Steel Vs Gold - Whats Best On Low-Quality Paper?

[rsexton]

I've got a few fine-nibbed Lamy Al-Stars that I use as everyday pens, and I've been looking for something nicer. I got a Shaeffer prelude, and a Lamy Studio, both with fine gold nibs. I like them both, for different reasons, but I'm really unhappy with their performance on the ordinary papers that I use at work.

 

My problem is that I don't really get to choose the paper I write on. Its not really practical for me to keep a personal stock of Rhodia pads and such for use at the office, or taking notes, and so on.

 

So heres the dilemma - both of these pens perform very badly on the general purpose paper I have access to in my daily life. My handwriting isn't very large, and they both put down way too much ink to work well. When I use them on Rhodia, they're both wonderful writers with a nice fine line. On everyday things like legal pads, my steel-nibbed, fine Lamy Al-stars are much better writers.

 

Is this unexpected? Should I keep different pens around based upon what sort of paper I encounter? That doesn't seem like a workable solution.

 

Is any gold nib going to perform reasonably well on low-grade paper? Do I just need to use extra-fine nibs?

 

 

 

 

 

[max dog]

With your wet gold nibs, consider getting a drier ink like Pelikan or Montblanc Blues and Blacks. My best recommendation is Montblanc Permanent Blue. It has incredible bleed resistance even on the cheapest of papers. I use it with my most broadest and wettest nibs on any paper including Moleskine and never, ever worry about bleed.

Edited January 24, 2018 by max dog

[pajaro]

Dry ink. Dry nib. Pelikan M200 F or EF and Pelikan 4110 inks.

[Jerome Tarshis]

Aside from the fact that some of the bad paper I've used has too little absorbency, not too much, let's assume that we're talking about FP-unfriendly paper that absorbs too much.

 

I agree with pajaro that the vital features are dryness of ink and dryness of nib.

 

In my experience, it's not the material. My favorite pen, the Parker 51, comes indifferently with gold and Octanium nibs. Among other pens where I've been able to compare gold and not-gold nibs in basically the same pen are 1950s Montblancs, 1980s Cross Century FPs and later models, and French Waterman pens from the very thin pen period. That experience leaves me bemused by all the gold vs. steel discussion I read. Other people's experience must differ from mine.

[Venemo]

It does not matter if it's steel or gold. What matters in this regard is the nib tipping which actually touches the paper, the "iridium" (historically made of iridium, these days made of different kinds of alloys). Gold vs steel has to do with the sprininess ("flex") of the nib, and aesthetics.

 

If I understand correctly, you have bleeding and feathering problems on poor paper.

 

You have several ways to solve that:

• Use inks which are dry and don't feather or bleed through. What comes to mind are Pelikan inks, and maybe ESSRI. Or look around in the ink review section to see if there is something you like.
• I don't recommend trying to adjust the pens, since you said they write well on good paper.
• You could try to get better office paper.

 

Hope this helps.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Not that I've noticed a difference between gold and steel, for wetness, some there is a difference....calling the wetness 'softer'.

A nail really be it gold or steel, won't make any difference...a nails a nail. I've have gold 18k nail Lamy that is just as nail as a Joy or Safari.

 

Defiantly dry inks; Pelikan 4001....if you can order some Blue Black from Germany or England, would be the driest. Not allowed to be wholesale imported into the US .... in some chemical is not on the 'approved' list. Is quite legal in the EU and the rest of the world.

....I believe Lamy is a driesh ink.

EF nibs, or even Japanese super narrow EF which would be a western EEF. Do look for a nail nib...no tine spread.

Noodlers has a very fast drying black ink.....in Pelikan 4001 black is gray on poor paper and skinny nibs.

I don't use black much, still have 1/2 the bottle of Pelikan black I bought a decade ago the minute I got back into fountain pens. If I ever get around to it I'll get some Aurora, for decades the slightly better black over Pelikan.....until Noodlers came in.....but you want the super fast drying Noodlers black.

Do clean your pen often with Noodlers.

 

Could learn to write larger.......take two sheets of paper, fold in half, 8 halves. Start on the first one write very, very large.......each 'half' a bit smaller until you reach your normal width.

Learning to write with your shoulder and arm will make your script larger....assuming you are now a finger writer.

Good to know how to do....should you ever desire to go up to a B for the sheer hell of it.

M&F on good paper at home, when one scribbles for the fun of looking at shading and or sheen inks are a good width.

There are free templates that allow you to print wider lines than the collage, that would encourage you to write larger with wider lines.

 

Well the Pelikan 200 is a regular flex nib, so could be a bit too naturally tend to be wide, if one has heavier hands.

A nail is good in there is no tine spread.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[ReadyFireAim]

I goofed up doing a flex modification on an Ahab nib after grinding the tip to XXF perfection

After being bummed out, I stuck it in a singularity with an ebonite feed that I had screwed up earlier.

This is the result...

I don't know how common this is for a FP to be able to do this, but it makes a great crappy paper- work pen.

