Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies






Photo

Aurora 88 Flex Nib


  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#1 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 03 January 2018 - 19:48

I went all out for the new Aurora 88 Flex Nib because I love Spencerian writing, but for the life of me I can't get the flex out of this pen that I see on YouTube videos.  I'm using Caren D'Ache Ultra Violet ink.  What am I doing wrong?  How do I get this expensive nib to work like I believe it is supposed to?



Sponsored Content

#2 Uncial

Uncial

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,321 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 04 January 2018 - 10:20

Pixie dust and a hand moulded from cast iron might do it.

 

To be honest, I have not tried these nibs, but I have seen plenty of written reviews complaining that the flexibility of the nibs has been grossly overstated. A lot of modern 'flexible' nibs are shown on Youtube and the like doing wonderful things by very skilled hands and by writers who apply far more pressure than I would ever be comfortable using on any nib. It's worth bearing in mind too that what you see in an extreme close up against the nib and paper in a video is not what you will see when you write in a normal position in real life. The 'flexibility' can therefore appear exaggerated. 

 

If you're chasing flex, find a cheap dip pen and a couple of very cheap and truly flexible nibs. If you can't write well with that you will likely never write beautifully with a vintage or modern (and there are very few modern nibs that do this that aren't modified in some way) flexible nib. It's your hand, skill and technique that produces the line; the pen doesn't do that for you.



#3 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 04 January 2018 - 16:55

Sadly, I have always been bereft of pixie dust , and my hands are moulded from flesh with a touch of arthritis.  

 

I was afraid that what  you said was the truth of the matter, so I suppose I will have to either make my peace with this as a standard fountain pen, or sell it.   I do have a dip pen and some proper Spencerian and Copperplate nibs, but I was chasing the dream of avoiding the dipping and dripping.   Ah well, some things have to be worked harder for, and nothing worth doing was ever easy.  

 

Thank you for your insight into the illusions of filmed penmanship.  



#4 teeitup418holes

teeitup418holes

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 375 posts

Posted 06 January 2018 - 21:53

I have this pen and while it’s not a vintage flex, I think it’s a great modern flex. This may or may not be accurate, but it even feels like it’s softened up. It could be that I’m getting a better feel for it, and what the nib can do.

I have several modern soft/flex nibs and the Aurora flex is near the top of the performers. It doesn’t top the Wahl Eversharp Decoband with the SuperFlex nib, but I absolutely love my Aurora Flex. I got mine from the Nibsmith, and had him reduce the width just a little bit. I think a reduced width shows more line variation, which could give the illusion that the pen is more flexible than it really is.

My modern flex pens include: Wahl Eversharp Decoband with SuperFlex, Aurora 88 Flex Fine, Pilot Custom 823 with #15 Falcon Nib, Platinum #3776 Soft Fine with Added Flex by Mottishaw.

I’m just a novice with the modern flex, but I have come to love my Aurora 88 Flex! Don’t give up yet with your Aurora. You might find that it really is a good example of a modern flex. (And if you don’t, I’ll find a good place for it).

#5 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 07 January 2018 - 00:57

Thanks for taking the time to offer encouragement.  :)  I have been trying to work with it, starting with using a larger grid than usual for my Spencerian writing.  it is quite a broad nib for  such an endeavour, and I also find that it is quite "wet", so my usual writing size becomes more like a blob or a doodle than actual writing.  I wish that I had thought to have it slimmed down, as you did, but until I used it, I didn't realize that it would probably have been a good idea.  It seems much better in a larger script, and it is certainly a lovely pen to hold and to use.  I'll watch for increasing flexibility.

 

My most flexy modern pen is my Pilot Custom 742 FA, which I love.  I did have a Pilot Metal Falcon with the John Mottishaw Spencerian modification, but sadly one day when I was filling it, it slipped down in my left hand while I was pushing down on the converter with my right hand and hit the bottom of the ink bottle and bent the nib back.  :crybaby:  I sent it back to John who saved the pen, but he had to remove so much damage that there is virtually no flex left.

