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Is This Swan Nib Damaged?


32 replies to this topic

#21 MarcShiman

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 14:27

This might be a useful reference

 

http://www.richardsp...tp/waverley.htm



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#22 Cob

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 17:51

Nothing wrong with that nib at all. Some were made like that.  I can't tell you much about it. I think Cob had info in a post a while back.

 

model L4XX/60

L for leverless

4 for the nib size

XX for the band pattern, which I can't identify at the moment

60 representing black.

 

Assuming it came with a section and feed, it is a lovely pen!

 

Addend:

 

Cob:

Why 1060 and not L4XX/60?

It matches the lizard leverless, except the banding, and those have the older designation. Or perhaps the banding is the answer, showing it to be later 1060 numbering??

Yes it could be a L445/60, but in that case it would almost certainly have carried a model number and since the original poster asked which model it is I assume it hasn't.  The change from L212.60. L445/60 and L645 /60 to 0160/1060/2060 I think came in 1939/40, why I don't know.  I have a L645/60 (albeit with Onoto 4 nib in place of the Swan 6) it is identical to a 2060!  However after the factory was destroyed by bombing in 1940 I suspect that unnumbered pens may have been produced in the replacement factory.  Pens were of course produced during the war, but manufacturers were restricted partly by shortages of materials and also by Government regulation which limited the number of models each maker could produce.

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#23 Greenie

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 18:58

Thanks Cob!  Great answer.  I do have to admit that the banding pattern is not one I have seen on the L4XX numbering, so the later 4 digit is much more likely to be correct.

 

And now, for a public service announcement:

 

I have a TERRIBLE habit here of keeping my brain stuck on pre-war MT pens, since I arbitrarily collect MT pens only up to that time. It is totally a wrong way to think, but here is my admission for all to see.  I can't promise to correct my annoying habit.

 

And based on this, I tend to lump together the US and English pens, which I know drives Marc a bit batty. But there is so much overlap pre 1940!

 

Well, there is my FPN confession! 



#24 steven r

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 20:18

Thanks Cob!  Great answer.  I do have to admit that the banding pattern is not one I have seen on the L4XX numbering, so the later 4 digit is much more likely to be correct.

 

And now, for a public service announcement:

 

I have a TERRIBLE habit here of keeping my brain stuck on pre-war MT pens, since I arbitrarily collect MT pens only up to that time. It is totally a wrong way to think, but here is my admission for all to see.  I can't promise to correct my annoying habit.

 

And based on this, I tend to lump together the US and English pens, which I know drives Marc a bit batty. But there is so much overlap pre 1940!

 

Well, there is my FPN confession! 

Thank you Cobb and Greenie, both of you obviously know your stuff and thanks for your time, do either of you know what this type of nib is called? as for the model.. after a couple of days researching internet images there has not been one with the same imprint, bands, nib etc, but i will continue, stay discussing and remain friends, i am certain two great minds will come up with the answers,       



#25 steven r

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 20:55

IMG_0130.JPG IMG_0132.JPG IMG_0141.JPG

Nothing wrong with that nib at all. Some were made like that.  I can't tell you much about it. I think Cob had info in a post a while back.

 

model L4XX/60

L for leverless

4 for the nib size

XX for the band pattern, which I can't identify at the moment

60 representing black.

 

Assuming it came with a section and feed, it is a lovely pen!

 

Addend:

 

Cob:

Why 1060 and not L4XX/60?

It matches the lizard leverless, except the banding, and those have the older designation. Or perhaps the banding is the answer, showing it to be later 1060 numbering??

Hi Greenie, would a couple more photos help? Barrel imprint, section with Swan, cap with Swan near the top and swan on the base of the feed, nothing else, hope these help, thank you.



#26 steven r

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 21:04

The flexibility of the O.F.C nib:


https://drive.google...ew?usp=drivesdk

 

I have such nibs and I wouldn't say these didn't leave the factory like that. In fact I have an Osmia Faber Castel currently inked with the same shape nib. Kind of spoon tip. And the nib is full flex.

