Ebay Money Back Guarantee Scam

[Bunny_Police]

Hey everyone,

 

In the last batch of pens I sold on eBay, I encountered a buyer that has learnt the tricks of eBay's flawed money back guarantee, and successfully managed to receive a pen from me and get themselves a full refund.

 

I have heard stories of scammers doing this through ebay with mobile phones, laptops etc, however this is the first time I have encountered it when selling a fountain pen. I would quite like to publish their eBay username for other sellers to block, however I want to make sure I am allowed to do so first.

 

Hopefully this could help to prevent anyone else from falling victim to their tricks.

[Bill P]

Can u share the scam?

[Bluey]

Can u share the scam?

I wouldn't think it's a good idea to broadcast it. Probably best to let people know what to be aware of so we know what to look out for (eg if you see such and such, be on your guard).

Edited December 28, 2017 by Bluey

[Bill P]

I would like to be aware of it, so I can avoid it.

 

A PM works too.

 

IMO better to expose it than to keep the scam a secret

[KellyMcJ]

This has been going on for a long time. Fortunately, most people aren't jerks.

 

Unfortunately, there's always that handful that are. A friend of mine's father got ripped off for a rather large sum- and almost lost his business- the buyer received the item, sold it for a profit and claimed it was not received and got a full refund which was yanked directly from the seller's bank account. If I recall correctly, I think he was able to recover the stolen funds by proving that the "unsent" item had been received and sold, but not before a big hassle ensued. And he's one of the lucky ones.

 

It's one of the reasons I don't sell on eBay. It only takes one.

 

ETA:

Bill P I don't see any harm in saying, since this has been going on for as long as eBay has had such robust buyer protection policies (boon to buyers, bane to sellers.) Scammer buys item, receives item, claims item never arrived, files claim with eBay, eBay refunds money, scammer keeps both item and money. It's strikingly easy to do. It doesn't happen more often because most people aren't jerks.

 

ETA2:

 

One of the best ways to protect yourself is to ship signature required, with insurance, delivery confirmation etc and keep all records. This is a pain in the butt for both buyer and seller, and adds to shipping costs considerably. It protects buyer and especially seller if someone decides to be a jerk or the item is damaged or lost etc; eBay will always side with the buyer, unless you can prove the seller's fault (which is arduous at best). Buyer will get their money back one way or the other.

Edited December 28, 2017 by KellyMcJ

[Chrissy]

Hey everyone,

 

In the last batch of pens I sold on eBay, I encountered a buyer that has learnt the tricks of eBay's flawed money back guarantee, and successfully managed to receive a pen from me and get themselves a full refund.

 

I have heard stories of scammers doing this through ebay with mobile phones, laptops etc, however this is the first time I have encountered it when selling a fountain pen. I would quite like to publish their eBay username for other sellers to block, however I want to make sure I am allowed to do so first.

 

Hopefully this could help to prevent anyone else from falling victim to their tricks.

 

You can't publish the buyers eBay username.

 

I would like to know more details without too much being given away. Otherwise we can't ensure we don't fall victim to any tricks.

 

Firstly, exactly how can you confirm that the buyer received the pen? If you sent it with a tracking number, then ebay's buyer policy is clear. The buyer has to file a request to return the pen for a full refund.

 

In order to do that he needs to give a reason. Either non receipt or not as described. The tracking number confirms the first option.

 

There used to be rumours of a scam where the original pen might not have been the one returned, but eBay are wise to that one and will accept pictures plus tracking of the returned item.

[Bill P]

The Seller is protected by Ebay on delivery issue, IF the Seller follows the Ebay policies...

 

Ship with tracking with delivery confirmation on items up to $750 (I believe that is the current amount), and items OVER $750 tracking, delivery confirmation, and signature...

 

Paypal is similar although at one time their $$ amount requiring signature was different.

 

If the seller can't document the above, well then they are not protected...

 

I was thinking the scam that the Bunny_Police was referring to might be something different, other than the seller not following the Ebay policies/guidelines...so I would want to know what it is ...