 

I would love to find a Wahl Eversharp Decoband with the SuperFlex nib.  I have a Wahl desk set that I lucked upon in an auction and had it cleaned and re-saced by a brilliant FPN regular, and it has the adjustable nib, which can be very flexible.  I find that it is also quite a "wet" writer, and I'm still trying to find the best ink to use in it in order to tame it somewhat for smaller writing.   I also have a 1938 garnet lizard Swan with a fine flex nib, that is in mint condition that I might sell, because although I absolutely love the pen and the look of it, for some reason I just don't seem to write well with it.  Pens seems to be a lot like people that way, there my be absolutely nothing wrong with someone but for some reason it just doesn't work out.  My Sailor 1911 Pro Gear Realo is like that.  I think it is possibly the nicest pen I have ever used in many respects (love that ink window!) but for some reason I just scribble with it, even after 7 years.  I should sent it off to John for italic tweaking, but that takes so long and is expensive from Canada.  Maybe someday one will come up for sale that is already tweaked. 

 

Probably the flex pen that I have the most success with is the vintage Waterman 52 with a wet noodle nib that I bought years ago from Maurizio.   The last few years have been really busy, but this winter I'm settling in to re-evaluate which pens I want to concentrate my efforts on, and which ones to sell, as my investment is a bit heavy.  In case you might be interested in any purchasing or trading of these that I decide to let go of, I'll be working with:

 

1. a 1920s Canadian Waterman 52m black hard rubber with a chased wave pattern, and a side lever with the IDEAL globe emblem.  It has a gold nib in pristine condition.

2. A Wahl Eversharp ring top pencil and pen set with a Greek key design, gold plated. 

3. A Mabie Todd (USA) Swan full size gold filled, wavy line pattern, with fully flexible nib in excellent condition (initials engraved on side), restored by Peyton Pens.

4. A Swan Leverless twist-fill pen in wine/silver/bronze pearl, and gold filled trim  and fine flexible nib, near mint.

5. A Wahl Eversharp 1922 with black chased hard rubber finish and Greek key design, gold trim, rollerball clip, and a Fine Flexible Nib with imprint. 

 

I didn't realize that John added flex to a Platinum #3776.  I have two that I really like.  I also have a Platinum 3776 Maki-e pen with a medium soft 18K nib that is two broad for me (without being an italic), and I think I'll sell that, although it is soooo beautiful.

 

I'll keep checking out the Aurora, and if I get some measurable flex going, I'll scan it and post it to you.  If not, maybe I'll give up. 

 

I'm back - I'll try to add the scan.  Here goes -

 

JPEG164 copy.jpg


Edited by Gracie, 07 January 2018 - 01:15.


#6 Strelnikoff

Strelnikoff

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 22 January 2018 - 21:57

It's been two weeks or more since this post - but it's still January so it's still considered "fresh" :)

 

There are many things said and written about Aurora 88 Aniversario (with flexible 14K nib) here on FPN and elsewhere online. Also - there are, by now, many YouTube videos with reviews. General consensus was - at the end of 2017 and several pen (colors) iterations release - Aurora 88 Aniversario flexible nib is at the best - semi-flexible in terms of vintage flex.

 

However, I beg to differ for few reasons. Even vintage flex nibs came with various flexibility and there was never a quantified definition regarding the amount of flexibility. You could get rigid, semi-flex and flexible Waterman's 52 for an example - and it was up to a buyer to try it in the store and see how much flex there is/was. Later on, Wahl and Waterman's introduced pens and nibs with clearly defined design of the nib - whether it was Personal Point by Wahl or Color Coded #5 and #7 by Waterman's.

 

My point is - in 2017 it was too early to judge Aurora's nibs by their flexibility. As with vintage nibs, so it is with modern recreation of flexible nibs - flexibility varies. It could be due to the different plate thickness (one from which nib is stamped out), it could be due to the slight alloy variation, or how it was cut.

 

I own three (3) Aurora 88 Aniversario pens with flexible nibs (and few other Auroras, and vintage flex pens and nibs). So far I can say following:

 

- Each one of my Aurora 88's nibs has a different flexibility.

 

         Red pen: nib is semi-flex and it is noticeably stiffer than anything I'd call flexible;

         Blue pen: nib is flexible, but it is slightly less flexible than flexible vintage nib;

         Orange pen: most flexible and softest of them all - I would definitively call this nib flexible to fully flexible in vintage sense.

