Writing Characteristics Of M800 Vs. M1000

[ItsMeDave]

I've got four Pelikans, a black M800 with an EF nib, a striated green M800 with a F nib ground to an EEF nib, a Vibrant Blue 805 with a broad nib ground to a stub, and a M805 demonstrator with an EF nib.

The EEF nib was a mistake, but I love the EF and the stub.

It appears to be a common complaint/attribute/defect that the M800 nibs are very stiff. Personally, I have no issue with the stiffness of the nibs. I do zero flex writing and have a light touch. The nibs are very smooth and a pleasure to write with.

I've also got a Visconti Homosapiens, I think the bounciness of the palladium is fun, but I use it less than I use my Pelikans.

Likewise with my Pilot Custom 742 with the FA nib, nice, but give me a Pelikan any day of the week.

 

That preamble out of the way, I'm thinking of buying an M1000 with an EF nib. I understand that the performance of the M1000 nib is quite different from the M800 nib. I don't mind a bit of bounce, but is the M1000 nib so much different from the M800 nib.

Is it 'no bounce' as compared to a 'little bit of bounce?'

How does an M1000 nib compare to a Visconti palladium nib? Is it as bouncy?

The rest of my pen collection is variety of Sailor and Platinum pens (plus an MB 146). They're not as stiff as the Pelikan, but they certainly can't be classified as soft.

 

Thoughts? Will I hate an M1000?

 

Cheers,

 

David

 

[OCArt]

I just wrote with a M1000 and M800 both with B nibs. The M1000 is a much softer nib that offers more line variation and is wider to start with.The line with of the M1000 Broad nib is about 1.5 times the width of the M800 broad. I think you really need to write with both before you decide.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Depends on how heavy handed OCat is.....in the 1000 is a semi-flex nib. I tried one out at my B&M, and I have 26 semi-flex and 16 maxi-semi-flex nibbed pens.

A nails a nail....not tine spread unless you bench 400 pounds.

Semi-nail....2 X max.

These three are in the 3 X max set.

A well mashed Regular flex (which has nice spring but is not a 'Springy' nib..........semi-flex takes half of that pressure to reach 3 X....maxi-semi-flex half of that or 1/4th the pressure required to mash a regular flex to 3 x.

 

'Springy' has good tine bend and only 2 X tine spread, like a regular Falcon, MB.....the best is the new Imporium.....so close to semi-flex and no cigar.

 

 

Visconti palladium nib? Is it as bouncy?......From my reading, I don't think that is a semi-flex nib....more towards a regular flex.

 

The rest of my pen collection is variety of Sailor and Platinum pens (plus an MB 146). They're not as stiff as the Pelikan, but they certainly can't be classified as soft................it is quite possible Sailor and Platinum are semi-nails (like a 400/600).....often I think the so called 'soft' Japanese nib to be regular flex....in so many folks start out with nails.

I like shading inks, so have no need of super skinny nibs that need vivid supersaturated inks to be seen....and there never was any Japaneses pens on German Ebay the 6-8 times I looked....at least not used.

 

A modern MB would be like my Large Woolf, a 'Springy' nib with good tine bend, but only 2 X tine spread.

My '70-80's Large 146 has a regular flex nib; 3 X tine spread.

My '50-60's medium-large 146 (better balance by me) has a maxi-semi-flex nib. (Also have two other '50's MB's with semi-flex nibs.)

 

I do find the large 146 to be a more nimble pen than the 800....which I only tried for 3 days because it was a W.Germany one with that slightly more springy regular flex nib of the '82-90 era. (I do have a W.Germany 200 and that nib also is a tad more springy than later ones.)

I would guess that the 800 turned into a nail in '98, when the 400(&600) turned from nice regular flex into semi-nail blobs.

 

I would suggest tracking down a W.Germany 800 nib instead of the semi-flex 1000....and you can get a 400nn in 14K semi-flex, which is a very well balanced pen...posted.

 

The problem is the modern 1000's 18 K semi-flex nib is not for the heavy handed....in it is not as robust as a vintage 14 K semi-flex.....so will bend and stay bent.

 

My first semi-flex pen....(and I didn't consider my self heavy handed but was in I'd used a fountain pen as a youth and over a year after coming back)............ a 140 OB, took me three months to lighten my Hand so I wasn't always maxing the 3 X tine spread max the semi-flex nib..

 

The 1000 is a huge honking pen........one of the reasons I suggested the medium-long 400nn as a first semi-flex.

