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How To Fix Parker 51 Skipping And Hard Starts?

parker 51 skipping hard start repair parker 51 nib

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40 replies to this topic

#21 Venemo

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:47

also check if the hood is causing the nib slit to close. see pg 52 of the manual.

 

That's the part that describes that the hood should be tight against the nib, but not too tight, right?



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#22 hari317

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:51

 

That's the part that describes that the hood should be tight against the nib, but not too tight, right?

yes. Not too loose to allow the nib to move under the stress of writing and not too tight to shut the slit.


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#23 Venemo

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 17:32

Okay, I think I managed to improve it significantly. I noticed that the hood is indeed very tight on the nib. I tried to apply some heat but the hood didn't change. So what I did is I increased the nib slit gap a LOT, and then put it back together. As the hood presses tightly against the nib, it reduces the nib slit somewhat, but it is still wider than it was before. Now the pen is no longer dry! Ink flow is much-much better than before.

 

But now the nib has some feedback, which was caused by me messing around with it. It isn't too bad, so I decided to leave it as is for now and maybe try to fix it next time I get to a microscope.

 

This is one of those British pens in the "bood red" color (brighter red as opposed to the burgundy) with the rolled silver cap. In the meantime, I managed to remove all the tarnish from the rolled silver cap using this method (baking soda + salt + aluminium foil in hot water). It is a very nice pen now. :) Thank you all for your help!



#24 hari317

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 17:45

Good job. Now dont leave the scratchy nib. Inspect the slit walls carefully under a loupe. Is the nib troughed? Meaning are the slit walls perfectly parallel to each other? I would guess they are not and the gap is wider on the writing surface of the tip and narrower on the top. Correct this and you will have a lovely writing pen.
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#25 PAKMAN

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 17:50

Love a success story! Hope you get great joy from writing now!


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#26 Venemo

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 17:51

Good job. Now dont leave the scratchy nib. Inspect the slit walls carefully under a loupe. Is the nib troughed? Meaning are the slit walls perfectly parallel to each other? I would guess they are not and the gap is wider on the writing surface of the tip and narrower on the top. Correct this and you will have a lovely writing pen.

 

We have a microscope in the lab, so I will do this in a few days, next time I get there. (I don't have one at home, unfortunately not even a loupe).



#27 Flounder

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 00:15

Hi venemo,

This is why I suggest checking the nib-hood gap in the first instance. It helps to methodically check things in a certain order, for accurate diagnosis of the problem, and the prevention of new variables being introduced (changed tine gap at the least).

 

I think it would be better to take some photographs at this stage before taking any more action. Nothing is borked here, but you'll be chasing one change after another for a long time on the current path. It's bifurcation time!

 

Just IM, here's an overview of how I would proceed. Caps are just for clarity not for shoutiness:

 

Clean everything to rule out a blockage.

 

Bring the nib back to a conventional geometry as Hari details. Normal tine gap, good alignment of the tipping halves with one another, all independent of the rest of the pen. As a rough idea, once things look right 'write' with the nib out of the pen dry on paper. When the nib is back to original geometry, you will feel it's much smoother WITHOUT making any change with abrasives.

 

Reassemble so that the nib, feed and collector are in the pen, heat set the feed.

 

Check how the flow is with the hood OFF the 51, versus with the hood ON. If the flow is poor with the hood on, and the flow is good with the hood OFF, no other changes made, infer the issue is the hood-nib gap. If the hood makes NO difference to flow, then infer something else is the cause, such as nib tipping overpolishing, insufficient tine gap or what have you. That's when to consider nib intervention.

 

Altering the nib-hood gap to get the same flow hood on or hood off:

Here's how I would go about it.

 

Sealing the hood - rosin sealant such as Ron Zorn sells is a good alternative to shellac. Those hoods can be murder to remove if old shellac (or even not that old) has spread to the O ring. I silicone grease the O ring, and use rosin on the threads. It's a mix of rosin and castor oil, as strong or weak as you like depending on the mix.

 

The aluminium cleaning method for silver is something I'd perhaps consider for the later rolled silver 51 caps that can be fully disassembled, but bear in mind anything older will have the clutch, bushing and inner cap subjected to hot salt water.


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#28 Venemo

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:23

Flounder, yes I did all that. Or do you mean that I should repeat all of it again?

Right now the only remaining issue is a slight scratchiness of the nib which I'm going to sort out tomorrow under a microscope.