 

- I've tried many Aurora 88's Aniversario, some orange pens had stiff(er) nibs, some brown had soft flexible nibs, some yellow had in-between nibs - and so on. There was no "this batch or color of pens has more flexible nibs than the other one". Basically - you must try it before you buy it.

 

- My oldest pen is Aurora blue - and I have been writing with this pen the longest. I have noticed it has got somewhat looser i.e. more elastic, more flexible than in the beginning. Same goes for my orange pen (I got that one last) but this one was already flexible. My red pen has a nib which - although I am writing with it regularly - I doubt it will ever open up. It is stiffer than other nibs, and that's it.

 

- The tip on Aurora 88 Aniversario flexible nib is marked as F (fine). This is not true vintage fine, and it is more like a juicy medium. It is worth noting also that Aurora shaped the tip to be vintage (kind of) - and most of the vintage nibs today had lost a lot of the tipping material, so the experience cannot be the same.

 

- A friend of mine who is a nib grinder - bought exactly the same orange pen and nib - and worked the nib to narrow it's tip to what I would call EF. Not a hairline but narrower than original nib width. This has improved line variation considerably, and now his pen writes in true spencerian sense. I may do the same, but I already have several spencerian nibs, so I'm not in a hurry.

 

- When I first got this pen (blue) I was excited about "vintage but modern flex" and got disappointed with it's performance. But - I got used to the nib, and today with three different flexibilities - I quite enjoy stiffer nib for everyday writing. It gives just enough line variation to make line interesting, but it is useful in day to day fast writing.

 

- When I watched videos on youtube, I had the same feeling - those pens/nibs write amazing, yet mine is nowhere near that flexibility. Then I have made few videos to try, and noticed that close-up of the nib while writing, gives perhaps false idea that nib is insanely flexible.

 

- All three of my pens - when I bought them - were railroading like crazy. The ink could not keep up with writing. Even when minimally flexed. That was truly disappointing. Well, my nibgrinder friend has discovered that Aurora has used their ordinary ebonite feed which was designed for pens with rigid nibs. Flexible nibs require wide ink channel. Then he basically grinded out little hump in the channel and since then - I don't have any issues with railroading. EXCEPT - when I use very dry and viscous inks. 

 

- Ink choice - I am using Iroshizuku inks (Yama Budo, Ku Jaku, Kon Peki, Momiji, Syo Ro... etc.) to ensure I maximize on the ink flow. I am using also Caran d'Ache Vibrant Pink and few Pelikan Edelstein's as well as Montblanc LE inks (and Noodler's Habanero, Cayene, Ottoman Rose... etc).

 

- Paper - Rhodia 90 gram paper is great, Tomoe River (Nanami) paper too... this is one more element to maximize pen/nib performance.

 

 

You - it seems - may have got a stiffer nib. I would give it a time, keep using it few months and it may open up a bit.

More you write with it - more it will become elastic. Naturally - there are limits. If the nib is stiff(er) don't push it more than it allows you to. Dip nibs sometimes require extra pressure because of the material (elastic steel).

And perhaps send it to nibgrinder to narrow the tip to extra fine (or extra-extra-fine).

Another suggestion could be - if you have bought the nib in the store, they may be willing to let you try other nibs and see if there is some flexier one - and exchange. Their nib unites are easy to remove and change.

However, if you did got stiffer nib - it may not open up to the extent you would require for expressive spencerian or copperplate writing - even with grinded down tip. Regardless, it will still be nice in comparison to other conventional rigid nibs. Give it some time.

 

I love my Aurora's - and I use them on a daily basis. 



#7 Strelnikoff

Strelnikoff

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 22 January 2018 - 22:50

Thanks for taking the time to offer encouragement.  :)  I have been trying to work with it, starting with using a larger grid than usual for my Spencerian writing.  it is quite a broad nib for  such an endeavour, and I also find that it is quite "wet", so my usual writing size becomes more like a blob or a doodle than actual writing.  I wish that I had thought to have it slimmed down, as you did, but until I used it, I didn't realize that it would probably have been a good idea.  It seems much better in a larger script, and it is certainly a lovely pen to hold and to use.  I'll watch for increasing flexibility.