After you have mastered the 400nn, then if you want a 1000, you will be able to handle the semi-flex nib.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[Uncial]

The nib on the M1000 is larger than the 800/805. To my hand the 800/5 is very firm. Curiously, I have a Pelikan Everest which doesn't get as much use as it should because the nib is firmer again than the 800/5 (I think it is a 605 model base). The 1000 to my hand has a lovely nib. It has bounce but I wouldn't call it flex. It is also very wet. Some people complain about the wetness and others describe the nib as unpleasantly 'mushy'. I favour these two things so it fits me like a glove. I will admit to not liking the 1000 initially as, along with a nib that took a little bit of getting used to, I felt the balance was a little peculiar (especially compared to the 800/5, which I thought had better balance and I still do feel that to be honest). The 1000 is a big beast of a pen. If you have small hands it will give you trouble.

 

My experience overall with Pelikan's has been good. I'm somewhat disappointed with the Everest because it is so darned firm and it doesn;t seem to hold a great deal of ink. The 800/5's I like for the wetness but would like it if they had more bounce and the 1000 is a dream once tamed. The only one I avoid is the 200 because I really, really dislike Pelikan's steel nibs; I find them horrible.

 

Edit:

Sorry, meant to add that the 1000 is quite similar to the Visconti palladiums, maybe a fraction more bouncy.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Uncial

[Jezza]

I dont presently have an M1000. However, I have owned three in the past: they each had more give than any of my M800s nibs. Same goes for the Visconti Homo Sapiens. Whether it qualifies as bouncy or just mushy is something I couldnt quite decide. However, I ultimately decided the extra mass and nib length of the M1000 just wasnt for me.

[sargetalon]

The M1000 is a lot softer by virtue of its large size. I wouldnt expect any issues for you if you have a light touch. There is line variation to be had and a nice spring. Wouldnt call it flex but its a very different experience than writing with the M800. I love mine. Certainly the most expressive nibs of Pelikans modern line up. I have no experience with the Visconti nibs with which tin compare.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Uncial & Jezza; how many @ '50-70 German semi-flex pens do you own?

 

Semi-flex is Not "Flex!!!- superflex.)...."Semi----almost". Actually if one has superflex....there is a big difference in flex rate of pressure needed and tine spread max.

 

Mushy...... .........No! The one I tested was a semi-flex nib....I had taken a semi-flex pen with me to the B&M, just to make sure. Mushy.....hummm, slightly sprung nib due to heavy hands???

 

(There are Japanese mushy nibs....from my reading.....a couple years ago, was much 'admired' in the soft gold nib chase.)

 

Semi-flex is wetter because of tine spread......and it takes a light Hand not to be maxing the nib all the time..................too many come from the modern 400/600 semi-nail or the 800 nail, into semi-flex where tine spread and bend is normal and wished for, with out any idea of what they are getting....in they refuse to own '50-65 era semi-flex Pelikans.....

 

I keep saying the W. Germany nib for an 800 is well worth chasing. Perhaps Penboard de would have one...............I found the 800 a clunky pen, but would own one with a W.Germany nib.

 

The 1000 is a big honking oversized pen, and like the 149 needs a extra large nib to be balanced in looks.

 

 

If one buys online, with out testing, it's a lot of money to be unsatisfied with.

Go to a B&M or a pen possy first...........

Edited December 11, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[ItsMeDave]

Thanks for the info, I'll certainly have to try before I buy.

[torstar]

Try before you buy, we sometimes like to overhype the pens we like on here...

[Mew]

I would call M1000 nib as soft, not semi-flex. I own both M80x and M100x. M80x is quite hard, but nonetheless pleasant to write with. M100x nib is soft, which is also nice. I do not get any line variation though because I write with almost a feather touch.

I would not recommend treating the M1000 nib as semi-flex. Once you start flexing a nib not meant for flex, it develops microfractures which destroys the structural integrity of the nib.

[BillH]

Try before you buy, we sometimes like to overhype the pens we like on here...

 

 

What?!!! It's on the internet, it HAS to be true!

 

Are you telling me all those people telling me their $1.09 Jinhaos that write 20 times better than all the lousy Montblancs and Pelikans they used to buy might be, uh, overstating their case just a titch? Because everybody knows those companies haven't made a good nib since 1937....

 

 

In all seriousness though, DO try to test drive it first, but remember, it takes a little regular use for you and the pen to bond... if you read these forums widely enough you'll find examples in every brand sub of folks who say "I didn't like it at first, but I've been using it regularly the past few weeks and I'm really starting to love this pen!" (my inflation devalued 2 cents)

[torstar]

 

 

What?!!! It's on the internet, it HAS to be true!

 

Are you telling me all those people telling me their $1.09 Jinhaos that write 20 times better than all the lousy Montblancs and Pelikans they used to buy might be, uh, overstating their case just a titch? Because everybody knows those companies haven't made a good nib since 1937....

