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Vintage Flex Pens - What To Invest In?


lalaland999

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I'm looking to "invest" in a nice vintage flex fountain pen. Having not a lot of experience, I'm hesitant to try eBay. There are a few on vintagepen.net I'm looking at - all Lady Patricia's, all superflexes. The other I'm looking at is a Waterman 12 with a #2 nib. I received a nice bonus at work this year, so I'm willing to spend a bit of money (under $500). Do you have any advice or suggestions, on a specific pen or a place to look? I've gravitated towards Watermans, for some reason, but I'm not married to it. I'd appreciate your opinions! Thank you.

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That's a good place to start. But don't fool yourself think it is an investment

 

True. I don't really. I want to use it often! But mostly I'm wondering if it's worth dropping that amount of money on it. I'm just not impressed with modern flex nibs.

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my thoughts are that since it's the nib that sounds of most importance, then buying untested might not be a good idea. You might achieve most satisfaction and with least risk by purchasing - in person - from a known and reliable source. This will give you the opportunity to actually try the pen/nib - flex can mean different things to different people - you don't comment on the level of flex you think might suit best.

Waterman's are good vintage pens - the 52 has a big following, and some high end versions can cost many shekels.

Edited by PaulS
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my thoughts are that since it's the nib that sounds of most importance, then buying untested might not be a good idea. You might achieve most satisfaction and with least risk by purchasing - in person - from a known and reliable source. This will give you the opportunity to actually try the pen/nib - flex can mean different things to different people - you don't comment on the level of flex you think might suit best.

Waterman's are good vintage pens - the 52 has a big following, and some high end versions can cost many shekels.

 

I would love to test one before buying, but there no shops around my area. I have researched the online shops I've been looking at, which have great reviews. But you're right, I just won't know until I get it. (I have found ones where there are writing samples so I at least know what the script could look like.)

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I'd look for vintage Pelikan or Montblanc piston filler flex pens. Waterman or Mabie Todd Swan or other vintage Sac fillers are going to have sacs needing replaced every few years, and taking apart a century old fragile hard rubber body pen without destroying it to get at the sac can be like rolling the dice sometimes.

Edited by max dog
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Mauricio is one of our superflex gurus......I havn't looked lately, but he sold different '30's pens with superflex nibs.

One of the major things is the very fiddly work matching the nib's and feeds depth, to each other and to the barrel. He says that makes a great difference to how much flex your nib has, how fast the feed can feed the nib.

I do have two superflex 52's from him.

 

My advice is to spend very little money...buy an Ahab, which is a very stiff semi-flex in pressure superflex pen.....then have the 'Ahab Mod' done on the nib....two little half moons are filed out. That brings that nib to superflex; first stage, Easy Full Flex.

Which is nice and flexible. My Ahab went from in the box to out once the Ahab Mod was done.

 

Then you can see if you have the patience to learn how to draw the letters for a flexible nib.

I have a stiff nib Italic Calligraphy book, that I found ......well, got it open in front of me, to learn how to draw letters.

The first time I tried a wet noodle and Spencerian script, I knew I had to draw the letter and with that Italic book open, where the nib cants, in the push pull drawing of the letter.

I am sure there are better books for Spenserian writing.....but I knew I'd be turning and canting the nib to get shape.

Too bad I'm too lazy to learn to write. Therefor never down loaded Spenserian.

But modifying the Ahab, will let you be too lazy too, with out putting out the cash.

Then once you decide after some practice....yes.....then you still have the money locked up in your bank vault safety deposit box.

I do know how money burns holes in pockets..... :headsmack: :doh:

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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I'd look for vintage Pelikan or Montblanc piston filler flex pens. Waterman or Mabie Todd Swan or other vintage Sac fillers are going to have sacs needing replaced every few years, and taking apart a century old fragile hard rubber body pen without destroying it to get at the sac can be like rolling the dice sometimes.

That's a good point! Thanks.

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Mauricio is one of our superflex gurus......I havn't looked lately, but he sold different '30's pens with superflex nibs.

One of the major things is the very fiddly work matching the nib's and feeds depth, to each other and to the barrel. He says that makes a great difference to how much flex your nib has, how fast the feed can feed the nib.

 

My advice is to spend very little money...buy an Ahab, which is a very stiff semi-flex in pressure superflex pen.....then have the 'Ahab Mod' done on the nib....two little half moons are filed out. That brings that nib to superflex; first stage, Easy Full Flex.

Which is nice and flexible. My Ahab went from in the box to out once the Ahab Mod was done.

 

Then you can see if you have the patience to learn how to draw the letters for a flexible nib.

I have a stiff nib Italic Calligraphy book, that I found ......well, got it open in front of me, to learn how to draw letters.

