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Restoring An Mb 146G (1950S) - My Journey


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#21 slippery when wet

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 21:03

I'm also confident/hopeful that by the time the piston has had a chance to take in some WD-40 and you also get silicone grease into it the piston should work smoothly

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#22 piscov

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 21:35

All of the above is great advise, remember to clean out the threads before you reassemble

This is very important! Heating the section and the filler mechanism threads a bit is also advisable. This way they are less prone to break while reassembling 


Best regards
Vasco

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#23 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 00:29

My Guru Francis made this for me:

fpn_1512496365__bba90ee5-4422-449b-9d61-

fpn_1512496416__45eea8a4-32df-4e6f-9f8c-

Some points to consider when fashioning your tool.

The tool must NOT pinch the filler tube even when tightly closed.

The pin is kept removable so that first the tool is clamped/closed around the tube. It will now rotate with slight clearance so that tube is not deformed under any condition. Then the pin is inserted aligning the tool hole and filler hole. Now the pin provides the traction.

The depth of the pin entering the filler must not be too much or it will contact the innards- driving shaft and possibly mar/ damage.

A tool can be made in the disc concept as well instead of the plier concept.

HTH.


Very cool! How about lending it to me for today :)

#24 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 00:31

This is very important! Heating the section and the filler mechanism threads a bit is also advisable. This way they are less prone to break while reassembling 


Will take both your advice on this for sure!

#25 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 00:31

I'm also confident/hopeful that by the time the piston has had a chance to take in some WD-40 and you also get silicone grease into it the piston should work smoothly

. Fingers crossed!

#26 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 00:33

You've got the section out which is the most delicate operation, well done !
Next step is getting the filler unit out :
Open the filling knob completely and cover the filling knob and the barrel end with Blu tack, avoiding the edge of the celluloid filling knob  and barrel get overheated & deforms
Then do as Hari suggests : "Heat the filler threads area alone and attempt to unscrew the filler"
Wishing you succes !
Francis


Thank you and Hari for this advice. I was going to heat the bottom of the barrel instead. Now I wont.

#27 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:55

Quick Questions:

 

1. How far out of the section does a properly working telescoping piston extend? Does the entire cork unit clear out past the section threads? Or does it just peep out, like it would on a 334 1/2 or other vintage non-telescopic pistons?

 

2. Once the piston extends up to the section opening, does the entire part of the piston detach and come out of the barrel (like in a 334 1/2) or I am supposed to fix the new cork with the piston gear and cork nut still in the barrel?

 

Thanks!



#28 slippery when wet

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:48

From memory, it won't stick out, it usually just sits shy of the barrel end. The piston will not detach (unless it's broken)

Edited by slippery when wet, 06 December 2017 - 04:01.


#29 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:09

From memory, it won't stick out, it usually just sits shy of the barrel end. The piston will not detach (unless it's broken)


This means I will need to sit the cork and nut while the piston is still in the barrel. If so, I am wondering if I should try putting a cork on right now and seeing if this allows for friction against the barell wall that might just make the second stage of the piston engage and work. At present only one stage of the piston works. This might be due to the fact that there is no friction to engage the second stage? Does this make any sense? Or should both stages of piston work even if there is no cork on the piston head?

#30 slippery when wet

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:48

You are correct about friction/ pressure being needed to engage the 2 stage piston

#31 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:57

You are correct about friction/ pressure being needed to engage the 2 stage piston

OK, let me try re-corking tonight and seeing it that works. If not, worst case, I will just remove the cork and have wasted a cork - no biggie. I need to wait for tools to open the piston in any case, which will take a few days. Ill report back soon



#32 hari317

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 06:14

A quick way to apply safe back pressure(without actually corking the pen) is by use of a thin wooden chop stick/eraser ended pencil etc. Make sure it is narrow enough to not get stuck inside barrel. Just hold it against the screw for cork and very gently press inside. while gently pressing, operate the piston knob to check the piston extension operation.  


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#33 slippery when wet

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 06:26

fpn_1512541513__img_20171206_161510.jpg
This is the tool I use to remove a 146 piston

#34 slippery when wet

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 06:28

A quick way to apply safe back pressure(without actually corking the pen) is by use of a thin wooden chop stick/eraser ended pencil etc. Make sure it is narrow enough to not get stuck inside barrel. Just hold it against the screw for cork and very gently press inside. while gently pressing, operate the piston knob to check the piston extension operation.


+1

#35 piscov

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 07:20

One trick that works very well and will make cork installing easier is to remember that the cork can also be just slightly undersized.

It will make it easier to install.

 

1) Install the cork in place and screw in the nut just till it sits flush with the top screw base, At this time you may still not have friction enough nor water tightness.

2) retract the piston all the way down. Using a wood dowel helps as Hari said before.

3) then screw the nut till the cork has enough diametral pressure against the barrel's inner walls to engage and to the "make vacuum" and therefore be watertight. Don't overtighten. Srewing this nut will make the cork compress and "grow diametrally has it is limited at the top and bottom and so it can only "grow" to the sides adjusting to the barrel diameter.

