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Flex Vs Non-Flex


jhataway

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"""There is no such thing as an unmodified FA. Thats is the way they come with the shoulders cut out. Soft nibs are standard options from Pilot on the 74 (SF, SFM, SM) so they are not modified. Modification means taking something and changing the way they normally appear. None of these nibs are modified!""" :huh: :unsure:

 

Yes they are!

At the factory a man or a machine grinds the half moons into the nib....there for modifying the nib, before it leaves the factory. :rolleyes:

Half a decade ago or so, that grinding of the nibs so half moons were in the Pilots was new. Folks like PB started doing the same thing to other nibs.

 

They are as modified as the Ahab Mod, except they were modified from stock nibs in the factory.

 

I don't have to go try one......I can see little half moons....which is a modification of normal nibs....be that ground or stamped; the basic nib has been modified. It ... has ..... little .... half ..... moons ....in ...it!

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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"""There is no such thing as an unmodified FA. Thats is the way they come with the shoulders cut out. Soft nibs are standard options from Pilot on the 74 (SF, SFM, SM) so they are not modified. Modification means taking something and changing the way they normally appear. None of these nibs are modified!""" :huh: :unsure:

 

Yes they are!

At the factory a man or a machine grinds the half moons into the nib....there for modifying the nib, before it leaves the factory. :rolleyes:

Half a decade ago or so, that grinding of the nibs so half moons were in the Pilots was new. Folks like PB started doing the same thing to other nibs.

 

They are as modified as the Ahab Mod, except they were modified from stock nibs in the factory.

 

Every nib ever made is modified throughout its manufacturing process. It begins the process as one shape (often a sheet) and ends as a functioning nib at the final stage after all sorts of modifications. And then some consumers make further modifications at home. Big deal. Why quibble over this?

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Every nib ever made is modified throughout its manufacturing process.

That's what I was about to say, in more or less words.

 

The half moons are as vital to the flex of the FA as the forging of a Waterman 52.

Edited by Bluey
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"""There is no such thing as an unmodified FA. Thats is the way they come with the shoulders cut out. Soft nibs are standard options from Pilot on the 74 (SF, SFM, SM) so they are not modified. Modification means taking something and changing the way they normally appear. None of these nibs are modified!""" :huh: :unsure:

 

Yes they are!

At the factory a man or a machine grinds the half moons into the nib....there for modifying the nib, before it leaves the factory. :rolleyes:

Half a decade ago or so, that grinding of the nibs so half moons were in the Pilots was new. Folks like PB started doing the same thing to other nibs.

 

They are as modified as the Ahab Mod, except they were modified from stock nibs in the factory.

 

I don't have to go try one......I can see little half moons....which is a modification of normal nibs....be that ground or stamped; the basic nib has been modified. It ... has ..... little .... half ..... moons ....in ...it!

Yes in the good ole days at the Peiikan and Waterman factory a man, woman, or machine ground down those nibs to make the ends narrower among other things, therefore, modifying the nib for added flex. So every vintage flex nib ever made was "modified" by your definition. What was the point here? Oh yes, modern soft nibs can give respectable line variation too! Many are not nails. Edited by max dog
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attachicon.gif IMG_0709.JPG

FPR Himalayan / Creaper & Bungubox Tears of Clown

I like writing samples...Very nice :D

Q: What's even better than a pen that can flex more?

A: Nice penmanship as yours to go along with it. :)

 

Nice quote. Mind if I use it too?

 

http://zobeid.zapto.org/image/pens/bock_titan.jpg

 

This is what I look for in a flex nib. I don't want to do calligraphy or exercises in how far I can split the tines. I just want something that adds a bit of character to my normal everyday handwriting—no special technique required. And I think I've got that with this Bexley 65 fitted with a Bock Titan F. Yes, I do have some vintage flex pens that will do even more, but they aren't robust and dependable in the same way that a modern pen is.

Totally agree with you there. Some nice modern nibs can have a lot of character. Nice script and wonderful shading there. And yes you can use that quote all you want as it's Shakes.

Edited by max dog
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Max, too bad we don't have a head shaking smillie.....

In the old days the nibs were stamped to it's norm...and the superflex nibs nor any other nib it's self, were ground to be narrower....the tipping was ground just like today to fit the width of the nib and they didn't waste much more expensive than gold iridium or 'iridium compounds' in grinding away lots and lots of it. I'm sure they had wider stamping for B nibs and narrower stamping for EF nibs....like they do today.