 

My most flexy modern pen is my Pilot Custom 742 FA, which I love.  I did have a Pilot Metal Falcon with the John Mottishaw Spencerian modification, but sadly one day when I was filling it, it slipped down in my left hand while I was pushing down on the converter with my right hand and hit the bottom of the ink bottle and bent the nib back.  :crybaby:  I sent it back to John who saved the pen, but he had to remove so much damage that there is virtually no flex left.

 

I would love to find a Wahl Eversharp Decoband with the SuperFlex nib.  I have a Wahl desk set that I lucked upon in an auction and had it cleaned and re-saced by a brilliant FPN regular, and it has the adjustable nib, which can be very flexible.  I find that it is also quite a "wet" writer, and I'm still trying to find the best ink to use in it in order to tame it somewhat for smaller writing.   I also have a 1938 garnet lizard Swan with a fine flex nib, that is in mint condition that I might sell, because although I absolutely love the pen and the look of it, for some reason I just don't seem to write well with it.  Pens seems to be a lot like people that way, there my be absolutely nothing wrong with someone but for some reason it just doesn't work out.  My Sailor 1911 Pro Gear Realo is like that.  I think it is possibly the nicest pen I have ever used in many respects (love that ink window!) but for some reason I just scribble with it, even after 7 years.  I should sent it off to John for italic tweaking, but that takes so long and is expensive from Canada.  Maybe someday one will come up for sale that is already tweaked. 

 

Probably the flex pen that I have the most success with is the vintage Waterman 52 with a wet noodle nib that I bought years ago from Maurizio.   The last few years have been really busy, but this winter I'm settling in to re-evaluate which pens I want to concentrate my efforts on, and which ones to sell, as my investment is a bit heavy.  In case you might be interested in any purchasing or trading of these that I decide to let go of, I'll be working with:

 

1. a 1920s Canadian Waterman 52m black hard rubber with a chased wave pattern, and a side lever with the IDEAL globe emblem.  It has a gold nib in pristine condition.

2. A Wahl Eversharp ring top pencil and pen set with a Greek key design, gold plated. 

3. A Mabie Todd (USA) Swan full size gold filled, wavy line pattern, with fully flexible nib in excellent condition (initials engraved on side), restored by Peyton Pens.

4. A Swan Leverless twist-fill pen in wine/silver/bronze pearl, and gold filled trim  and fine flexible nib, near mint.

5. A Wahl Eversharp 1922 with black chased hard rubber finish and Greek key design, gold trim, rollerball clip, and a Fine Flexible Nib with imprint. 

 

I didn't realize that John added flex to a Platinum #3776.  I have two that I really like.  I also have a Platinum 3776 Maki-e pen with a medium soft 18K nib that is two broad for me (without being an italic), and I think I'll sell that, although it is soooo beautiful.

 

I'll keep checking out the Aurora, and if I get some measurable flex going, I'll scan it and post it to you.  If not, maybe I'll give up. 

 

I'm back - I'll try to add the scan.  Here goes -

 

attachicon.gif JPEG164 copy.jpgattachicon.gif JPEG164 copy.jpg

 

New Wahl Eversharp Decoband with Superflex nibs are relatively easy to find. I have ordered one through my local pen shop, and even met the men behind the brand - he gave a presentation.

Few of my friends have that pen.

 

At the end - I have backed off from buying it, after months of trying (my friends pens) and thinking.

 

On one side it is a great looking pen, in any finish. I was in between rosewood ebonite, blue and black/silver trim options.

But "superflex" is not really super-flex in vintage terms. Nib tip is too modern and I didn't wanted to have it cut down - it is not that readily available nor a cheap nib. And that laser etching was kind of annoying.

Mostly I decided against buying it - because for such a large pen, although it seems solid, there are few parts that are too thin for my taste (if taken apart they can be easily damaged) and my friends had issues with that. Also - superflex nib... it is a nice nib, a fresh input in current market, but it was not THAT impressive.