 

Unfortunately Ebay can't provide 100% protection for the buyer OR the Seller under all possible circumstances...

I have completed somewhere over 600 transactions on ebay as a buyer and a seller, and I have learned(with some experiences) along the way...mostly great transactions, but there been some that...ugh...there is a certain amount of trust that you are dealing with a trustworthy person on the other end of the transaction, and that is not always the case.

[Left FPN]

The buyer must open a case against the seller before ebay or Paypal consider a refund.

 

The case will then document/record discussions between the buyer and seller.

 

If the seller answers all questions and provides photographs of the packaged item along with the postal tracking receipt I find it extremely difficult to believe ebay or Paypal will side with the buyer.

 

In the OP's case we will not know the ebay member details of both parties so we cannot look into their feedback and thus we cannot comment further.

[Chrissy]

The buyer must open a case against the seller before ebay or Paypal consider a refund.

 

The case will then document/record discussions between the buyer and seller.

 

If the seller answers all questions and provides photographs of the packaged item along with the postal tracking receipt I find it extremely difficult to believe ebay or Paypal will side with the buyer.

 

In the OP's case we will not know the ebay member details of both parties we cannot look into their feedback and thus we cannot comment further.

 

Yes this has been my experience as a buyer.

 

PayPal is slightly different to eBay in that they only offer full refunds for non-receipt.

 

However, if an item is purchased on eBay, then you have to go through eBay even though you might have paid by PayPal.

 

It is possible to end up with a pen and a full refund. For example, if a seller sends you a counterfeit pen.

[naomii]

There are so many kind of scams that we face now a days. Companies and websites promise on something and they don't fulfill them. There are some terms and conditions that we should always take care of. And we also need to stay away from scams and first check they are really from the websites or not.

[Bill P]

I had one a few years ago, when I had hardly sold anything on ebay...

I was a novice.

 

I was selling my old iPhone.

 

So I had a buyer from India, paid buy it now. He specifically wanted the iPhone sent USPS First class..

 

So he paid for it using PayPal, and I shipped it as he requested USPS First Class...So I had tracking, and I thought I had delivery confirmation.

 

So, several weeks later the buyer says he didn't receive the iPhone...I had tracking documentation indicated it had shipped, and the tracking continued until the iPhone left the USA...then the tracking stopped. No delivery confirmation.

 

So the buyer initiates a non delivery claim thru ebay.

 

I provided my documentation, including the specific request by the buyer for USPS First Class...well the ebay rep shared with me this was not the only non delivery claim for an iPhone that this buyer had in process...there were many. Ebay found in my favor...they also then removed the buyer from ebay.

 

Three days later the buyer makes the non delivery claim with PayPal...I provide the same information to PayPal, including the fact that this buyer had several similar claims with ebay, and the buyer was removed from ebay...and the fact that ebay had found in my favor. PayPal then found in my favor also.

 

About 4 months later I receive a letter of notification from either Paypal or ebay indicating that the buyer had filed a claim thru his credit card company for non delivery....this one really surprised me.

 

Apparently the buyer was very very clever, and did not have the full amount of the purchase in his PayPal account, so the purchase price was split between the PayPal balance and the remainder was charged to his credit card...this allowed him to file a claim with the credit card co too...very very clever.

 

Luckily I had saved all of my documentation from the ebay and PayPal claims...and provided them again...

 

Frankly I am not sure how this claim with the credit card co ended, because I had no contact at the credit card company...could be the Credit cary ate the claim or maybe ebay or PayPal ate the claim, or maybe the credit card co rejected the claim too...I was not charged.

 

But this was a great learning experience, although it could have ended up being an expensive learning lesson.

 

I have been very disciplined in my shipping since then...and if I am uncomfortable with something, as either a buyer or seller, I call ebay or PayPal to obtain their suggestions.

 

Most times though, I have had really great transactions on ebay...but there are always the unscrupulous minority that ruins it for all..

