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Sailor Broad - Lamy 2000 Nib Size?


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#21 KellyMcJ

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 07:01

Neither are soft nibs. I owned the Lamy 2000 for over a year and I have 3 Sailors right next to me. They are no different in their softness, and the Lamy 2000 nib is as stiff as you can get. The geometry of the nib alone tells you that. It has all the softness of the Parker 51 and the Waterman Carene. Zilch.


Maybe there wasn't a difference in yours perhaps but there is definitely a difference in mine. I'm crazy but I'm not blind or stupid.

Edited by KellyMcJ, 01 January 2018 - 07:01.


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#22 Bluey

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 07:29

Sigh. Believe what you want if it makes you happy.


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#23 KellyMcJ

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 11:06

I really don't comprehend what's so unbelievable about the fact that I CAN SEE THE TINES SEPERATING when pressure is applied. Unless you think I'm hallucinating?

This is officially the stupidest argument I've had in a good long while.

#24 Gasquolet

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 18:28

What a strange conversation.  For the record I have a Lamy 2000 and several Sailors.  The Lamy nib isn't a real nail, all their nibs respond (not flex) with writing pressure though, it's just not natural for me to want to with the Sailors as additional pressure doesn't yield much benefit I find with the one exception of the KOP nib.  The Platinum president nib is a proper 'shouting from the rooftops' nail that shows no benefit from writing with pressure but what a magnificent nail it is!

 

It's fortuitous that this thread has just appeared as I have been dithering over the Lamy 2000 medium or fine decision for the last week.  I sold a few pens lately and unexpectedly have decided another 2000 is a good thing to reward myself with.  Mainly for the slip cap and discreetness at work and because I have just fallen for my existing 2000 with OB nib again.  It's far too broad and wet for work but I love it for casual writing.

 

Your writing samples have convinced me the medium is what I need.  Particularly as I absolutely look for a nib that is responsive in the way your sample shows.  Accepting that it will have changed in the days following that sample, I don't always want the characteristic a lot of Japanese nibs have, and your Sailor shows it, of consistent flow and line width.  I also like the variation that comes from a responsive (not flex, I do not mean flex...) nib.  It seems to be a trait that is quite difficult to find reliably.

 

Is your 2000 still responsive like you found when you first started using it or has the flow increased so much the lines are uniform now?



#25 KellyMcJ

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 18:39

What a strange conversation.  For the record I have a Lamy 2000 and several Sailors.  The Lamy nib isn't a real nail, all their nibs respond (not flex) with writing pressure though, it's just not natural for me to want to with the Sailors as additional pressure doesn't yield much benefit I find with the one exception of the KOP nib.  The Platinum president nib is a proper 'shouting from the rooftops' nail that shows no benefit from writing with pressure but what a magnificent nail it is!

 

It's fortuitous that this thread has just appeared as I have been dithering over the Lamy 2000 medium or fine decision for the last week.  I sold a few pens lately and unexpectedly have decided another 2000 is a good thing to reward myself with.  Mainly for the slip cap and discreetness at work and because I have just fallen for my existing 2000 with OB nib again.  It's far too broad and wet for work but I love it for casual writing.

 

Your writing samples have convinced me the medium is what I need.  Particularly as I absolutely look for a nib that is responsive in the way your sample shows.  Accepting that it will have changed in the days following that sample, I don't always want the characteristic a lot of Japanese nibs have, and your Sailor shows it, of consistent flow and line width.  I also like the variation that comes from a responsive (not flex, I do not mean flex...) nib.  It seems to be a trait that is quite difficult to find reliably.

 

Is your 2000 still responsive like you found when you first started using it or has the flow increased so much the lines are uniform now?

 

ztszrkI.jpg



#26 Gasquolet

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 21:05

Sorry about the hurried scribble, your hand puts mine to shame at this hour of the day.

 

fpn_1515013295__img_20180103_205700-1248



#27 KellyMcJ

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 21:24

Gasquolet,

With Iroshizuku it is a monster! I can't imagine trying to use it on poor paper. Yikes!

#28 minddance

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 21:56

I own both sailors and Lamy2000. Lamy2000 certainly is not soft. Line variations can be had by writing style, actually rotating in and out of sweet spot, has to do with nib geometry. Of course, tines can spread a wee bit with many pens, even on a Lamy Safari but that does not mean it is not a nail. With skilful usage, any nib is capable of producing variations in line due to different degrees of contact of nib with paper.

#29 KellyMcJ

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 22:15

I own both sailors and Lamy2000. Lamy2000 certainly is not soft. Line variations can be had by writing style, actually rotating in and out of sweet spot, has to do with nib geometry. Of course, tines can spread a wee bit with many pens, even on a Lamy Safari but that does not mean it is not a nail. With skilful usage, any nib is capable of producing variations in line due to different degrees of contact of nib with paper.


I don't write with flex (even with flex nibs) and really only ever do figure 8s as a test but it flexes as easily as my Falcon soft fine and certainly easier than my Sailor broad. (The Zoom is a different beast and has more softness but still doesn't give line variation.)

#30 KellyMcJ

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 22:22

In fact here's an entire thread about it:

http://www.fountainp...lamy-2000-flex/

#31 Gasquolet

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:01

I own both sailors and Lamy2000. Lamy2000 certainly is not soft. Line variations can be had by writing style, actually rotating in and out of sweet spot, has to do with nib geometry. Of course, tines can spread a wee bit with many pens, even on a Lamy Safari but that does not mean it is not a nail. With skilful usage, any nib is capable of producing variations in line due to different degrees of contact of nib with paper.