The first time I tried a wet noodle and Spencerian script, I knew I had to draw the letter and with that Italic book open, where the nib cants, in the push pull drawing of the letter.

I am sure there are better books for Spenserian writing.....but I knew I'd be turning and canting the nib to get shape.

Too bad I'm too lazy to learn to write. Therefor never down loaded Spenserian.

But modifying the Ahab, will let you be too lazy too, with out putting out the cash.

Then once you decide after some practice....yes.....then you still have the money locked up in your bank vault safety deposit box.

I do know how money burns holes in pockets..... :headsmack: :doh:

 

I believe his site is one of the ones I've been looking at.

 

I do have an Ahab, but you're right - it's stiff. Any recommendations for a good nib-meister who'll do that?

 

I have quite a bit of practice with brush pens and calligraphy. And a flexible Libelle nib, randomly, but I'd just like more flex. Good points. ;)

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I know I'm a bit of a broken record on this, but I believe strongly that it will save you money in the long run to figure out ahead of time if you actually like flexible nibs or not. It is a very different kind of writing, especially with really flexible nibs. Buy some dip pens. Even a modern Zebra G dip nib is more flexible than any modern flexible fountain pen. And if you go flexible vintage, like a Spencerian 1 "England" (not the "New York" ones), it's worth the $10 total you'd spend to get a nib and holder to determine yes, you really gotta get a flex fountain pen, or, you know, this really isn't for me.

 

And I'm not even selling any of my vintage nibs at the moment. I just believe this both saves people money, as well as cuts down on the buyer's remorse that leads to good flexible fountain pens being bought and put away, thus continuing the scarcity and crazy prices we've seen.

 

My $0.02 worth.

 

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Pendelton Brown will do that 'Ahab Mod', he may well have Ahab nibs he's done that to and are ready for sale.

 

 

I hate it when....'flex' pens are bandied around....or the word 'flex' when semi-flex is the proper term for most '50-70 German pens with some flex....like Pelikan, MB, Geha, Osmia....(((outside the 100n mentioned lower and the fabled steno nib...some have been lucky to get....the sample I tried was a vast disappointment.))) They didn't make any """Flex""" pens in the '50-70 era.

Sort of like talking about a 6 cylinder and an 8 cylinder car motor... and lumping them as 'powerful'...rather vague, yes?

 

There is a small difference between semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex.....and a World of Difference between them and Superflex!!! :gaah: :wallbash: ...............and I do want to keep someone from trying to get Olympic Splits out of a semi or maxi-semi-flex nib like they see idiots over stress superflex nibs on Youtube......after all it is a flex pen.....see semi-Flex.... the small print says......almost.

One should always read the small print.

 

You need a regular flex nib, that used to be made by Sheaffer or Esterbrook (Parker was nails since mid '30's) or a Pelikan 200, semi-vintage or modern. (Sheaffer and Esterbrook made nails also...it could well be the Sheaffer semi-flex made in the early '50's is much better than the Esterbrook's semi-flex that disappointed everyone.)

 

Mash the regular flex nib until it gives you a 3 X tine spread over a light down stroke. That is your base pressure.

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to reach 3X.

Maxi needs half of semi or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3 X......all three are in the 3X tine spread max set.

Spreading the tines more than 3 X = $$$$ repairs sooner or later for having sprung your nib.

 

Superflex can go only 4X(yep...has to do with ease of tine bend also) ....often 5 or 6....and 7 X EEF-BBB is very rare.......once is quite possible to make a nib spread wider than it should..........hummm....wonder I why I see so many 7 X pens are shown on You Tube..........or the writing shown when the nib was abused, that is then your worry when sold to you on Ebay.

 

Richard Binder has a very good article on stressing nibs......I call it how to Spring Your Nib.

 

My system of 1/2 does in superflex also....but is more a rough guide for 'noobie's to superflex; in there is much more variation in superflex.....but is horseshoe close.

Easy Full Flex, needs half of maxi....(or in most might even have a regular flex nib/ could be the fabled Japanese 'soft' nib :rolleyes: ) needing 1/8th the pressure of maxing a regular flex, to max it's flex, be that 5 or 6. I have 5 or so pens like that and some Degussa steel nibs. In that Flex range.

 

Wet Noodle....half of Easy, or 1/16th that of regular flex.....have three and each varies.

 

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle a term invented by John Sowoboda(sp) Oxnard on the com....a well known nib grinder....he don't like the term nibmeister when referring to him. I have none.....and am not going to chase one.

I have Hunt 99-100-101 dip pen nibs that make a Wet Noodle look uncooked.

 

I do have a Post War Pelikan 100n, superflex in first stage; Easy Full flex. It will go 5 X, I strive to keep max it at only 4 X.....I don't want to spring my nib.