 

 

In all seriousness though, DO try to test drive it first, but remember, it takes a little regular use for you and the pen to bond... if you read these forums widely enough you'll find examples in every brand sub of folks who say "I didn't like it at first, but I've been using it regularly the past few weeks and I'm really starting to love this pen!" (my inflation devalued 2 cents)

 

 

Thanks for expanding the laugh, both the 800 and 1000 write like you are holding a nail, and quite often I want to be writing with a nail.

 

I guess the 1000 nib is a bit smoother but I didn't fall on the ground and lay there in worship for a week over it.

[Bo Bo Olson]

It's a semi-flex 18K nib, that is not as robust as a 14 K vintage nib...........one shouldn't be maxing either all the time......................14 K semi-flex is better being more robust to learn to use semi-flex nibs. If one is experienced with semi-flex; one don't max the nib all the time.....If one is not experienced....and heavy handed nail/semi-nail user coming over to semi-flex with out even a few rounds of regular flex........................I can see....terms like mushy....having no experience with tine bend or spread.

I have read of posters new to semi-flex...coming from nails that bent the 1000's 18K nib....easy to do with heavy hands or the thought that semi-flex gives Olympic Splits of a 7 X superflex.........they could probably have done the same to a maxi-semi-flex.

 

I have 26 semi-flex and 16 maxi-semi-flex nibs....and definitions of tine spread and bend ease in regular flex, semi&maxi.

I have the impression many have little to no experience with real German '50-60's semi-flex....

 

No....you are not supposed to max the flex....nor try real fancy writing all the time....do read my signature. An occasional descender......not every letter like a superflex. A fatter first letter of a word, a fancy crossed T..................the expression of the trailing portion of an e.

 

Gee...it says semi-FLEX ........almost if pretty close in hand grenades ...not so between semi-flex and superflex.

Semi-flex has an ease of tine spread and bend......................Superflex is easy to flex, in tine bend and has more tine spread than super-flex.

 

Semi-flex adds that old fashioned fountain pen flair.....if you can get the 1000's nib stubbed it would make a good Oblique nib...like the vintage ones.....in it's the only semi-flex nib now made by Pelikan.

 

I'm not a superflex expert but have 5-6 Superflex first stage, Easy Full Flex, 3 wet noodles..........not counting dip pen nibs....which don't count in I don't use them.

[carlos.q]

Please try before you buy. I had a M1000 for a brief time and ended up trading it for a M805.

[BillH]

 

 

Thanks for expanding the laugh, both the 800 and 1000 write like you are holding a nail, and quite often I want to be writing with a nail.

 

I guess the 1000 nib is a bit smoother but I didn't fall on the ground and lay there in worship for a week over it.

 

 

Perhaps it would mean something to some folks to say the difference between the M8xx and the M1xxx is like the difference between a Camry and a Cadillac? If you've driven both you might recognize what I mean...

[zaddick]

I find the M1000 to be a lot wetter and mushy compared to the M800 nibs. I would say it was more bouncy than a Pd nib from Visconti but that is also a function of the shape and length of the nib.

 

You either accept these qualities or you end up getting rid of the pen or relegating it to certain dry inks. Th ed wetness is the far bigger issue to me than the bounce of the nib. So I either go all out with O3B and paint all over the paper or go smaller like an M CI nib. (I usually use BB and up in most brands).

[abstract49]

I have been following Pelikan discussions on this group almost since I got my first one. Seems opinions, analyses, etc., are all over the place, with some agreement when allowing for semantics.

 

I have M2xx (just a couple of the highlighter types, with the yellow and green inks that came with them), an M605 (blue) M, several M8xx's, and one M1000 green stripe. I got the last with a M nib, but since purchased a F [thank you, Rolf, MissingPen.de, for the very reasonable price and prompt service].

 

I don't list the M8xx pens here, because I would have to look for them and remind myself which I have. I have more of them than any other size/style, because I like their fit in my hand, the weight, etc. I like the M1000, too, but I don't feel as comfortable writing with it for as long periods as I do with the M8xx examples, regardless of nib size. Likewise, the M605 is okay for short sessions, but just doesn't hold up for me on longer stretches.

 

Several have advised, try before you buy, and I have to agree with that; you like springy nibs, go for springy nibs; you like nails, go for nails; and so on ad infinitum. Or if you have the funds and the inclination, buy on line at the best price you can find, give it a try, then keep or sell and move on.

[ItsMeDave]

I’m convinced to try before I buy.

In the meantime I decided to satisfy my Pelikan urge by purchasing an M805 blue stripe with an EF nib.

It was a toss up between this and the Stresemann, and the blue won.