 

So for 800 or so USD (LE's are 1100 or more) I could get new Aurora Optima with Flexible nib (this year Aurora is introducing new series of pens with flexible nibs), or invest in some good vintage (or two) pens.



#8 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 26 January 2018 - 20:38

It's been two weeks or more since this post - but it's still January so it's still considered "fresh" :)

 

There are many things said and written about Aurora 88 Aniversario (with flexible 14K nib) here on FPN and elsewhere online. Also - there are, by now, many YouTube videos with reviews. General consensus was - at the end of 2017 and several pen (colors) iterations release - Aurora 88 Aniversario flexible nib is at the best - semi-flexible in terms of vintage flex.

 

However, I beg to differ for few reasons. Even vintage flex nibs came with various flexibility and there was never a quantified definition regarding the amount of flexibility. You could get rigid, semi-flex and flexible Waterman's 52 for an example - and it was up to a buyer to try it in the store and see how much flex there is/was. Later on, Wahl and Waterman's introduced pens and nibs with clearly defined design of the nib - whether it was Personal Point by Wahl or Color Coded #5 and #7 by Waterman's.

 

My point is - in 2017 it was too early to judge Aurora's nibs by their flexibility. As with vintage nibs, so it is with modern recreation of flexible nibs - flexibility varies. It could be due to the different plate thickness (one from which nib is stamped out), it could be due to the slight alloy variation, or how it was cut.

 

I own three (3) Aurora 88 Aniversario pens with flexible nibs (and few other Auroras, and vintage flex pens and nibs). So far I can say following:

 

- Each one of my Aurora 88's nibs has a different flexibility.

 

         Red pen: nib is semi-flex and it is noticeably stiffer than anything I'd call flexible;

         Blue pen: nib is flexible, but it is slightly less flexible than flexible vintage nib;

         Orange pen: most flexible and softest of them all - I would definitively call this nib flexible to fully flexible in vintage sense.

 

- I've tried many Aurora 88's Aniversario, some orange pens had stiff(er) nibs, some brown had soft flexible nibs, some yellow had in-between nibs - and so on. There was no "this batch or color of pens has more flexible nibs than the other one". Basically - you must try it before you buy it.

 

- My oldest pen is Aurora blue - and I have been writing with this pen the longest. I have noticed it has got somewhat looser i.e. more elastic, more flexible than in the beginning. Same goes for my orange pen (I got that one last) but this one was already flexible. My red pen has a nib which - although I am writing with it regularly - I doubt it will ever open up. It is stiffer than other nibs, and that's it.

 

- The tip on Aurora 88 Aniversario flexible nib is marked as F (fine). This is not true vintage fine, and it is more like a juicy medium. It is worth noting also that Aurora shaped the tip to be vintage (kind of) - and most of the vintage nibs today had lost a lot of the tipping material, so the experience cannot be the same.

 

- A friend of mine who is a nib grinder - bought exactly the same orange pen and nib - and worked the nib to narrow it's tip to what I would call EF. Not a hairline but narrower than original nib width. This has improved line variation considerably, and now his pen writes in true spencerian sense. I may do the same, but I already have several spencerian nibs, so I'm not in a hurry.

 

- When I first got this pen (blue) I was excited about "vintage but modern flex" and got disappointed with it's performance. But - I got used to the nib, and today with three different flexibilities - I quite enjoy stiffer nib for everyday writing. It gives just enough line variation to make line interesting, but it is useful in day to day fast writing.

 

- When I watched videos on youtube, I had the same feeling - those pens/nibs write amazing, yet mine is nowhere near that flexibility. Then I have made few videos to try, and noticed that close-up of the nib while writing, gives perhaps false idea that nib is insanely flexible.

 

- All three of my pens - when I bought them - were railroading like crazy. The ink could not keep up with writing. Even when minimally flexed. That was truly disappointing. Well, my nibgrinder friend has discovered that Aurora has used their ordinary ebonite feed which was designed for pens with rigid nibs. Flexible nibs require wide ink channel. Then he basically grinded out little hump in the channel and since then - I don't have any issues with railroading. EXCEPT - when I use very dry and viscous inks. 

