Noodlers Ink In Vintage Pens

[RockingLR]

So I've read on several sites and through several threads here NOT to use Noodlers inks in vintage pens....I don't quite understand why. No one really says why they just say "well so and so says not to use it so I don't". I understand not using the baystate inks as they are slightly acidic from what I understand but the regular noodlers, even the permenant lines, I've never had issues cleaning out of a pen. I don't really care if the sac's get stained but I don't want them needlessly degrading my new to me pen. So can someone explain exactly why I shouldn't use noodlers inks? I own Bulletproof Black, Red/Black, Hunter Green, Luxury blue and La Rein Mauve from noodlers and the only one I would probably not put in a lever fill pen is La Rein Mauve just because that ones a big harder to clean in regular pens so it would probably be a royal pain in a vintage one that's not as easy to take a part.

Anywho actual explanations would be lovely. It just frustrates me how many places say not to use it but not WHY. Thanks

[Pickwick]

This question does frequently surface. I've used Noodler's inks in so-called vintage pens I inherited which have caused me no issues and I do a lot of writing. The only Noodler's ink which seems to experience notoriety is Bay State Blue.. If Nathan Tariff was aware that his inks might cause problems in old pens I'm in no doubt he would put a warning label on his bottles.

[RockingLR]

This question does frequently surface. I've used Noodler's inks in so-called vintage pens I inherited which have caused me no issues and I do a lot of writing. The only Noodler's ink which seems to experience notoriety is Bay State Blue.. If Nathan Tariff was aware that his inks might cause problems in old pens I'm in no doubt he would put a warning label on his bottles.

whoops. Sorry about that. I tried searching for it but didn't find much. That's what my thinking was over all. He seems pretty honest, at least more so then a lot of companies, on how his inks react to pretty much everything. I'm dipping my toe into the vintage pen world and didn't want to obliterate my pen the first use...and when researching inks all they said was stay away from boutique inks and Noodlers. I'm not liking the "safe" ink I bought for my pen in my modern flex pens....we shall see how it goes in the vintage one though.

[Pickwick]

whoops. Sorry about that. I tried searching for it but didn't find much. That's what my thinking was over all. He seems pretty honest, at least more so then a lot of companies, on how his inks react to pretty much everything. I'm dipping my toe into the vintage pen world and didn't want to obliterate my pen the first use...and when researching inks all they said was stay away from boutique inks and Noodlers. I'm not liking the "safe" ink I bought for my pen in my modern flex pens....we shall see how it goes in the vintage one though.

 

No apologies necessary, I find it frustrating looking up references to any subject on FPN. Don't worry other questions arise on previous subjects to reassure you that you are not alone.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Pickwick

[Barkingpig]

Besides users who have noted their preferences, I suspect some of the persons have mentioned their avoidance of inks due to material found on Mr. Richard Binder's site.

 

He has a solid reputation as a Restorer of pens besides his experience with nib repairs. On his Home Page is a glossary of References & among them is his opinion about inks & the results he has noticed.

 

It is listed as: "INKS: The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly;" (He notes the article was revised on June 12, 2017, so I believe the information would still be considered "current.")

[RockingLR]

Besides users who have noted their preferences, I suspect some of the persons have mentioned their avoidance of inks due to material found on Mr. Richard Binder's site.

 

He has a solid reputation as a Restorer of pens besides his experience with nib repairs. On his Home Page is a glossary of References & among them is his opinion about inks & the results he has noticed.

 

It is listed as: "INKS: The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly;" (He notes the article was revised on June 12, 2017, so I believe the information would still be considered "current.")

Thank you for that. I looked up that article and it appears that he may be talking about the Bay State series. the only inks in the noodlers like I've heard of gumming the sacs were the baystate inks....though I hope someone chimes in if that's not the case.

[katerchen]

I don't quite understand why.

 

 

Because he has one design philosophy : ink and paper interaction above all. To Nathan -- and he said it so on record -- the pen is just a disposable tool (one of the reasons he has his inexpensive pen lines in addition to inks). The only thing that matters is that his inks look good on paper and are extremely future proof. The pen materials' well being is not a consideration.

 

Which is all fine and dandy in pens that are made from modern plastics and are easily cleanable inside and out.

 

Neither of which is true for vintage pens.

 

And for the record : I do happily use a couple of his inks (Liberty's Elysium and North African Violets) -- in CC fillers with mass produced nib units.

 

Would I put any of them in my 100Ns or God forbid in a sac filler? Nope.