Here is the nib:

https://drive.google...ew?usp=drivesdk

Another monstrous one. This one is parker, though. Made in Canada:

https://drive.google...ew?usp=drivesdk

Excellent response and thank you for the links, your help is very appreciated so that i know it is not damaged, manufacture design, YES,   



#27 steven r

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 21:07

Not a clue. Have you tried asking in the Mabie Todd forum?

After your reply i did and got lots off info on this, greatly appreciated. I am sorry but did not realize that there was a separate section, thank you    



#28 Ron Z

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 21:33

The topic with the same pictures was posted in two different forums.  I've merged them into one in the forum that has had the most views and responses.


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#29 Cob

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 03:06

Aha! I was wrong: that is not a 1060.  A 1060 has three equal-sized bands. otherwise your pen resembles a 1060 in every respect.  Here's one:

 

fpn_1516071625__7.jpg

 

It is frustrating that so often Mabie Todd did not stamp model numbers on the pens.  Your pen certainly dates from the late 1930s., the clip mounting tells me that  The band pattern was used on the big L645/60 (No 6 nib) so yours might be a L445/60 after all or another possibility might be L412/60. I have a L312/60 but this has a No 3 nib and worse no cap!

 

To make  things more baffling, MT did produce a considerable number of non-standard models.  I haven't a picture of a L442/60, but here's a snap showing my L442E/66 - happily not fitted with an Eternal nib, (top of picture).  You will see that the cap has four bands in total:

 

fpn_1509879753__l442e_66__sm205_63_2.jpg

 

Earlier Leverless pens (like my 442) had the model number stamped on the end of the twist knob; your pen is probably too late for this.

 

Quite apart from their elegance and quality, Swan pens provide plenty of discussion opportunities!

 

Cob


Edited by Cob, 16 January 2018 - 03:08.

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#30 MarcShiman

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:21

I might have mentioned this before - but the ruckus over consistency in model numbers baffles me some. These numbers were used to control Mabie Todd's inventory, they weren't model numbers like the Apple Iphone 8. That they weren't consistent over the years wasn't really important to them, and why should it be?

 

Perhaps frustrating is that they didn't have model names - Parker Duofold jr. for example. Customers didn't stand around the watercooler saying "I just picked up a SM 205/63"

 

well, I guess that's what collecting is all about.



#31 Greenie

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 15:00

I might have mentioned this before - but the ruckus over consistency in model numbers baffles me some. These numbers were used to control Mabie Todd's inventory, they weren't model numbers like the Apple Iphone 8. That they weren't consistent over the years wasn't really important to them, and why should it be?

 

Perhaps frustrating is that they didn't have model names - Parker Duofold jr. for example. Customers didn't stand around the watercooler saying "I just picked up a SM 205/63"

 

well, I guess that's what collecting is all about.

 

Collecting is pretty funny. Some of us get excited about a different clip, or a slight variation in a cap band, or focus on catalog vs off catalog items, or filling systems....  :)

There is something esoteric for each of us to focus on! That IS a big part of the fun.



#32 Cob

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 17:18

But the 1920s Swan advertisements showing the various shapes and colours available did include model numbers didn't they?  I could imagine a customer entering a shop with an advertisement and pointing e.g. to a 242/52 and saying "have you one of these in stock for me to try?"

 

Like Greenie, I find the model numbers of Mabie Todds an endless source of fascination; rather nerdy I'm afraid.

 

And Parker cannot boast: there are loads of Parkers with no information on them.  Conway Stewart's (non) system was completely illogical - to the point of being barking mad.  Waterman's did try from time to time, although saying that I have here what I believe to be a 100-year pen.  Does it say "100 year" on it?  no it doesn't!

 

And I have just acquired an auction lot including some Sheaffers.  One lovely pen (with no tips to its nib) a very pretty lever filler has a white dot on its cap and apart from "W A Sheaffer Fort Madison &c" no indication what model it is.

 

Rgds

 

Cob


Edited by Cob, 16 January 2018 - 17:21.

fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg


#33 Cob

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 22:20

Here's another Swan with the "Waverley" tip

 

fpn_1516728955__2.jpg

 

Cob


fpn_1428963683__6s.jpg “The pen of the British Empire” fpn_1423349537__swan_sign_is.jpg




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