 

- Ink choice - I am using Iroshizuku inks (Yama Budo, Ku Jaku, Kon Peki, Momiji, Syo Ro... etc.) to ensure I maximize on the ink flow. I am using also Caran d'Ache Vibrant Pink and few Pelikan Edelstein's as well as Montblanc LE inks (and Noodler's Habanero, Cayene, Ottoman Rose... etc).

 

- Paper - Rhodia 90 gram paper is great, Tomoe River (Nanami) paper too... this is one more element to maximize pen/nib performance.

 

 

You - it seems - may have got a stiffer nib. I would give it a time, keep using it few months and it may open up a bit.

More you write with it - more it will become elastic. Naturally - there are limits. If the nib is stiff(er) don't push it more than it allows you to. Dip nibs sometimes require extra pressure because of the material (elastic steel).

And perhaps send it to nibgrinder to narrow the tip to extra fine (or extra-extra-fine).

Another suggestion could be - if you have bought the nib in the store, they may be willing to let you try other nibs and see if there is some flexier one - and exchange. Their nib unites are easy to remove and change.

However, if you did got stiffer nib - it may not open up to the extent you would require for expressive spencerian or copperplate writing - even with grinded down tip. Regardless, it will still be nice in comparison to other conventional rigid nibs. Give it some time.

 

I love my Aurora's - and I use them on a daily basis. 

Thanks SO much for this long informative reply!  Re. the above quote - I haven't had any problems with railroading, but that could be because I'm hesitant to push the nib too hard, as you can see from the writing sample.  I have the red model, and have been using it as a daily journal writer as a means of getting used to it and its response to different papers.  Usually I'm using Rhodia paper.  I've never found a source of Tomoe River, although I see it mentioned often in the forums.  I've only had Caren D'Ache ink in the pen so far, afraid that Iroshizuku (my usual favourite ink) might make it too wet to get a fine line in contrast.  When I re-ink I'll try some.  I got mine from nibs.com, so I couldn't just try out the options. 

 

It's interesting that the nibs have so much variation in their stock production. Is that generally true of Aurora pens?  I have an Ipsilon that I like very much, but it is hard to start, even after pausing mid-sentence, rather like my Parker Sonnet that I never use for that reason.  I also have an Aurora Optima that I bought used from nibs.com, and it has no problems whatsoever and I love it.

 

It must have been fascinating to meet the men behind the Wahl brand and hear the presentation.  I have a Wahl 1922 lever-fill pen with flex and in a Greek key design on the black rubber (#5 in  my list above).  It is lovely to use, although it can be a bit "wet" with certain inks.  I also have a Wahl Oxford pencil that belonged to my dad and I think is a match to this pen:

 

http://www.fountainp...oxford-section/

 

It was so dirty when I found it (my dad was a machinest) that I almost threw it out, but happened to glance a flash of colour through the dirt and set to work on it.  It is now completely gorgeous, with  gold trim and beautiful colouring.  I would like to find the matching pen.



#9 WmEdwards

WmEdwards

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Location:Biloxi/Pascagoula MS, USA
  • Flag:

Posted 29 January 2018 - 21:06

I have the "yellow" Aurora 88 "flex."  Simply stated, it does not flex to any discernible level.  Certainly not as much as my Omas Ogiva Extra Flessible (which does flex but not "much").  Lesson learned. 


...So much ink, so little penmanship....

#10 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 29 January 2018 - 21:28

I would love to try an Omas Ogiva Extra Flessible, but I've never found one I can afford.  I thought that they were actually supposed to be "extra flexible"....

 

I have a few vintage pens that are very flexible, but for me the small end of the flexible is too large, running from a medium to a double or triple broad.   I would like to find one that goes from extra fine to broad.  Is there such a thing as a fountain pen that equals a dip pen nib in that way?



#11 gerigo

gerigo

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 807 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Flag:

Posted 30 January 2018 - 17:50

Gracie, I am so sorry you have been taken with the marketing swirl around flexi-nibs. Based on your written sample it seems like you're truly searching for nibs to help you in your craft. Rather than the vast majority who buy these simply to swiggle "s" all day. Really don't understand it this irrational desire, but if it sells pens and helps these companies stay in business, it's awesome. 