Edited December 29, 2017 by Bill P

[Left FPN]

The bay must now have a special department set up for iPhone fraud. There are literally tens, if not hundreds, listed on the bay when a new model is released and in short stock. They range from stupidly high to ridiculously low prices.

 

Recently I have been looking for a new iphone and viewed some very obvious fraudulent listings which I reported. The result being they were taken down very quickly unlike say if I spotted an obvious pen fraud where they are rarely taken down if at all.

[Bluey]

 

Recently I have been looking for a new iphone and viewed some very obvious fraudulent listings which I reported. The result being they were taken down very quickly unlike say if I spotted an obvious pen fraud where they are rarely taken down if at all.

I hope you don't intend to buy one from ebay. I never get a phone from anywhere other than direct from the network.

[Left FPN]

I hope you don't intend to buy one from ebay. I never get a phone from anywhere other than direct from the network.

I have purchased two iphone 6s's from the bay.

 

The first 2 years ago when they were released, brand new in sealed box with till receipt from Harrods, London and £100 less than Apple or JL. Totally clean and legit. My wife has it and its been faultless. To this day I don't understand that sale/purchase. Seller said it was purchased as a gift for her and she did not want it.

 

The second this week, a 1 year old, totally mint, phone with original purchase receipt, documents, accessories, boxed etc. Someone upgrading to an X. My daughter is now running it.

 

You just have to be very selective, do your IMEI research and ask questions.

[Bluey]

You're braver than me.

That's correct about thoroughly checking the IMEI. Got to be careful of blocked phones (aka paperweights). Never buy a phone from abroad.

[ian1964]

You're braver than me.

That's correct about thoroughly checking the IMEI. Got to be careful of blocked phones (aka paperweights). Never buy a phone from abroad.

I have now bought 2 Xiaomi Android phones from Aliexpress over the years....the most reliable Android phones I have ever owned and at a fraction of the Network prices. I buy from abroad

[KellyMcJ]

A friend of mine works for T-Mobile. This is one of the phone related scams:

 

Seller sells working phone. Buyer receives phone, all is good. Seller then reports phone stolen. Phone is locked, seller gets new phone from carrier.

 

People call tech support and want to know why their brand new phone suddenly locked up. There's nothing the carrier can do (at least short term). It turns into quite a mess.

[BentNibs]

I am a long time owner of a gaming store chain. We stopped selling on ebay all together. The risk was too high. When we did sell on ebay.. the entire process was video taped. If the person bought a collectible card we had video from the time the item was pulled, to it being packaged and we would initial the seal and all over the envelope in UV ink.

 

If the person got another copy of a card before the one you mailed them got to them they would simply rip it up and claim it arrived damaged. Another issue we had was people would order sealed product, open it..pull the good cards out of it and replace them with terrible worth no money cards and then claim they got the item already opened..we get stuck with a box of trash. Last but not least..people would buy a card (remember some of these cards are high dollar, up to 35k) then claim you sent them a fake. Ebay refunds them, you get returned a fake. They keep the actual card.

 

Point, if you do business on Ebay you have to accept some level of risk/loss.

[KellyMcJ]

Last but not least..people would buy a card (remember some of these cards are high dollar, up to 35k) then claim you sent them a fake. Ebay refunds them, you get returned a fake. They keep the actual card.

 

ACK!!!! That's something I hadn't thought of. (I guess because I didn't think most people had enough fake merchandise sitting around to pull of a scheme like that.)

[BentNibs]

 

ACK!!!! That's something I hadn't thought of. (I guess because I didn't think most people had enough fake merchandise sitting around to pull of a scheme like that.)

Sadly happens a lot. Maybe not as much with other products but with collectible cards its a big thing. Some people traded for and got a fake then they feel ripped so they pull that scam, some just order from china and turn a 3.00 investment into several hundred dollar card. I actually study fakes. I have relationships with all the biggest manufacturers of fakes and i get every print run well before they are released. I use usb microscopes, bend test, light test, ink test etc.

 

I can't imagine it would be too difficult to pull off on ebay, all someone would have to do is find a high end pen that they make fakes of.