 

 

I think perhaps we are talking at cross purposes.  I don't want to get into a 'what is flex and what is a nail' debate.

I am interested in pens that have responsive nibs with normal writing.  I have both vintage soft and modern 'flex' nibs among others but what I find I enjoy the most is responsive nibs.  I'm sure one person's responsive nib is another's flex etc  but am heartened to see a pleasing line from an apparently light hand here which KellyMcJ has shared with writing samples.  I had not appreciated the Lamy 2000 was like this before so am now considering it more seriously.

 

A lot of the value in what I deem to be responsive is in flow control rather than tine spreading.  As such I suppose inconsistent production of the nib polishing and adjustment may mean another Lamy 2000 medium may have starting issues or be a very wet nib, like my oblique broad above; it precludes any line variation as the flow is so heavy with a light touch that there is almost no variation in flow or line intensity unless the contact 'foot' of the nib partially lifts from the paper as you can see in several places in my hurried scribble.

 

It's not inked at the moment but the nib I have the most consistent response from is an modern Conway Stewart that will vary from a true unbroken hairline to a moderately wet true fine line without using any downward 'push', just the natural variation in contact pressure that results from writing with a light hand.  I don;t suppose an off the shelf L2K will be that good very often but think it;s worth a go.

 

Thanks again KellyMcJ.



#32 KellyMcJ

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:15

 
 
I think perhaps we are talking at cross purposes.  I don't want to get into a 'what is flex and what is a nail' debate.
I am interested in pens that have responsive nibs with normal writing.  I have both vintage soft and modern 'flex' nibs among others but what I find I enjoy the most is responsive nibs.  I'm sure one person's responsive nib is another's flex etc  but am heartened to see a pleasing line from an apparently light hand here which KellyMcJ has shared with writing samples.  I had not appreciated the Lamy 2000 was like this before so am now considering it more seriously.
 
A lot of the value in what I deem to be responsive is in flow control rather than tine spreading.  As such I suppose inconsistent production of the nib polishing and adjustment may mean another Lamy 2000 medium may have starting issues or be a very wet nib, like my oblique broad above; it precludes any line variation as the flow is so heavy with a light touch that there is almost no variation in flow or line intensity unless the contact 'foot' of the nib partially lifts from the paper as you can see in several places in my hurried scribble.
 
It's not inked at the moment but the nib I have the most consistent response from is an modern Conway Stewart that will vary from a true unbroken hairline to a moderately wet true fine line without using any downward 'push', just the natural variation in contact pressure that results from writing with a light hand.  I don;t suppose an off the shelf L2K will be that good very often but think it;s worth a go.
 
Thanks again KellyMcJ.


You're quite welcome! :)

I'm not a flex writer, I do have flex pens and I write normally with them. My hand doesn't have a lot of "pull" or "down" strokes and I can't be bothered to learn a new hand. So I use them lightly like any other pen and enjoy them.

The 2000's nib is very smooth and springy - I don't have another nib like it and it's quickly becoming another "can't put it down" pen for me. It's like writing with a very smooth spring. Seeing as it's not a flex nib, using it as one isn't the best idea- that line variation, about 2x spread - was easy to achieve with gentle pressure.

There is a sweet spot. The nib is highly polished and so the sweet spot does not cause scratching, but it will change the ink flow. I have complete confidence that you'll get used to it.

#33 Bluey

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:37

I CAN SEE THE TINES SEPERATING when pressure is applied. Unless you think I'm hallucinating?

This. Would love to see a video of your tines spreading to produce the line variation on your magic Lamy 2000

 

This person in the thread your quoted says it quite accurately, but to say the tines spread to make it "springy" and to produce any line variation is puzzling. I know the tines don't spread because the geometry of the nib says that it doesn't and it won't. Just like it won't on a Parker 51.
 


Edited by Bluey, 04 January 2018 - 01:52.

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#34 KellyMcJ

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:40

This

 


Dude, I don't know what your obsession is with making me think there's something wrong with my pen but from where I stand I'm starting to wonder if you're a troll.

#35 KellyMcJ

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:49

Since you're so sure of yourself Bluey, here you go!



Apologies for the shaking, it's actually really hard to hold the camera, pen and paper at the same time with only two hands.

#36 Bluey

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:01

Thanks. You've quite clearly demonstrated that it does indeed show some softness there, and I've never seen any other Lamy 2000 being anything other than a total nail .


Edited by Bluey, 04 January 2018 - 02:02.

Mediterranean blue, Asa Goa, China blue, Royal blue, Sapphire blue, Indigo, Washable Blue....the colours of the rainbow.


#37 KellyMcJ

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:14

Thanks. You've quite clearly demonstrated that it does indeed show some softness there, and I've never seen any other Lamy 2000 being anything other than a total nail .


As I said it may well be variations in different nibs. I've seen quite a few people say it's quite a soft nib but a few people say it's not.

#38 minddance

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 09:13

You're quite welcome! :)

I'm not a flex writer,

The 2000's nib is very smooth and springy - I don't have another nib like it and it's quickly becoming another "can't put it down" pen for me. It's like writing with a very smooth spring. Seeing as it's not a flex nib, using it as one isn't the best idea- that line variation, about 2x spread - was easy to achieve with gentle pressure.


Wow, a 2x spread on a Lamy2000, is that going to be a one-off affair? I would love to see how many times that Lamy2000 can spread 2x and 'with gentle pressure' and go back to its original nib width :)

I am intrigued: do most people who are 'non flex writers' do a 2x tine spread - with gentle pressure?



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