You don't think they take a EEF nib as standard and chop off enough to make it a M or a B, do you?

 

They were not as stupid as you think they were. They knew about labor costs way back in the '60's....1860's when they hired cheap women workers for the fiddly work on dip pen nibs...called pens back then. Women could be had for 50 cents a day and a man being skilled wanted more than up to the dollar a day an unskilled male worker got.

The first iridium tipping was called Diamond....in it was near as hard. They had tried ruby, but it didn't work. Iridium was mined from up to two inch deep 'mines' in Italy and Turkey. The Iridium was left over from when the asteroid that helped kill off the dinosaurs some 65 million years ago. By the teens and twenties, they had gone over to 'iridium' compounds and then to rare earths with out the still so expensive iridium.

Nib tipping was perfected in WW2 due to war time technology advances .....before that it was lumpy, and parts could fall out. So grinding of the tipping was a very skilled task.

 

 

The normal Pilot nib is "normal" in shape. Some five or so years ago, they started modifying their nibs.....having found out folks still wanted semi-flex nibs.........."soft" nibs.

 

Why wasn't that half moon used back in the day??? They wear out faster....so you only get say 3-4-5 years before metal fatigue gets the nib****.....back in the One Man, One Pen days....it took 7-8-10 years of 8 hours a day use for the tipping to wear out.....forcing you to either buy a new up to date pen or buy a new nib.

Status being what it is, one got a new pen to show off.

 

Also back then some like Sheaffer offered a life time guarantee.

Pelikan had that until just recently....but in the '30-60's Pelikan and the other German makers of "soft"/semi-flex nibs, made them with different alloys, thickness, and nib geometry.....in they had to last about a decade before the tipping wore off, so didn't make wear out early nibs. Or someone would buy a better made pen from someone else. Oddly back in the day, one wished to have more market share.

 

A nails nail, a Pelikan D nib looks much like a normal Pelikan nib....until you start climbing mountains with it, or opening up main battle or gasp...writing with it.

 

 

Max look at the regular Pilot nibs....with no half moons. The nibs with half moons are modified....and it don't matter if stamped or ground....it is a modification of the normal nib.

 

*** That was talked about here on the com when the modified Pilot nibs and other's who copied the half moons.....first come out.

In today no one uses a pen every day for years, you don't have to worry about that level of metal fatigue.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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The normal Pilot nib is "normal" in shape. Some five or so years ago, they started modifying their nibs.....having found out folks still wanted semi-flex nibs.........."soft" nibs.

I think the Japanese may have wanted soft nibs a lot further back than 5 years or so ago.

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I think the Japanese may have wanted soft nibs a lot further back than 5 years or so ago.

 

 

I agree! These nibs weren't created because of the recent fad in flex or semi flex nibs, they were made to address the need of forming the characters found in handwriting of numerous asian cultures! They have been in the U.S. for at least 10-15 years.

Edited by JakobS

FP Ink Orphanage-Is an ink not working with your pens, not the color you're looking for, is never to see the light of day again?!! If this is you, and the ink is in fine condition otherwise, don't dump it down the sink, or throw it into the trash, send it to me (payment can be negotiated), and I will provide it a nice safe home with love, and a decent meal of paper! Please PM me!<span style='color: #000080'>For Sale:</span> TBA

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I agree! These nibs weren't created because of the recent fad in flex or semi flex nibs, they were made to address the need of forming the characters found in handwriting of numerous asian cultures! They have been in the U.S. for at least 10-15 years.

Exactly. I'm not sure why Bobo thinks that writing Kanji only happened in Japan in the last 5 years or so.

Pilot soft nibs aren't even made for the overseas market, so they have nothing to do with any recent flex fad.

Edited by Bluey
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They have been in the U.S. for at least 10-15 years....Good to know....but as far as I recall it was only spoken about on the com some 5 or so years ago.......not much when I first came on the come a decade ago.

I can remember it was some 5-6 years ago, if that, that PB started offering his Angle Wings....cut out half moon nibs.

 

I mention very small printed Japanese scrips that the narrower than marked Japanese nib were made for...often recommend Japanese pens to folks who print..instead of writing cursive.