 

Some barrels have differential ID over the length of them, after all, they are more than 60 years old. A cork with enough diametral pressure will adjust to it up to some point.

 

To screw the nut inside the barrel you can use the tool made out of a piece of tube or car antenna showed above. Make sure the tool is of the correct size just with the OD just a bit smaller than the ID of the barrel. This way it will not scratch or injure the barrel internal walls.

 

Only screw the amount you need. There is no need to over tighten. Check if it´s doing vacuum using your thumb to close the barrel and retracting the piston. If the finger gets "stuck" and you have a loud pop when you take the thumb out, it's ready!

 

This trick will only work if the corkscrew base that holds the cork does not rotate when you screw in the nut, so you have to check if it rotates or not. If it rotates you need to apply diametrical force on the top of the last metal tube so the metal makes an interference fit with the base of the corkscrew base and "crimp on the tube". (hope this makes sense, I am lacking some technical words to describe the process). It's easy to achieve that. If you need I can send you pictures.

This is done with the same pliers I showed above, using the lower part of it that is meant to take the plastic cover from electrical wires


Best regards
Vasco

simbolo-e-nomesmall2_zps47c0db08.jpg

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#36 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:19

Thanks for the suggestions! Im going to use the idea proposed by Hari and Slippery to check if the piston works before putting the new cork in. If it doesnt work then Ill need to take the piston out once my tools come in.

I have already made a few corks a while ago based on the size of a 3341/2 barrel. Would it be different for this 146? Ill try tonight

#37 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:22

One trick that works very well and will make cork installing easier is to remember that the cork can also be just slightly undersized.
It will make it easier to install.
 
1) Install the cork in place and screw in the nut just till it sits flush with the top screw base, At this time you may still not have friction enough nor water tightness.
2) retract the piston all the way down. Using a wood dowel helps as Hari said before.
3) then screw the nut till the cork has enough diametral pressure against the barrel's inner walls to engage and to the "make vacuum" and therefore be watertight. Don't overtighten. Srewing this nut will make the cork compress and "grow diametrally has it is limited at the top and bottom and so it can only "grow" to the sides adjusting to the barrel diameter.
 
Some barrels have differential ID over the length of them, after all, they are more than 60 years old. A cork with enough diametral pressure will adjust to it up to some point.
 
To screw the nut inside the barrel you can use the tool made out of a piece of tube or car antenna showed above. Make sure the tool is of the correct size just with the OD just a bit smaller than the ID of the barrel. This way it will not scratch or injure the barrel internal walls.
 
Only screw the amount you need. There is no need to over tighten. Check if it´s doing vacuum using your thumb to close the barrel and retracting the piston. If the finger gets "stuck" and you have a loud pop when you take the thumb out, it's ready!
 
This trick will only work if the corkscrew base that holds the cork does not rotate when you screw in the nut, so you have to check if it rotates or not. If it rotates you need to apply diametrical force on the top of the last metal tube so the metal makes an interference fit with the base of the corkscrew base and "crimp on the tube". (hope this makes sense, I am lacking some technical words to describe the process). It's easy to achieve that. If you need I can send you pictures.
This is done with the same pliers I showed above, using the lower part of it that is meant to take the plastic cover from electrical wires


Very interesting! I never thought of this. It has been a nightmare trying to get the perfect diameter on pistons but your technique sounds like a good way to enter the barrel and then fine tune for diameter. Will keep in mind

#38 piscov

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 09:39

Thanks for the suggestions! Im going to use the idea proposed by Hari and Slippery to check if the piston works before putting the new cork in. If it doesnt work then Ill need to take the piston out once my tools come in.

I have already made a few corks a while ago based on the size of a 3341/2 barrel. Would it be different for this 146? Ill try tonight

Yes, 146 has a larger ID than a 334 1/2


Best regards
Vasco

simbolo-e-nomesmall2_zps47c0db08.jpg

Check out "Pena Lusa by Piscov". Pens added on a regular basis!

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#39 CS388

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 11:20

You are correct about friction/ pressure being needed to engage the 2 stage piston

 

Hello slippery. Hope you're well.

 

I'm not clear why friction would be needed? When the piston unit is removed and out of the pen, both stages of the piston work, ie it fully extends and fully retracts, without any external friction. Why would it be different when fitted in the barrel?

 

Just wondering.

Regards, CS



#40 siamackz

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 15:58

A quick way to apply safe back pressure(without actually corking the pen) is by use of a thin wooden chop stick/eraser ended pencil etc. Make sure it is narrow enough to not get stuck inside barrel. Just hold it against the screw for cork and very gently press inside. while gently pressing, operate the piston knob to check the piston extension operation.  


Tried this, but the piston still doesnt engage both phases - only one phase seems to be working. The other phase just has the blind cap turning but no movement of the piston.

I guess I will need to open the piston up. My tool came in but its not what I needed. Will need to order something else.

Ill report back after I have the right tools!






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