 

Thanks for your suggestion with regards to the hood. In this pen, the hood doesn't impede the flow so much as it did for the guy in the other thread. But I will see how it goes and will try your method if I feel it necessary. For now, I don't want to risk damaging the hood, unless absolutely necessary. To be sure, I won't re-seal the hood until I'm 100% sure that the pen works the way I want. :)

 

 

Sealing the hood - rosin sealant such as Ron Zorn sells is a good alternative to shellac. Those hoods can be murder to remove if old shellac (or even not that old) has spread to the O ring. I silicone grease the O ring, and use rosin on the threads. It's a mix of rosin and castor oil, as strong or weak as you like depending on the mix.

 

In fact, since the pen has an O-ring, is sealing the threads even necessary? Doesn't the O-ring provide enough of a seal?

Where do you get your rosin? Is it the "Sheaffer formula" sealant that Ron sells? He specifically says he prefers Shellac on the 51.

 

 

The aluminium cleaning method for silver is something I'd perhaps consider for the later rolled silver 51 caps that can be fully disassembled, but bear in mind anything older will have the clutch, bushing and inner cap subjected to hot salt water.

 

Yes, I was a bit worried, but the procedure only took a few minutes and it didn't go wrong. :)



#29 Flounder

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 21:57

Evening Venemo. I mean you should bring the nib geometry back to how it was when you received the pen, and *then* check the hood-nib gap. That's the way to start diagnosing the problem. Let's eliminate the guesswork!

 

It sounds like the present situation is this: The tine gap is so large that it helps mitigate the hood-nib gap being pinched by a tight hood. Is that right (photo would be useful)?

 

If so, this is a *less than ideal* situation because in compensating for (rather than solving) the potential original issue, a new one is introduced: the edges of the inner tipping slit are splayed too far open, resulting in scratchy writing.

 

In the same vein, you could now less-than-ideally compensate for the new issue by smoothing the inner edges of the nib, creating a fresh issue in the process. With the halves of the tipping ball far enough apart, and potentially far enough out of alignment with each other that a great deal of polishing is needed, voila overpolished inside edges leading to poor capillary flow.

 

...and back to square one, only now with both hood *and* nib faults! Do you follow?

 

Here's my angle on hood sealing.

I don't rely solely on the O ring seal because of the age of originals, and uncertainty over the proper fit of aftermarket replacements. There's nothing wrong with trying it if you like - and I have bought late O ring 51's with no sealant on the threads.

 

Without wanting to speak for Ron Zorn I have the impression shellac is popular with restorers as it makes more of a challenge for the curious to disassemble the pen unnecessarily and mess things up, an understandable position when they have to deal with returns.

 

I make rosin sealant, it's not too challenging, rosin melted in castor oil.


Edited by Flounder, 24 January 2018 - 21:58.

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#30 Venemo

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 19:35

Thank you Flounder for your additional explanation!

 

It sounds like the present situation is this: The tine gap is so large that it helps mitigate the hood-nib gap being pinched by a tight hood. Is that right (photo would be useful)?

 

Not exactly. Let me explain what I meant.

What I noticed is that assembling the nib + feed + collector + hood will press the nib tines together, thus mis-aligning it in the process. So I increased the gap and after assembling the pen, the gap became tighter than how I had adjusted it, but still larger than it originally was.

 

 

If so, this is a *less than ideal* situation because in compensating for (rather than solving) the potential original issue, a new one is introduced: the edges of the inner tipping slit are splayed too far open, resulting in scratchy writing.

 

I now understand your concern.

 

Today I got the chance to look at it under a microscope. Tried to make a picture, but could not capture it well. Will retry. :)

Anyway, what I saw in the microscope is that the scratchiness is not because the tines are too far apart. It is simply because they are vertically misaligned. I will need to take it apart one more time and adjust the nib under the microscope. (Actually, it is a shame that I did it without the microscope previously.)

 

 

In the same vein, you could now less-than-ideally compensate for the new issue by smoothing the inner edges of the nib, creating a fresh issue in the process. With the halves of the tipping ball far enough apart, and potentially far enough out of alignment with each other that a great deal of polishing is needed, voila overpolished inside edges leading to poor capillary flow.

 

That is a very good point. I will definitely not polish it unless absolutely necessary, and only after properly aligning the nib, assembling the pen and verifying the flow. But I suspect that if I do it correctly, polishing will not be necessary.

 

 

I make rosin sealant, it's not too challenging, rosin melted in castor oil.

 

Sounds interesting. Can you maybe share more details about how you make it? I would like to try.

