Vintage Onoto Plunger Fill Pens

[jhataway]

I have read several reviews on such pens from e.g. the late 1930's such as the 6233 and 6234 where the reviewers discuss problems with flow adjustment (poor flow to blobs). Since these pens were very popular in the UK at the time of manufacture, it is hard for me to believe that the problems described now were present then. So, I am left wondering what could be the difference. Can someone enlighten me? I would like to add one of these pens to my collection, but am wary because I use my pens, and reliable performance from the filling system, feed, and nib are musts. The same reviewers have good things to say about the nibs. Thanks.

Jim

Edited November 27, 2017 by jhataway

[praxim]

I too have good things to say about the nibs so I will set that part aside.

 

My opinion is that problems with Onotos have little to do with the filling mechanism and much to do with the feeds. There is also a portion which is to do with quality of restoration, being how precisely the shutoff valve meets the feed tube and whether there are any air leaks around the piston top.

 

Pulling out a couple of Onoto 6234, I confirm that their feed is unfinned on the underside. This is not promising for buffering ink. It thus becomes more important to achieve a few things for stable ink flow:

• Avoid extraneous air leaks around the piston rod at the top seal.
• Ensure proper shutoff when needed.
• "Tune" the valve opening to flow needs in use.
• Allow for impacts of high and low ink levels, and heat of the hand.

Problems such as air leaks, quality of feed, and heat impacts occur in many different pens of the period so to some extent this is part of the territory for vintage pens. Onotos are, as it were, more personalised than others, not so much temperamental as needing to be learned. It was likely assumed at the time that you had only one pen, or two Onotos if more than one.

 

If you want to use an Onoto on a daily basis then that (using it daily) is probably a good thing. One learns to handle it correctly as a habit, then are left to enjoy the nib which is easily done.

 

My Onoto count currently sits at eighteen and most of those I consider quite reliable, but few of them do I expect to be able to pick up, fill, and use without further thought. I sold one (a duplicate among mine) a while ago and received good feedback (a message, not ebay thing) from the buyer after using it.

 

For the perennial car analogy, it is a bit like my Alfa Romeo from decades ago: gorgeous engine when running, trying to start it from cold was the issue.

[Cob]

Most of the Onotos I have rebuilt have been OK although the alleged ink cut-off system seldom works as Onoto claimed it did. Perhaps that's just a function of old age.

 

There is of course a trade-off between the optimum relationship between the position of the feed (relative to the nib) and the action of the shut-off.

 

The nibs are generally OK, some of the early (pre 1920) stubs are glorious, though generally I prefer Mabie Todd nibs.

 

 

Cob

Edited November 27, 2017 by Cob

[jhataway]

Thanks for the info. Assuming the seals and plunger are properly installed, it would seem to me that the feed would be the problem. Do you think an improved feed part (like with fins, etc.) could resolve the problem, and could this be made by a pen restorer/nib master?

[praxim]

..... Do you think an improved feed part (like with fins, etc.) could resolve the problem, and could this be made by a pen restorer/nib master?

I suspect not although it may be less misleading, potentially, to say I have no idea.

[praxim]

Further to this, it has been a little while since I filled an Onoto, owing to an inexplicable onrush of new other pens which had to be tried. Today I filled one of the 6234 pens with No 5 nib, along with a 1950s Pelikan, modern Lamy Dialog 3 and Santini Italia, and an old Waterman 52 1/2V, so I had some good comparisons because all are excellent pens. The modern stiff nib of the Lamy is very smooth as one expects. The others (non-Onoto) show some degree of feedback (most with the Pelikan, least with the Santini). The standout is the Onoto. In a wholly metaphorical sense, it is like writing with silk, perhaps smoother than the Lamy yet more alive*, yet completely without skritch. I am reminded of why I fell in love with Onotos in the first place.

 

* That could be a weight thing. The Lamy is by far my heaviest pen in writing mode, whereas the Onoto is among the lighter ones.

 

On a mechanical note, the pen filled properly and has not blobbed at all. As usual, I write with the valve wholly closed until I see some indication of inadequate ink flow, which is not happening yet.

[eachan]

Any ink-in-the-barrel pen like an Onoto, Parker Vac or eyedropper filler may have a tendency to blot. This is well known. The Onoto shut-off valve was designed to obviate this problem by controlling ink flow but unfortunately this function doesn't always work well on restored pens. This is due to wear of the moving parts in the many years since these pens were made.

 

I can't imagine that anyone except a pen manufacturer can make a feed, a highly technical exercise. It requires the ability to design the feed and mould or machine plastic or hard rubber. That's rather beyond the capability of nib meisters and pen restorers.

 

It may be that the Onoto doesn't meet your needs.

[slippery when wet]

Praxim makes a good point in his First comment which more often than not goes unnoticed

 

"Tune" the valve opening to flow needs in use

 

I have had many onotos and I always make a conscious effort to remember to close down the shut off valve to the point it only allows the minimum amount of ink through. Onotos have some of the best nibs you will find and while I haven't been collecting them for some years , I still have a few that I will probably never sell.