 

I have been collecting for close to 6 years now. When I first started, I was also really taken also by the promise of flex and all the wonderful videos by different people online espousing flexi-nibs. I have been lucky enough to acquire quite a few very nice vintage flex, and all the available modern flex nibs. At the same time, I have improved my handwriting to be able to decently pull off Spencerian.

 

This is what I have learned after spending all this money.

 

Today if you TRULY want a performance based flex nib that can mimick Spencerian, there are only 2 options. John Mottishaw's spencerian modified Pilot Elabo, or Indy pen Dance flex modification. There are NO other factory made flex that can pull off Spencerian. All of them are too stiff and their points not fine enough.

 

There are very obvious reasons why.

 

1. Very few in the FP community have the hand control to write Spencerian. And if you do, you'd really want to use dip nibs with an oblique holder. Within the demographic of actual Spencerian practitioners, finding someone who actually will spend the 1k to get the Wahl Eversharp will be very low.

 

2. The people who will actually spend the money use flex as simply instruments to enjoy the flexing action, because if you have tried to actually use the Mottishaw modified nibs, you quickly understand it's a highly specialized tool and can't be used everyday.

 

3. For the people who are either too crazy or don't care and actually use Mottishaw's modified nibs, it's quite comical to read how they blame John for over working on the nib because they can't use it for everyday writing because the point catches on paper.

 

I have the Aurora flex nib. I bought because it's soft and I find the nib design beautiful. NOT because it's flex, because it's comically stiff. I have tried the Wahl Everysharp too. It's a FAT medium that's too wet and gushy to even be used for writing Spencerian. I have also tried the new Montegrappa. Same story, too thick of a line and required too much pressure. My wrist will tire if I tried to write more than one sentence in Spencerian.

 

At the end of the day, if you TRULY want a fountain pen capable of Spencerian, the Pilot Elabo with John's modification is the way to go. Bite the bullet, spend the money and enjoy some truly amazing results.


Edited by gerigo, 30 January 2018 - 17:52.


#12 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 01 February 2018 - 02:02

Thank you, Gerigo, for all that information, which I guarantee I will take seriously.   However, I don't know what is meant by "Indy pen Dance flex modification."   Very curious name  :unsure:

 

I don't see the "Elabo" on nibs.com.   Is there something I'm missing?  :blush:



#13 Driften

Driften

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,357 posts
  • Location:Issaquah, WA
  • Flag:

Posted 03 February 2018 - 00:55

Thank you, Gerigo, for all that information, which I guarantee I will take seriously.   However, I don't know what is meant by "Indy pen Dance flex modification."   Very curious name  :unsure:

 

I don't see the "Elabo" on nibs.com.   Is there something I'm missing?  :blush:

 

 

indy-pen-dance.com is a company doing internet sales that Linda Kennedy and her husband run and do nib work. They were trained by Richard Binder. The flex modification runs about $100 from them on a gold nib.


Edited by Driften, 03 February 2018 - 00:56.


#14 gerigo

gerigo

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 807 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Flag:

Posted 03 February 2018 - 20:57

Sorry Elabo is the Pilot Falcon's Japanese name. It's  to separate it from the customs with the FA nib.

 

Thank you, Gerigo, for all that information, which I guarantee I will take seriously.   However, I don't know what is meant by "Indy pen Dance flex modification."   Very curious name  :unsure:

 

I don't see the "Elabo" on nibs.com.   Is there something I'm missing?  :blush:



#15 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 03 February 2018 - 21:06

The indy-pen-dance.com site is interesting, and I'll keep it in mind for the future.   However, I think that as Gerigo says, the route is the Pilot Falcon Elabo or one of those rare vintage nibs like I sometimes see on vintagepens.com.  And yes, the dip pens are probably about the only option for true Copperplate, and I don't mind using them at all (and in fact have a lovely collection of vintage dip pen nibs and holders) but if I'm doing something where I don't want to risk dripping ink on the paper, it would be nice to have a fountain pen that could replicate that work.  In any case, most of the time I'm just trying to write a decent Spencerian that isn't quite Copperplate, and I think the Falcon or a vintage nib is about the only option. 

 

Having said that, has anyone tried one of the Stipula "flex" nibs?