 

 

(EDIT: clarified some text.)
 


Edited by Venemo, 26 January 2018 - 19:38.


#31 Flounder

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 18:24

Hi Venemo,

 


...Not exactly. Let me explain what I meant.

What I noticed is that assembling the nib + feed + collector + hood will press the nib tines together, thus mis-aligning it in the process. So I increased the gap and after assembling the pen, the gap became tighter than how I had adjusted it, but still larger than it originally was...

 

 

Without photos, it's hard to make a judgement call, but that does sound like the nib-hood gap is indeed too small, or the nib tines have been splayed upwards towards the hood during the widening efforts. Or, Murphy's law - both.

 

If you go on Richard Binder's site, there are descriptions of different types of nib alignment issues. From what you describe the scratchiness could stem from either vertical misalignment of the tines or more the challenging 'grand canyon', where they aren't vertically parallel (as Hari suggested).

 

In re: sealant, there's an abridged post on FPGeeks a good while ago I usually point to, let me see if I can find it...here. The short version's all you need really. Photobucket borked all the photos anyway!

 

I hope you get the pen working to your satisfaction soon!

 

 


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#32 siamackz

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:00

Hi Venemo,

 

 

Without photos, it's hard to make a judgement call, but that does sound like the nib-hood gap is indeed too small, or the nib tines have been splayed upwards towards the hood during the widening efforts. Or, Murphy's law - both.

 

If you go on Richard Binder's site, there are descriptions of different types of nib alignment issues. From what you describe the scratchiness could stem from either vertical misalignment of the tines or more the challenging 'grand canyon', where they aren't vertically parallel (as Hari suggested).

 

In re: sealant, there's an abridged post on FPGeeks a good while ago I usually point to, let me see if I can find it...here. The short version's all you need really. Photobucket borked all the photos anyway!

 

I hope you get the pen working to your satisfaction soon!

 

 

Thanks for sharing. About the sealant, you are proposing a rosin based sealant when on most Montblanc threads I have noticed beeswax based sealants. Is there a difference? 


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#33 Flounder

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 23:50

Thanks for sharing. About the sealant, you are proposing a rosin based sealant when on most Montblanc threads I have noticed beeswax based sealants. Is there a difference? 

 

"Bees".

 

:lol:

 

I'm not at all au fait with Montblanc sealants, the only Montblanc I've used was a ballpoint, just never been that into them.


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#34 siamackz

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 00:53

 
"Bees".
 
:lol:
 
I'm not at all au fait with Montblanc sealants, the only Montblanc I've used was a ballpoint, just never been that into them.


Watched your video, thanks for that! Ill be trying to cook up a batch of rosin based sealant soon :)

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#35 mitto

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 01:23

"Bees".
 
:lol:
 
I'm not at all au fait with Montblanc sealants, the only Montblanc I've used was a ballpoint, just never been that into them.


I watched your videos and followed the method to make my own rosin sealant. But couldnt get the right thing. No enough stickyness. I don't know what went wrong. The rosin, perhaps didn't melt in the oil or perhaps wrong combination of the rosin and oil.

Could you please provide further guidance?
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#36 Flounder

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 19:11

Hi mitto, make sure the rosin is hot enough to liquify, then mix in a little castor oil, cool, check consistency, and repeat till viscosity is loose enough to be a stringy goo at room temp. The rosin has to be hot enough to liquify before mixing in castor oil.


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#37 siamackz

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 00:41

Hi mitto, make sure the rosin is hot enough to liquify, then mix in a little castor oil, cool, check consistency, and repeat till viscosity is loose enough to be a stringy goo at room temp. The rosin has to be hot enough to liquify before mixing in castor oil.


Do you know the approximate ratio of oil to rosin? I will try using liquid paraffin instead and report back

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#38 Flounder

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 01:20

Do you know the approximate ratio of oil to rosin? I will try using liquid paraffin instead and report back

 

Will vary by rosin, so easier to judge it by the consistency at room temp. Why parafinn?


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#39 Venemo

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:55

So I managed to get back to the lab yesterday and took a few pictures of the mis-aligned nib.

As you can see, there is no problem with the gap, this is simply an issue with the tines being vertically misaligned.

 

Here is the pen, assembled:

51nib1.jpg

 

And this is just the nib, after disassembly:

51nib2.jpg

 

After disassembling it, I managed to tweak the nib so it is now aligned correctly. It is smooth now. :)



#40 siamackz

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:28

Nice, well done

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