(No picture of pen because it is at work)

Edited January 24, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[dennis_f]

I use XF pens (gold and steel) most of the time, and find that they don't feather as badly as my larger nibs on bad paper (think typical OfficeDepot/Staples lined paper, or HP printer paper). That said, my Lamy2000 with an XF is a wetter pen, and it bleeds and feathers... so the nib grade may not be the limiting factor.

 

If you're considering dry inks, there's a very useful thread that started a few days ago, here:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/332006-dry-ink-for-a-lamy-2000/

[rsexton]

Thanks everybody for the useful replies. Pelican 4001 ink is pretty easy to get. I'll give that a try.

 

What I am sure of is that that the 14k Lamy nib is wetter than that its steel equivalent. It sounds like I should be using XF nibs, or something drier.

 

I've had the same experience with my fine Kaweco student - the nib is pretty stiff and its not as nice a writer as my gold-nibbed pens, but it performs well on all sorts of paper.

[rsexton]

A follow-up:

 

I got some Pelican 4001 ink. Its definitely bleeds less than the Shaeffer ink that I'm using in my Prelude. Its much better, but still not enough for my tastes,

 

I'm still experimenting with nibs, inks an pens to figure out what works for me.

 

Thanks for the tips.

[dcwaites]

#1 - Ink. Inks that bleed less -

Pelikan 4001 as mentioned above

Sheaffer Skrip

Noodler's Black. If that still bleeds, then Noodler's X-Feather.

Sailor Kiwaguro Black or Sailor Sei-Boku Blue-Black

Platinum Carbon Black or Platinum Pigment Blue

 

#2 - Pen - Fine Nib

You need as fine and dry a nib as you can tolerate.

I am currently using a Wing Sung 698 with Fine Nib, set to medium dry and Platinum Pigment Blue, but some papers, i.e. Modena and cheap office diary still bleed through.

[Honeybadgers]

best behaved ink on any paper is hands down diamine registrar's blue black. it's an iron gall, and a harsh one at that, so a gold nib may be a better idea for long term use.

 

Best behaved normal inks are, in my eye, sailor jentle. They are heavily bleed and feather resistant. I find them even better than 4001.

 

If you're writing on crappy american paper, EF is as broad as you can go on western nibs, and F on japanese.

 

My lamy 2000 F is unusable on copy paper. my EF is fine.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Chrissy]

I agree with the other members in that it whether the nib is made from gold or steel isn't the problem. It's how much ink the pen is laying down on the cheap paper that is the problem.

 

You might not enjoy the experience of writing with EF nibs, but it's easy enough to try one in a Lamy Al-star as replacement nibs are cheap to buy.

 

With your Sheaffer (note correct spelling) Prelude and Lamy Studio it's worth trying drier inks at work on your cheaper paper, or just using your Lamy Al-stars at work since that's where you have to use the cheaper paper.

 

Pelikan (correct spelling) ink is usually dry, so that might be all you need for a fix at work so that you can write with your gold nibs.

[Honeybadgers]

I really don't think 4001 is well behaved. Yes, it's drier, but it still feathers and bleeds. I recommend sailor jentle inks for everyday use.

[senzen]

I goofed up doing a flex modification on an Ahab nib after grinding the tip to XXF perfection

After being bummed out, I stuck it in a singularity with an ebonite feed that I had screwed up earlier.

This is the result...

IMG_0710.JPG

I don't know how common this is for a FP to be able to do this, but it makes a great crappy paper- work pen.

(No picture of pen because it is at work)

 

That is quite amazing. Of course you realize what you've done, you've created the sub sect "people who only write on toilet paper"...

[ReadyFireAim]

 

That is quite amazing. Of course you realize what you've done, you've created the sub sect "people who only write on toilet paper"...

 

I was so amazed that it wrote well on newspaper that I had to see where the limits were.

On regular FP paper it puts down an extremely fine line and dries about as fast as a rollerball.

 

At work it's great because I have to fill in a couple items on one side, flip the page over & sign before handing it to someone.

I got ink on someone's hands once (not this pen) and they got a confused look on their face and told me my desk must be wet.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[rsexton]

Update #2!

 

I got a EF nib for my Lamy, and bought a $5 Platinum Preppy.

 

The EF Lamy and the Preppy write well on the more absorbent paper. They both put down about the right amount of ink. Interestingly enough, they are both less satisfying writers on higher quality papers - on a less absorbent paper, they don't put down much ink. I think its a matter of personal taste.

 

I have concluded that it's unrealistic to carry one pen that's a good (at least to me) writer on all of the paper that I encounter in my daily life. Perhaps I'll just buy my own notebooks for use at work.

[Inkling13]

:

Edited February 4, 2018 by Inkling13

[minddance]

A fine Platinum or Pilot nib, gold or stainless steel do not quite matter. They are bone dry to me out of the box, unadjusted. Ink them with Waterman Serenity Blue or Iroshizuku, and there won't be any problem at all, the only possible problem, in my experience, would be getting the inks to even flow at all.

 

Extremely frugal and petty with inks, you could even try writing on tissue papers.

[minddance]

I cannot second the Pelikan M200ef or f option because these nibs are rather free flowing. But if you paired them with Rohrer and Klingner Scabiosa then no problem at all.