[ralfstc]

Hi folks,

 

I think everybody is correct to point to the feed. I've come to divide the 20th century history of fountain pen design very crudely into pre and post Parker 51, because it seems to me that the greatest contribution of the 51 to pen design was to underline the importance of huge buffering capacity within the feed (/collector).

 

Retrofitting an older pen with a higher capacity feed is a fascinating idea. I wonder what would fit?

 

Ralf

[richardandtracy]

Think of the amount of buffering capability on a P51, it almost completely fills the thin walled hood, and on later pens it may well amount to 0.3-0.4cc. In the earlier Onotos (N/O/2000/3000), there is absolutely no room at all in the section as the diameter is tiny and the feed it moderately large diameter. If you were to retrofit a finned feed, you'd have to make completely new innards to the pen. The feed would have to be longer to end above the new collector. A collector would be put into the lower part of the barrel, above the section, a moderately well sealed bulkhead on top of that and a new, shorter plunger in a re-worked barrel.

 

To be honest, it would be more sensible to remove the nib & put it in a specially designed pen.

 

It could work well, but, isn't having ink all over your fingers and your work one of the joys of an old Onoto?

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[ralfstc]

(Looks at fingers . . .)

 

It certainly seems to be!

 

Thanks for the thought experiment Richard. I'm visualizing it . . . . I wonder if you could make the feed deeper "below" the nib and cut lots of micro-grooves like a p51 collector . . .

[praxim]

I would have a spare feed on hand before commencing the experiment

 

I have just put a[nother] 3050 into action. It is behaving as well as any modern pen, such that I do not need to think twice about using it even though there is not really a collector to be seen. On the older models, restricting flow with the tuning knob (at filling time known as the plunger knob) is the workaround for lack of ink collector. I keep careful notes on how each one likes to be treated.

[Flounder]

If you ask me, heat-related blobbing is entirely due to user error. These pens were designed to be used in pre-central heating, pre-double glazing leaky garrets, by impoverished, failing poets scratching away at their fleabites and ignoring the bailiffs pounding at the door for late rent.

[Methersgate]

I have just read this thread; I had adopted the habit of closing the valve when writing, and just cracking it open when the pen starts to dry, and I am pleased to learn that others also do it. I had less happy experiences with Pelikan and Mont Blanc labelled ink (which I fancy might be the same stuff?) and better experiences with Diamine, in the Onotos that I use regularly.

 

Anyone who hasnt used an older Onoto nib is yet to enjoy one of lifes little pleasures.

[Methersgate]

Very good point about the Parker 51 collector.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Methersgate

[ralfstc]

If you ask me, heat-related blobbing is entirely due to user error. These pens were designed to be used in pre-central heating, pre-double glazing leaky garrets, by impoverished, failing poets scratching away at their fleabites and ignoring the bailiffs pounding at the door for late rent.

 

 

The skinny ones, true, but not the Magna. It was meant to be used on oak desks the size of a double bed by people wearing morning suits and top hats to sign multinational industrial agreements. Or so I like to think.

 

R.

[praxim]

Although in that case, the valet will have warmed the pen by the roaring log fire, prior to handing over the prepared pen with white-gloved hands.

[Methersgate]

This may be the place to ask the Onoto Magna question:

 

It is perhaps "the" "grail pen" if one likes old British fountain pens, but because so many people feel, like me, that "no collection is complete without" a Magna, they have gone from "absurdly expensive" to "ridiculously expensive".

 

I read Dr Oldfield's technical article on his website, here:

http://www.penpractice.com/page25.html

 

and I thought, "Do I really want one?"

Do I?

Thanks in advance...

[Cob]

I have had quite a few Onotos; at the moment i have just two - and parts of others... There is the "torpedo" curiosity I have written about elsewhere and my engraved old sterling silver one that I shall probably not sell, even though it has an anachronistic nib (a 3/st).

 

I'm not bothered about owning a Magna, but I should love to have a Mammoth.

 

Cob

[praxim]

I have two vintage Magna plunge-fillers, one a pre-war Silver ink-visible and the other a post-war plain black. Both are beautiful pens. The No 7 nib is a distinctive pleasure to use.

 

Your caution is probably related to the final paragraph in that article. In my view those are generic cautions about plunge-fill Onotos, not problems unique or specific to the Magna. If you can handle an Onoto, say, one of the 62xx series, you can handle a Magna. I have not had a Magna blob yet from mine. I regard them as among my well-behaved Onotos.

 

I have not spotted a Mammoth in the wild. I do have an 1822 which seems to be the only other pen with the same 18xx base numbering as the Mammoth and Magna. Although I have seen it referred to as the poor man's Mammoth, it is smaller, and has a No 5 nib like most of my 62xx pens so I am not sure there is any great kinship rather than marketing there.