 

Cursive is more for western 'fatter' nibs, in they were designed to do cursive well....in back in the day we were made to write cursive back in B&W TV days.

 

Today many come here from printing with a ball point.

The double kugal/ball of many modern stiffer nib, lets them print like it's a ball point....the major selling point of such nibs.

 

I have admitted my hand writing had so fallen apart, I'd had to print with a ball point....defiantly major Death Grip.

I now have cursive Rooster Scratch....much better than the chicken scratch I had when I remembered cursive.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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One of the things that stopped any interest I had...and I do have a slew of German semi-flex pens, was the reports of a number of posters, that the 'soft' Pilot nibs were mushy.

 

Then I had a lot of trouble for a few years asking are they semi-flex or not....Well I don't know if those who replied even had a German or British semi-flex....getting only they were 'soft'.

I did get one answer where the poster said the 'soft' moonie nibs were semi-flex.

....

Could be years later someone might have bought a German '50's semi-flex...odder things have happened. And might know.

 

I have enough non-moonie good German & British semi & maxi-semi-flex nibs so see no reason to buy a modified nib....and it would have to be used....in I buy very few new pens.(Most new pens outside the 200 seem to be nails, though some of could be semi-nails like a 400/600.

It's not really surprising how few used Japanese pens are for sale on German Ebay.

 

I will also admit my Ahab after it was modified, is a Easy Full Flex nib. But that nib started out a hard semi-flex 'Flex' nib.

 

Are the regular non modified Pilot nibs nails?

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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As is usual, my original post turned into varied discussions re flex nibs. Fine. Made for interesting reading. But for my simple mind, a nib either flexes or it doesn't, Yes, there are degrees of flex when describing a flex nib, but if the nib does not flex, it is a rigid nib. So, let us hear more about examples of rigid nibs. My pens have rigid nibs, including both modern and vintage. I’ll bet that most pens fall lnto the rigid category. And they write much better than rollerballs. Much better. Thoughts? For example, the JoWo #6 nib is used a lot. MY feeling is that it is a rigid nib. It can be gtound to a flex, but the standard nib is a “nail”. And I still think that rigid nibs are referred to by some on this site in a derogatory manner.

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Max, too bad we don't have a head shaking smillie.....

In the old days the nibs were stamped to it's norm...and the superflex nibs nor any other nib it's self, were ground to be narrower....the tipping was ground just like today to fit the width of the nib and they didn't waste much more expensive than gold iridium or 'iridium compounds' in grinding away lots and lots of it. I'm sure they had wider stamping for B nibs and narrower stamping for EF nibs....like they do today.

You don't think they take a EEF nib as standard and chop off enough to make it a M or a B, do you?

 

They were not as stupid as you think they were. They knew about labor costs way back in the '60's....1860's when they hired cheap women workers for the fiddly work on dip pen nibs...called pens back then. Women could be had for 50 cents a day and a man being skilled wanted more than up to the dollar a day an unskilled male worker got.

The first iridium tipping was called Diamond....in it was near as hard. They had tried ruby, but it didn't work. Iridium was mined from up to two inch deep 'mines' in Italy and Turkey. The Iridium was left over from when the asteroid that helped kill off the dinosaurs some 65 million years ago. By the teens and twenties, they had gone over to 'iridium' compounds and then to rare earths with out the still so expensive iridium.

Nib tipping was perfected in WW2 due to war time technology advances .....before that it was lumpy, and parts could fall out. So grinding of the tipping was a very skilled task.

 

 

The normal Pilot nib is "normal" in shape. Some five or so years ago, they started modifying their nibs.....having found out folks still wanted semi-flex nibs.........."soft" nibs.

 

Why wasn't that half moon used back in the day??? They wear out faster....so you only get say 3-4-5 years before metal fatigue gets the nib****.....back in the One Man, One Pen days....it took 7-8-10 years of 8 hours a day use for the tipping to wear out.....forcing you to either buy a new up to date pen or buy a new nib.

Status being what it is, one got a new pen to show off.

 

Also back then some like Sheaffer offered a life time guarantee.

Pelikan had that until just recently....but in the '30-60's Pelikan and the other German makers of "soft"/semi-flex nibs, made them with different alloys, thickness, and nib geometry.....in they had to last about a decade before the tipping wore off, so didn't make wear out early nibs. Or someone would buy a better made pen from someone else. Oddly back in the day, one wished to have more market share.