 

-k

[Pickwick]

 

Because he has one design philosophy : ink and paper interaction above all. To Nathan -- and he said it so on record -- the pen is just a disposable tool (one of the reasons he has his inexpensive pen lines in addition to inks). The only thing that matters is that his inks look good on paper and are extremely future proof. The pen materials' well being is not a consideration.

 

Which is all fine and dandy in pens that are made from modern plastics and are easily cleanable inside and out.

 

Neither of which is true for vintage pens.

 

And for the record : I do happily use a couple of his inks (Liberty's Elysium and North African Violets) -- in CC fillers with mass produced nib units.

 

Would I put any of them in my 100Ns or God forbid in a sac filler? Nope.

 

-k

 

Where do we find this "On record" I would be interested in reading it. Because should this be true then Nathan would be under obligation to place a warning label on his bottles to prevent anyone putting their ink into a valuable vintage fountain pen demanding compensation if it is ruined.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Pickwick

[max dog]

 

Where do we find this "On record" I would be interested in reading it. Because should this be true then Nathan would be under obligation to place a warning label on his bottles to prevent anyone putting their ink into a valuable vintage fountain pen demanding compensation if it is ruined.

There was an interview Brian Goulet did a couple of years ago with Nathan Tardiff, where Nathan expresses his philosphy of ink over pen. I will search for it on the Goulet site if it is still there and post it if I can find it.

 

Found it. It's an hour long video if you have the time where Nathan says a lot of things, but there is one point (@ 5:55 mins into the video) where he expresses his sentiment of ink being more important than pen or something to that effect.

 

I do like some of his inks like Black Swan in Australian Roses and Apache sunset, but I wouldn't put it in my Waterman 52. There are too many other ink brands out there that believe in pen over ink, so why take the chance.

Edited December 9, 2017 by max dog

[Pickwick]

There was an interview Brian Goulet did a couple of years ago with Nathan Tardiff, where Nathan expresses his philosphy of ink over pen. I will search for it on the Goulet site if it is still there and post it if I can find it.

 

Found it. It's an hour long video if you have the time where Nathan says a lot of things, but there is one point (@ 6 mins into the video) where he expresses his sentiment of ink being more important than pen or something to that effect.

 

I do like some of his inks like Black Swan in Australian Roses and Apache sunset, but I wouldn't put it in my Waterman 52. There are too many other safer inks out there.

 

I listened to the part you stated was on record, but to me he didn't make the offhand dismissive commentary you implied. It does need to be listened to carefully to get an idea of the context in his statement, and what he really meant by what he said.

 

I don't really understand why his inks seems to get so much flack.

[KellyMcJ]

This question comes up frequently, and people also caution against Japanese inks in vintage pens because they are alkaline.

 

The respondents seem to fall into a few groups:

 

1) No, never!

2) Yes, I love my colorful inks and I'll just resac the pen if I need to

3) Yes, I don't believe the hype.

 

I would say, personally, that I would use them with caution and only in pens that I feel comfortable working on, repeatedly if necessary. Just in case.

My experience with various rubbers (not in pens, mind you, but I restore antique electrical equipment and I see degraded rubber A LOT) leads me to believe that the worst damage probably happens in storage- I'm more afraid of letting a sac sit dry, in heat, etc for too long than putting any ink in it. When a pen is fine before you put it away and then dry rotted or melted when you pull it out again...the first question is often "what ink did you have in it last" not "what are the conditions it was stored in" and there's a tendency to blame the ink.

No matter what, though, it always seems to boil down to the above three answers and you have to pick the one you're comfortable with. And use your pen and be happy, it's your pen.

[MKeith]

This is truly a controversial issue. I have chosen (due to my own personal experience) not to use Noodlers as well as some Private Reserve inks in my pens with sacs. I will use them in most of my pens that are cartridge/convertors and piston fillers with the exception of those that can stain. With Richard Binder and Ron Zorn's experience it has additionally reinforced my decision. But, to each his own.

[inkstainedruth]

A lot of Noodler's inks are very saturated. That means they can be hard to flush out of pens, particularly vintage ones. And some people are also concerned about the ink staining the inside of the pen as well. Me, I wouldn't put a lot of the Noodler's inks into something like a Vacumatic. But I have put some Noodler's inks in my Parker 51s without hesitating twice about it.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[katerchen]

There was an interview Brian Goulet did a couple of years ago with Nathan Tardiff, where Nathan expresses his philosphy of ink over pen. I will search for it on the Goulet site if it is still there and post it if I can find it.

 

Found it. It's an hour long video if you have the time where Nathan says a lot of things, but there is one point (@ 5:55 mins into the video) where he expresses his sentiment of ink being more important than pen or something to that effect.

