" by whom ; scammers and fools?'



#17 CS388

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 01:50

A civil servant who is going to have to countersign papers in front of the great Winston Churchill, and he doesn't have a pen?  That's why he was there.

 

Very good point. I'd missed that. Almost proof positive (of bunkum) for me.





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