 

A nails nail, a Pelikan D nib looks much like a normal Pelikan nib....until you start climbing mountains with it, or opening up main battle or gasp...writing with it.

 

 

Max look at the regular Pilot nibs....with no half moons. The nibs with half moons are modified....and it don't matter if stamped or ground....it is a modification of the normal nib.

 

*** That was talked about here on the com when the modified Pilot nibs and other's who copied the half moons.....first come out.

In today no one uses a pen every day for years, you don't have to worry about that level of metal fatigue.

Wow Bobo, these Japanese soft nibs really seem to go against your grain for some reason.

 

We seem to be debating whether the glass is half full or half empty. The FA and Soft 74 nibs are standard offerings from Pilot and are factory nibs. Because you choose to call them "modified" is your perogative, but as far as I am concerned they are standard factory produced nibs from Pilot. If a nibmeister takes a stock factory produced FA nib and adds a spencerian grind to it, then it is modified at that point for me.

 

In any event whether you choose to call it modified or not, the Japanese soft nibs and the FA in particular are great modern soft nib options for people wanting to experience some nice line variation, without having to go the vintage route. For many new users chasing vintage pens can be a bit overwhelming.

 

And time will tell if the "half moon" cutouts on the FA nib will result in any premature failure. I doubt it because the FA is pretty soft, and you are not stressing the nib much when flexing it. You will reach the limit with railroading and ink starvation way before you ever get to the point of straining the tines because the FA nib is so soft. I guess we will find out in 50 years.

Edited by max dog
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For me a nail is a completely rigid nib like the ones that you find in rOtring 600. Or the ones in Parker 51 & 61. You cannot make them flex without deforming them permanently, as in, destroying them through the use of excessive force. There are also vintage 14k manifold nibs that by their design are completely rigid.

 

Then you have a slew of nibs that have a little softness or give but which do not really change their line width even with moderate force, certain Jowo steel #6 nibs are good examples of those. I do not consider those nails and I actually love the one I have, a steel 1.1mm cursive italic. It is a great nib in the same category as the cursive italic nibs in rOtring Art Pens. Those too can not be flexed without destroying them. Period.

 

The thing is, they have their uses and I love them for what they are. Like I previously wrote, there are use cases and context for every type of a nib (even the ones which read "Iridium Point Germany", you can play faux darts with them).

Beyond those... You have a huge variety of nibs that start from the ones that have a little give and minimal line variation. So, when a nib can be manipulated with increased applied force to produce a temporary and controlled change in line width it ceases to be a rigid nib. Starting from "soft" to "springy" and all the way to the proverbial "wet noodles".

Anyway, I love them all for writing, some being more suited to certain situations and tasks than the others.

That is, except the "Iridium Point Germany" nibs. Those are only good for playing faux darts with.

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As is usual, my original post turned into varied discussions re flex nibs. Fine. Made for interesting reading. But for my simple mind, a nib either flexes or it doesn't, Yes, there are degrees of flex when describing a flex nib, but if the nib does not flex, it is a rigid nib. So, let us hear more about examples of rigid nibs. My pens have rigid nibs, including both modern and vintage. Ill bet that most pens fall lnto the rigid category. And they write much better than rollerballs. Much better. Thoughts? For example, the JoWo #6 nib is used a lot. MY feeling is that it is a rigid nib. It can be gtound to a flex, but the standard nib is a nail. And I still think that rigid nibs are referred to by some on this site in a derogatory manner.

 

My favorite rigid nibs are Esterbrook renew points 9450, 9460, 9668, 2668, and 3968. I also throughly enjoy the smooth medium triumph nibs on my Sheaffer Imperial II Deluxes, they are fantastic!