 

I do have a superflex wet noodle Soennecken that I can't date.....could be '30's....could be after the war....in they were known to make more flexier nibs than MB. It's a bit more a Wet Noodle than either of the two 52s.

 

I have had a 20's MB safety pen in my hand and that was a real Weak Kneed Wet Noodle. :puddle:

 

I have 26 semi-flex pens.....they all seem to clump together.....I have 16 maxi-semi-flex...there is some variation of pressure but not as extreme as superflex. When testing before giving up the system, I had then only 20 semi-flex pens. 5 were maxi's...F-1(2), F-1 1/4th (2) and a Rupp nib that was F-1 1/2 and still far from first stage superflex. It is still the only of my 16 maxi's that is so flexible.

 

Outside of Osmia, where the diamond nib is semi-flex and the Supra nib is maxi-semi-flex....leaving Osmia out. I think 1 in 5 are maxi-semi flex from the '50-70 era, instead of all being semi-flex. Pure luck.

Not counting my 100n..... I have 3 maxi's of 7 in Pelikan.....2 maxi's in 7 for Geha.....and in MB I have one semi-flex....one maxi....and the only nib that lays right between semi&maxi.

 

 

Most of my late '30's Osmia/Boehler are semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex.........both are still in the 3 X tine spread range. But I don't have enough '30's German pens to say much.(or 30's Swan or '30s'Eversharp; having none of either)

 

 

Actually a semi-nail is a flex pen....it does flex twice as much as a nail. 2X vs 1X. :doh: :P

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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I know I'm a bit of a broken record on this, but I believe strongly that it will save you money in the long run to figure out ahead of time if you actually like flexible nibs or not. It is a very different kind of writing, especially with really flexible nibs. Buy some dip pens. Even a modern Zebra G dip nib is more flexible than any modern flexible fountain pen. And if you go flexible vintage, like a Spencerian 1 "England" (not the "New York" ones), it's worth the $10 total you'd spend to get a nib and holder to determine yes, you really gotta get a flex fountain pen, or, you know, this really isn't for me.

 

And I'm not even selling any of my vintage nibs at the moment. I just believe this both saves people money, as well as cuts down on the buyer's remorse that leads to good flexible fountain pens being bought and put away, thus continuing the scarcity and crazy prices we've seen.

 

My $0.02 worth.

 

Appreciate your two cents. You’ve at least talked me out of buying immediately. Wish we had more shops around here where I could try one out.

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Pendelton Brown will do that 'Ahab Mod', he may well have Ahab nibs he's done that to and are ready for sale.

 

 

I hate it when....'flex' pens are bandied around....or the word 'flex' when semi-flex is the proper term for most '50-70 German pens with some flex....like Pelikan, MB, Geha, Osmia....(((outside the 100n mentioned lower and the fabled steno nib...some have been lucky to get....the sample I tried was a vast disappointment.))) They didn't make any """Flex""" pens in the '50-70 era.

Sort of like talking about a 6 cylinder and an 8 cylinder car motor... and lumping them as 'powerful'...rather vague, yes?

 

There is a small difference between semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex.....and a World of Difference between them and Superflex!!! :gaah: :wallbash: ...............and I do want to keep someone from trying to get Olympic Splits out of a semi or maxi-semi-flex nib like they see idiots over stress superflex nibs on Youtube......after all it is a flex pen.....see semi-Flex.... the small print says......almost.

One should always read the small print.

 

You need a regular flex nib, that used to be made by Sheaffer or Esterbrook (Parker was nails since mid '30's) or a Pelikan 200, semi-vintage or modern. (Sheaffer and Esterbrook made nails also...it could well be the Sheaffer semi-flex made in the early '50's is much better than the Esterbrook's semi-flex that disappointed everyone.)

 

Mash the regular flex nib until it gives you a 3 X tine spread over a light down stroke. That is your base pressure.

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to reach 3X.

Maxi needs half of semi or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3 X......all three are in the 3X tine spread max set.

Spreading the tines more than 3 X = $$$$ repairs sooner or later for having sprung your nib.

 

Superflex can go only 4X(yep...has to do with ease of tine bend also) ....often 5 or 6....and 7 X EEF-BBB is very rare.......once is quite possible to make a nib spread wider than it should..........hummm....wonder I why I see so many 7 X pens are shown on You Tube..........or the writing shown when the nib was abused, that is then your worry when sold to you on Ebay.

 

Richard Binder has a very good article on stressing nibs......I call it how to Spring Your Nib.

 

My system of 1/2 does in superflex also....but is more a rough guide for 'noobie's to superflex; in there is much more variation in superflex.....but is horseshoe close.