#16 gerigo

gerigo

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 807 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Flag:

Posted 06 February 2018 - 16:49

Gracie, I have tried them all, and have them all with the exception of the new batch of JOWO gold flex that Edison, Franklin Christoph and Montegrappa has. They all tout flex, but really are soft nibs.

 

You seem intent on wanting to spend the money to get flex:) If you REALLY want to spend the money to get factory "flex" the only 2 that I feel come close is the Pilot Custom 743 FA nibs that are no. 15 nibs and the OMAS extra flessibile. The rest are just soft nibs.

 

But seriously the Indy Pen Dance route is going to get you the best flex nib out there that would closely mimick vintage.

 

A tip. You can VISUALLY see if a nib will be flexible or not by how long the tines are. When tines are long and narrow, chances are this design will allow for the tines to spread for flex. How far they spread will depend then on how thick the material is. Cut outs where the nib is at its widest does NOT allow for tines to splay. They only give the nib a feeling of softness.


Edited by gerigo, 06 February 2018 - 16:50.


#17 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 06 February 2018 - 17:13

Good morning, Gerigo!  Thanks yet again for the continuing information.  I appreciate it. 

 

I do have a question -

 

You say "the Pilot custom 743 FA nibs that are the no. 15 nibs" - I have a Custom with an FA nib, which I love, but I don't know what you mean by "no. 15 nib".  How do I know this?  Also, is this different to what you describe further down, by the "cut outs where the nib is at its widest", because that sounds like the FA?  (This is an edit - I just checked the pen and it has a number 10 on the nib along with the FA.  So what's a no. 15?)

 

I have an Edison with Richard Binder's custom drawing nib, which has seriously long tines that are either very soft or very flexy - not sure which - but they go from needlepoint to double broad with almost no pressure, and I'm rather terrified of it, as it was expensive and I don't want to break it.

 

I also have a Pilot Justus 95 from Classic Pens with the added flex, and it is the closest thing that I have to what I think of as a flex fountain pen.  I do have a Falcon that slipped while I was pressing down on the converter to fill it and bent the nib on the bottom of the ink bottle . :gaah:  John Mottishaw did a heroic job of mending it into a needlepoint fine version of the original, but of course the degree of flex from needlepoint to broad is much more restricted because the tines are so short.  

 

I would love to try an Omas Extra flessible but wouldn't know where to start on choosing one, if I could even find one. 

 

I'm about to sell two of my vintage Wahls, a vintage Waterman, and a vintage Lady Patricia, all of which have various degrees of flex but the range is all more broad than I like.  However, having had my FPN membership wiped out somehow by the system last summer, I now have to wait to get back up to Gold in order to put anything into the Classifieds.  Maybe then I can trade something for an Omas.


Edited by Gracie, 06 February 2018 - 17:41.


#18 tknechtel

tknechtel

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,027 posts

Posted 06 February 2018 - 17:21

I wanted to put in a word for Pierre at the Desiderata Pen Company and his Daedalus pens. They employ a Zebra G-nib, which is used by manga artists because of its flexibility. It's a very just-the-facts-ma'am kind of pen, no frills. And I use it for drawing, not calligraphy. But it's a great flexible pen at a very reasonable price (the different models go for between $65 and $100), and Pierre stands behind his products.



#19 Gracie

Gracie

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • Location:Vancouver Island
  • Flag:

Posted 06 February 2018 - 17:40

Hello tknechtel,  and thank you for that.  Somehow that company got completely past me.  What a gorgeous home page!  I will definitely look thoroughly at that over my cup of tea (and read the Leigh Reyes review slowly).



#20 Nail-Bender

Nail-Bender

    "Allo, daffy English kniggets"

  • FPN Supporter - Rhodium

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 638 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pa.
  • Flag:

Posted 06 February 2018 - 20:33

I wanted to put in a word for Pierre at the Desiderata Pen Company and his Daedalus pens.

IMG_0724.JPG

This was written by a FPR Triveni w/ Creaper nib & PR Avocado Green but I agree 100% with tknechtel

3 Desiderata Icarus pens seen below & one will get inked today :)








Sponsored Content




|