Edited by JakobS

FP Ink Orphanage-Is an ink not working with your pens, not the color you're looking for, is never to see the light of day again?!! If this is you, and the ink is in fine condition otherwise, don't dump it down the sink, or throw it into the trash, send it to me (payment can be negotiated), and I will provide it a nice safe home with love, and a decent meal of paper! Please PM me!<span style='color: #000080'>For Sale:</span> TBA

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As is usual, my original post turned into varied discussions re flex nibs. Fine. Made for interesting reading. But for my simple mind, a nib either flexes or it doesn't, Yes, there are degrees of flex when describing a flex nib, but if the nib does not flex, it is a rigid nib. So, let us hear more about examples of rigid nibs. My pens have rigid nibs, including both modern and vintage. I’ll bet that most pens fall lnto the rigid category. And they write much better than rollerballs. Much better. Thoughts? For example, the JoWo #6 nib is used a lot. MY feeling is that it is a rigid nib. It can be gtound to a flex, but the standard nib is a “nail”. And I still think that rigid nibs are referred to by some on this site in a derogatory manner.

 

Not sure what you mean by "much better" than a rollerball. Good quality rollerballs are very nice writers. Most steel nibs made today aren't that smooth, though when you go back to the 1960s they are typically smoother. I have a Sheaffer Imperial cartridge pen (later model) with a steel nib that is very smooth and reminds me of the very best rollerballs. It's a great choice for every day carry.

 

I wouldn't necessarily even call today's Jowo #6 steel nib a "nail" as such. To me the word nail implies a special category of rigidity that is noticeable as soon as you touch the page. Most steel nibs give just a little, and you can feel it. My Hero 200A—with its super-thick gold nib!—is a nail. It really does feel like putting a nail on the paper.

 

True nails, like true full-flex nibs, don't crop up every day.

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Re rollerballs. I only have one- a Montblanc from the 1980’s. But with recent refill, a Montblanc M. It writes like an F, and not very smooth as well. This is my only experience with rollerballs, and was the basis for my comment. If there are better refills to be had, I would ask for recommendations. Thanks

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Tony :thumbup: That may be the first good thing said about a roller ball I can remember reading here. I remember when they first came out.....I liked them, but I was pure BP then.

After I got into fountain pens found them overly hard.

 

Mana, those with a touch of flex...if you push, would be a semi-nail, like a P-75, or 400/600. I had my baby bottom butter smooth 605 BB turned into a 1.0 Stub by Fountainble. I'd swapped out a nice M....in I knew come the day I'd have it stubbed or made CI. Having the Lamy Persona OB that was made CI, finally chose to get it stubbed.

 

I covered why I have no interest in a Pilot....If I found one cheap enough in a flea market, I'd buy it. But I have some 26 semi-flex and 16 maxi-semi-flex nibbed pens, so have no need for one; (reputed to be mushy). I only got down on the Pilot in Max insists just because a modification of a normal nib in a factory is not a modification. Getting info comparing German semi-flex with those Pilots has been next to impossible. Outside of one post.....all answers were 'soft'. Which tells me about as much as when someone says "Flexi". :headsmack:

 

Having seen the prices in the States for a name brand vintage semi-flex can understand going with those soft Pilot pens.

 

Nails, I have a few, a steel Townsend M, that is butter smooth....under the bed in it's box. A nails, nail, the Pelikan 400 D nib in M. In I really don't care for nails, out side of dipping it, I've not used it. Nor have I plans too....will sell it eventually. Have a 51 that I've not used in years.

My most 'outstanding' nail is a '36 Parker Canadian factory BB stub, in a 39 Vac. I'll have to get around to taking a picture of the nib some year.

77uh3a5.jpg

I gave away my Safari and CPM-1 to hook someone into fountain pens.

I have a Lamy Joy 1.5, which I use when I do.....when the moon is blue, do calligraphy, in I can see my mistakes better.

 

PB modified a do nothing Lamy Persona 18K OB nail to CI for me. IMO a nail Oblique.....good for left handers or those with left eye dominance where one automatically cants the nib to see the top, in there was absolutely no line variation. I have a similar problem with regular flex in oblique, not enough line variation. I am spoiled with obliques in semi&maxi, which have very good line variation in they the vintage German '50's pens are stubs also.

 

After PB modified the Persona to CI that pen has been out and not under the bed with the Townsend, ever since. I do find nails boring....but a CI is not boring. Stubs take a characterless nib and gives it some character.

The writing is by PB, not me. More than likely a somewhat fat M, in one does lose a tad, when altering a nib.

Spring clip, have to push down on the serrated top for it to come out to clamp down on your shirt pocket. It is a large pen, made back when shirt pockets were deeper....but even so, should never fall out.