 

I do like some of his inks like Black Swan in Australian Roses and Apache sunset, but I wouldn't put it in my Waterman 52. There are too many other ink brands out there that believe in pen over ink, so why take the chance.

 

You have better memory than I ... I was wracking my brain trying to remember where I heard it.

 

It was quite funny, Brian hiding in his closet doing the interview (for acoustics).

[JakobS]

So I've read on several sites and through several threads here NOT to use Noodlers inks in vintage pens....I don't quite understand why. No one really says why they just say "well so and so says not to use it so I don't". I understand not using the baystate inks as they are slightly acidic from what I understand but the regular noodlers, even the permenant lines, I've never had issues cleaning out of a pen. I don't really care if the sac's get stained but I don't want them needlessly degrading my new to me pen. So can someone explain exactly why I shouldn't use noodlers inks? I own Bulletproof Black, Red/Black, Hunter Green, Luxury blue and La Rein Mauve from noodlers and the only one I would probably not put in a lever fill pen is La Rein Mauve just because that ones a big harder to clean in regular pens so it would probably be a royal pain in a vintage one that's not as easy to take a part.

Anywho actual explanations would be lovely. It just frustrates me how many places say not to use it but not WHY. Thanks

 

Bay State Blue is basic or alkaline not acidic. My experience with alkaline inks and latex sacs has been that they turn into goo quite quickly (1-2 fills with Pilot Iro Chiku-Rin), the green dye was impregnated at the spots in the sac where it was melted together and tacky.

 

As far as other Noodlers, the high saturation rate can be a concern for pens that would need a great deal of engaging and depressing the lever to remove the ink. The plastic pen bodies can be warped at the lever area over time by the pressure placed on the lever ring, creating a bulge around the barrel where the ring sits. Being able to engage the lever as little as necessary with inks that clean out easily helps avoid this. Also, a number of Noodlers smell like paint, and I just dont feel comfortable putting those in a vintage pen.

 

As far as Nathan, he is not one to do anything he cant escape from doing if he can, he is rather anti-regulatory, including self regulatory. He may modify formulas a little to better behavior (Polar inks), but dont expect warning labels. For example, does the label on BSB have a warning for the staining issues that are well known with it? The reason his inks are no longer very common in Europe is that he did not wish to meet the requirements the EU created to insure non-toxicity in products sold in the bloc, agree or disagree, all other ink makers big and small didnt appear to have an issue meeting them.

Edited December 10, 2017 by JakobS

[max dog]

 

You have better memory than I ... I was wracking my brain trying to remember where I heard it.

 

It was quite funny, Brian hiding in his closet doing the interview (for acoustics).

I thought that too, an interview in a closet . The Goulet's certainly come a long way since then with their current excellent and professionally done Q and As.

[RockingLR]

I thought that too, an interview in a closet . The Goulet's certainly come a long way since then with their current excellent and professionally done Q and As.

 

Thats why I shop almost exclusively through them for my fountain pen stuff. they've taught me SO much about FP's.

[TSherbs]

Noodler's is fine in any pen.

[Runnin_Ute]

To date, I have had few if any problems with Noodler's inks. I have only four - Black, 54th Massachusetts, Apache Sunset and Blue Eel. Most if not all have been in my Esterbrooks, but at last check none under my watch have been in my Parker 51 Special. Only because sometimes they are more difficult to clean out than other inks.

The collector in the 51 holds a lot of ink as well. In the couple of years I have had it, it has mostly Waterman Serenity Blue, but also Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, Diamine Blue Black, Diamine Sherwood Green and currently Lamy Pacific. I think it would handle the Noodler's without issue, but I just haven't done it. After all, Parker recommended on the filler bar to use "Dry Writing Superchrome Ink". Which to my understanding was pretty nasty.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Runnin_Ute

[eharriett]

I regularly use Aircorp Blue Black in my vintage pens. Works great. I recently put away a Waterman Emblem that had Noodler's 5 O'Clock Shadow in it.

 

Here's the thing: find out which inks stain pens. Find out yourself. I keep my own council and not go by reviews for this. I have a couple of Jinhao's and a couple of Metropolitans for testing this very issue. If they wash out clean, they're fine for vintage. As far as damaging sacs go, Parker SuperChrome damages sacs. Ron Zorn says that just about any red ink and many purples will damage sacs, regardless of whether they're new or old ink. Basically, I'm not too concerned.

 

I **DO** care about how well the ink will flush out of a pen. But if it flushes out easily, I don't care about anything else.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the inks are one of the things that make fountain pens so much fun. And Noodlers Ink is some of the most interesting ink you can get. Have fun!