Comment: Nib Line Sizes

[mke]

Especially, in the Japanese subsection you can read that the nib line sizes are quite different in Japan (Asia general?) and Europe/US and people from outside Japan are often advised to buy one level higher.

 

I am living in Japan and own a lot of "Japanese" nibs but I only have a CdA M nib (1994) and 2 Pelikan M nibs (end of the 80s) so I had to believe what I heard from other members.

I started buying some vintage EU/US pens and I needed to confirm the "rumours" because I didn't know what to buy. So, I decided to play a little bit around and buy some Jowo steel nibs (Rhodium plated), size EF, F, M and B - I own already XXXF and XXF. I started my experiment with the M size and I have to admit this M delivers really broad (in my eyes) lines. So, the story of small Japanese nibs 1 Level below EU/US sizes seems to be true (exceptions occur). My Pilot 74 with B nib gives equivalent line sizes to the Jowo M.

 

I will test these nibs one after the other and "publish" the results so others can decide more easily.

 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Mke, some good poster has said, now made Parker and Sheaffer nibs are nearly as thin as Japanese...

A fine Japanese poster said Sailor is fatter than Pilot.

Aurora is the skinniest Euro pen, close to Japanese from what I read.

 

Modern Pelikan is much fatter than vintage or semi-vintage Pelikan.

So you have a lot of pens to buy.....

[ac12]

My old US Parker nibs are finer than the current Parker nibs, for the same grade.

I've heard similar for the old and current Lamy nibs.

 

Because of the lack of standardized grades, I've given up on manufacturer's grades and now rely on my own measurements of the nib with a caliper or micrometer.

If I had an old Parker nib guide, I would use that instead of a caliper.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have a chart, late '80's- mid 90's, that show both Parker as fatter than Sheaffer, both fatter than Pelikan. Pelikan had two widths, the rest and the 800 which was skinnier. The 800 half way to Waterman.

Pelikan EF was skinnier than the rest including the Waterman. I think the 400/200 and the 800 had the same size EF.

 

This was before Japanese pens became popular in they are not mentioned.

 

Now the 400/600 and 800 are much fatter than that semi-vintage time. The 200 not.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson

[mke]

I have NoNonsense Sheaffers which I like very much, b.t.w. Their F-nibs are between Japanese F and M which is actually my preferred line size. I try to get more of these.

I just bought a Jade-green Lifetime Flattop Sheaffer which needs restoration. As soon as this has been done, I can get a glimpse if old and new Sheaffers behave similarly.

 

I have a batch of Parkers from the 60s/70s/80s - all 75s and 180s in a variety of nib sizes. If I have a bit of time, I will also check these.

 

With Japanese pens, I am very much focused on Sailor. F is OK , M is a tad too large. Apart from a Custom 823 and a Custom 845, my Pilot pens are all retired, might take them out again for a comparison, however. Recently, I also tested a B nib of a Platinum Izumo. That was even a bit smaller than the Jowo M. Very nice, actually. A surprising find.

 

This is work for the next holidays. I want to restart from zero using always the same ink and the same paper.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Every company had/has it's own standard, that it's customers back in the Day of One Man, One Pen, were use to. If one wanted a skinner nib one bought a Sheaffer, if wider, then a Parker, with in the same marking.

 

They did not make the same size nibs, in their customers wanted the same as they were getting, or the company trained them to like their standard. One didn't in one pen days want a customer to make a huge mistake and buy a Sheaffer, instead of the Parker he bought a decade before.

 

Then there is slop/tolerance where a skinny M can exactly match a fat F. An other's nib could be a MF or an FM to what one was use to as a M or F...................and I tend to doubt that anyone was as OCD as we are now. You only had one pen, and perhaps the old one you gave to your wife.

You were a Ford man, or a Chevy man, just like you were a Sheaffer man or a Parker man.....brand loyalty.

 

Finally there is the era which the pen is made, I know Pelikans better than Sheaffer or Parker. Pelikan of the '50-65 era were semi-flex stubs and as wide as the regular flex small ball tipped '82-90's, and the same standard. Writes with a cleaner line than modern....IMO.

 

Modern Pelikans are fatter, (double Kugal) stiffer except for the 200, in the user being a Ball Point Barbarian who more than likely started with a Pelikan ball point or Roller ball, were ham fisted nib Pretzel makers. And they were and are made so a ball point user don't have to learn to hold a fountain pen properly....in it was hard enough to get him to buy a fountain pen in the first place, with out making things complicated.

Yes, the modern user has more a butter smooth nib......though I find the level just under; good and smooth of semi-vintage and vintage to be just fine....one can actually use slick papers.

The good thing about the modern Pelikan semi-nail and nail, is they make good stubs and CI's, when one gets bored with the characterless round blob nib.

I'm not prejudiced.....I made that judgement after buying a fat and blobby modern Pelikan now a 1.0 stub....and having lots of vintage and semi-vintage Pelikans.

 

And the "numbers' 0.8, 1.0, 1.2, and 1.5 will be just as off as what ever letter they supposedly replace. There is tolerance there too, there must be. Even robot made Lamy nibs of a Safari or others varies slightly in width....yep, robots have tolerance. I have seen the 4 yard by 10 yard steel nib making machine at the Lamy factory when I took a factory tour.

 

In my signature I say be happy for 1/2 sizes, or it would be boring. Paper and ink will make up to a full width difference in a nib's performance also.

Then add how heavy or light handed the user is..........and measurements end up being hand grenade close only.

 

Very skinny, skinny, medium, wide, very wide.......and ignore the marking on the nib..........everyone including 'noobies' -on the com- should have an idea @ how wide a nib will be in it's marking. The info is there.

Japanese one size too small....to western users.....European one size too wide to those who started with Japanese pens.

OCD = Sailor is fat, Pilot is skinny????

 

Some folks can't use laid paper or linen paper....their nibs are too skinny.

Some people insist on using ball point Moleskine paper..... so need a very skinny nib with very dry ink.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Bo Bo Olson