The new Imporium; made by the same designer, that came in second place....has a regular clip, and they came up with a brand new 'Springy' nib....good tine bend, like a unmodified Falcon or modern MB, and only 2 X tine tine spread......but much better. If it only spread the tines to 3 X...I would have one....come hell or high water....have choice of 4-5 pretty modern two stripe colors for the tines....that will not fit it's older brother below. :wallbash:

EIj4i9e.jpg

FWL4Clr.jpg

MAXrkr7.jpg

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Getting info comparing German semi-flex with those Pilots has been next to impossible. Outside of one post.....all answers were 'soft'. Which tells me about as much as when someone says "Flexi". :headsmack:

 

Having seen the prices in the States for a name brand vintage semi-flex can understand going with those soft Pilot pens.

 

Nails, I have a few, a steel Townsend M, that is butter smooth....under the bed in it's box.

 

So how many "nails" do you have under your bed anyways? :)

 

While I would call my Pilot 74 SFM and Falcon SF (Elabo) nibs soft, the FA would be at least semi-flex. I dont have German flex pens to compare to, except a Pelikan M200 with a customized Mottishaw M250 14K semi flex nib, but that does not flex as well as the FA (should have gone for the full flex mod on the M250 nib). I am sure vintage German pens flex much better.

 

Only comparison I have is to the vintage Waterman 52's Ideal #2 flex nib. The biggest difference between the FA and the Waterman nib is the ink flow. The Waterman is a fire hose in comparison and won't railroad. The patented Waterman "spoon" feed system is remarkable. The FA will do about 3.5X line width before it runs out of steam and railroads, and it is very finicky with the ink. Without the right ink, forget about flex theatrics. The FA tines could easily spread to 4X or more but it will have railroaded at about 3.5X.

 

With the Waterman #2 nib, while I can push it far beyond the FA's tine spread capabililty, I don't feel comfortable flexing it more than the range I flex the FA on a consistent basis. The nibs nearly 90 years old! The FA does not have as sharp of a snap back as the vintage Waterman, but it is respectable.

 

I'd provide some writing comparisons, but my Waterman is awaiting sac replacement at the moment, as it's turned to goo with some red ink I put in it.

 

fpn_1508545408__pilot_custom_912_fa_oct_

Edited by max dog
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As is usual, my original post turned into varied discussions re flex nibs. Fine. Made for interesting reading. But for my simple mind, a nib either flexes or it doesn't, Yes, there are degrees of flex when describing a flex nib, but if the nib does not flex, it is a rigid nib. So, let us hear more about examples of rigid nibs. My pens have rigid nibs, including both modern and vintage. I’ll bet that most pens fall lnto the rigid category.

I challenge you bet (with one exception). I bet most pens were made before 1970 (probably, before 1960) and most pens before 1960 which were not explicitly nominated "manifold" were at least "mushy", and a great percentage (IMHO) are at least stiffy semiflexes. The one exception is the Parker 51, which is famed as the most sold fountain pen ever, was a paradigmatic example of "nail nib" (whitout even a shadow of derogation here) and that probably can shift the statistic itself alone.

 

Heck! I just gifted my wife an early Parker 75, ciselle pattern, which comes from the mid-late sixties and, while I expected it to be nail, both by the epoch and the shape of the nib, it resulted quite flexible!

 

What it's probably true is that most post-1970 pens are nails -but post-1970 pens are almost surely a minority on the whole of fountain pens ever produced.

 

And they write much better than rollerballs. Much better. Thoughts? For example, the JoWo #6 nib is used a lot. MY feeling is that it is a rigid nib. It can be gtound to a flex, but the standard nib is a “nail”. And I still think that rigid nibs are referred to by some on this site in a derogatory manner.

I don't think so. I already stated that, i.e. the Parker 51 sports a nail nib as much as anything, and I don't think there will be many people thinking badly of that pen (I certainly don't). I do think that "nail nib" can become derogatory when it's not expected / it's thougth it shouldn't be that way. For instance, I own a 50's Pelikan 400 with an excelent semi-flex nib (if only Pelikan had made a pen the size of its current M800 back then!!!). Then you compare it with Pelikan's current offer, the M400, which looks basically the same, and yes, the first thing that comes to my mind with regards to their nibs is "but... it's a nail!!!" and, yes, in this case I say it on the most derogatory manner.

Edited by jmnav
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