Easy Full Flex, needs half of maxi....(or in most might even have a regular flex nib/ could be the fabled Japanese 'soft' nib :rolleyes: ) needing 1/8th the pressure of maxing a regular flex, to max it's flex, be that 5 or 6. I have 5 or so pens like that and some Degussa steel nibs. In that Flex range.

 

Wet Noodle....half of Easy, or 1/16th that of regular flex.....have three and each varies.

 

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle a term invented by John Sowoboda(sp) Oxnard on the com....a well known nib grinder....he don't like the term nibmeister when referring to him. I have none.....and am not going to chase one.

I have Hunt 99-100-101 dip pen nibs that make a Wet Noodle look uncooked.

 

I do have a Post War Pelikan 100n, superflex in first stage; Easy Full flex. It will go 5 X, I strive to keep max it at only 4 X.....I don't want to spring my nib.

 

I do have a superflex wet noodle Soennecken that I can't date.....could be '30's....could be after the war....in they were known to make more flexier nibs than MB. It's a bit more a Wet Noodle than either of the two 52s.

 

I have had a 20's MB safety pen in my hand and that was a real Weak Kneed Wet Noodle. :puddle:

 

I have 26 semi-flex pens.....they all seem to clump together.....I have 16 maxi-semi-flex...there is some variation of pressure but not as extreme as superflex. When testing before giving up the system, I had then only 20 semi-flex pens. 5 were maxi's...F-1(2), F-1 1/4th (2) and a Rupp nib that was F-1 1/2 and still far from first stage superflex. It is still the only of my 16 maxi's that is so flexible.

 

Outside of Osmia, where the diamond nib is semi-flex and the Supra nib is maxi-semi-flex....leaving Osmia out. I think 1 in 5 are maxi-semi flex from the '50-70 era, instead of all being semi-flex. Pure luck.

Not counting my 100n..... I have 3 maxi's of 7 in Pelikan.....2 maxi's in 7 for Geha.....and in MB I have one semi-flex....one maxi....and the only nib that lays right between semi&maxi.

 

 

Most of my late '30's Osmia/Boehler are semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex.........both are still in the 3 X tine spread range. But I don't have enough '30's German pens to say much.(or 30's Swan or '30s'Eversharp; having none of either)

 

 

Actually a semi-nail is a flex pen....it does flex twice as much as a nail. 2X vs 1X. :doh: :P

Thanks for the info! I have been reading up on the different types of flex nibs. I will probably try the Ahab mod first.

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I'd look for vintage Pelikan or Montblanc piston filler flex pens. Waterman or Mabie Todd Swan or other vintage Sac fillers are going to have sacs needing replaced every few years, and taking apart a century old fragile hard rubber body pen without destroying it to get at the sac can be like rolling the dice sometimes.

Sacs last much longer than 2 years for me.

San Francisco International Pen Show - The next “Funnest Pen Show” is on schedule for August 23-24-25, 2024.  Watch the show website for registration details. 
 

My PM box is usually full. Just email me: my last name at the google mail address.

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Some respected repair men blame short live of modern sacks on supersaturated inks.

 

Once upon a time, sacks lasted 30-40 years.

 

I have read that some say a modern rubber should last 10 years.

Well none of my re-sacked pens are so old...Vac, Snorkel or Esterbrook.....I let you know when they die.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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The air of Los Angeles is hard on rubber - my ob/gyn told me to replace my diaphragm every year because the acids in the air break down latex.

I’m going to suggest you try to get yourself to a Pen Show or your closest club to actually get your fingers around a couple of old pens. You may not even be able to control a flexible nib at first, but they are awfully fun to use.

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Dip pens is the way to fly when getting into super-flex nibs.....don't cost the world to ruin one....will require work to learn to draw the letters.

Sadly, I am lazy.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Some respected repair men blame short live of modern sacks on supersaturated inks.

 

Once upon a time, sacks lasted 30-40 years.

 

I have read that some say a modern rubber should last 10 years.

Well none of my re-sacked pens are so old...Vac, Snorkel or Esterbrook.....I let you know when they die.

I read someone mention even certain color dyes like red can hurt modern latex sacs. Well I had MB Corn Poppy red in my 52V foe a while and the SAC broke recently. So seems to be some truth to that in my one example. My next vintage flex will be a Piston filler like Pelikan or Montblanc. For now Im using a modern soft Pilot 912 FA for my flex. Not as nice as that Waterman ideal #2 nib, but it does OK with the right ink, ie MB permanent blue. Edited by max dog
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Well, good luck at getting a 1920's MB superflex :notworthy1: ..............or a '30's pre-38 superflex Pelikan.

Just because my post war 100n is superflex don't mean all will be.

 

Could get a P-75 flex pen....has twice as much flex as a P-51 or Vac.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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