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Lady Patricia Questions


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#1 Scanspeak

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 14:56

I acquired a gorgeous Lady Patricia pen some time ago and used it up until April or so. Great pen, unfortunately small for my hands which made me give up on it. I recently sold it to a buyer in Hungary and after receiving it, he said it writes for about 2 minutes and then stops. He sent it for repair before to discuss further, I hope they don`t brake it, because of my recent findings which I need validated by someone with more experience with these pens.

 

The Pen is the one from the 1988-1990 catalogue (I have attached a photo of the one I sold). I was using it with Lamy black ink and filled the original cartridge that came with the pen using a syringe. Worked great for many months. I decided to buy Waterman ink and contacted Waterman directly. They replied this pen takes the Waterman International Mini cartridges. I ordered a pack from the local representative and when they arrived, I stuck one in the pen. It was the darkest blue they had but when I wrote, the pen produced very light lines. I thought it might be due to the flushing I did before to insert the new ink (water + some dishwash liquid) but it kept writting pale. As I am using another pen far more often, I stopped using this one and sold it. Gave the Waterman cartridges to the buyer for free.

 

He reported it would write for like 2 minutes and stop. He cleaned it even with ultrasonic so it should be clean. He then decided to send it for repair. I did some research and found something that might be the cause, but need someone to step in.

 

The original Lady Patricias were usually with a smooth same color grip section, so this one is supposed to be burgundy. But it had the fine grip type section, same as on the Waterman Executive. I have seen many others like this one posted by other members both here and for sale so I believe this is the way Waterman built it by some reason. Thing is, if this is the Executive grip, it is likely fitted with the Executive feed and unlike I guess the smooth barrel ones which take International minis, the Executive needs a CF. The buyer reported the cartridge fit was too tight and produced vacuum, when he pulled it for a moment and reinserted it, pen started to write again for 2 minutes or so.

 

is it possible these Lady Patricias (and the Lady Charlotte which also comes with this configuration) need a CF converter and not the International mini? I suspect waterman gave me wrong advice as they might have believed I had the smooth grip one, it is my mistake as I did not send them a picture of the pen.

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#2 Tweel

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 16:17

As far as I know, the Executive and Exclusive take modern cartridges and converters, not C/F.

fpn_1375035941__postcard_swap.png * * * "Don't neglect to write me several times from different places when you may."
-- John Purdue (1863)

 


#3 Force

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 16:35

The Lady you sold (pictured) is a Bordeaux.

 

My period Waterman catalogue, which you may have seen elsewhere on here, shows it with the Bordeaux coloured smooth section grip BUT when Googling I have seen this model with the fluted black section grip more common to the Executive. So either by coincidence all have had their sections changed or the Bordeaux may have been supplied with either at some point in production. I will add that the gold plated ring near the nib (cap clip ring) is susceptible to corrosion so perhaps they have been swapped out by a repair shop who could only get or who had spare stock of certain sections. I know this for fact because my Executive was repaired many years ago by a UK repair shop and they fitted an Exclusive (hand grenade grip) section which they had stock of.

 

Waterman were correct in that all Lady models should accept the short international cartridge. IMHO a CF converter is not the correct one for this pen.

 

I wonder if one or all of the ink tracks may have become blocked and that only removal of the feed system is the answer to clean it out. They are very fine as seen in this picture.

 

For info all versions of the section are interchangeable between Lady, Exclusive and Executive pens. Obviously when in the latter two, long cartridges and converter may be used. Also some nibs on some Lady models are not solid gold but gold plated steel.

 

In addition, some time ago I had cause to build one good section from two faulty sections and found the feed from one would not fit the other...way too tight and yes I had their nib position orientation correct.

 

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#4 Scanspeak

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 16:43

See the links below - both concern Lady Charlotte but the section is identical and both state the use of C/F converter. I found other websites mentioning they could`t use International minis and modified a Monteverde converter to suit. The pen I got came from a lady who received it a a present in 1994, BNIB. She had never used it and it was kept in box all that time. The cartridge was the original one that came with it. That makes me rule out the possibility of having the front barrel being changed due to barrel corrosion, I suspect these were a production run and might have been built with the Charlotte/Executive barrel due to shortage of the other model at the factory, or maybe they got too many of the Charlotte/Executive barrels and decided to use them.

 

http://www.peytonstr...works-well.html

http://dirck.delint....a/?page_id=6146



#5 Force

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 16:58

See the links below - both concern Lady Charlotte but the section is identical and both state the use of C/F converter. I found other websites mentioning they could`t use International minis and modified a Monteverde converter to suit. The pen I got came from a lady who received it a a present in 1994, BNIB. She had never used it and it was kept in box all that time. The cartridge was the original one that came with it. That makes me rule out the possibility of having the front barrel being changed due to barrel corrosion, I suspect these were a production run and might have been built with the Charlotte/Executive barrel due to shortage of the other model at the factory, or maybe they got too many of the Charlotte/Executive barrels and decided to use them.

 

http://www.peytonstr...works-well.html

http://dirck.delint....a/?page_id=6146

I honestly believe Peyton Street pens have been given or implied incorrect data.

 

Ernst (Ravens March) is pointing to the fact the cartridge for the Executive is similar to the C/F style and not the Maxima. Maybe his review should be clarified.

 

While your case of originality may well be true sometimes things are forgotten over time. I purchased a watch January time from the original owner of 30+ years. According to him It had never been opened or serviced. It arrived and upon opening all the visible screws showed driver marks and the bezel was from another watch altogether. One just never knows with TIME.



#6 Xof72000

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 17:47

Those models only use Waterman International cartridges.



#7 Scanspeak

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:50

Thanks for all input. What could be the cause of this reported "vacuum" in the cartridge? If the guy could call the shop before they have attempted to dismantle the pen, I would rather refund him and get it back, started to miss it anyways, even if not the most comfortable for my hands.


Edited by Scanspeak, 25 November 2017 - 09:51.


#8 Force

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 10:48

I have never used the Waterman International (short) cartridges but my only thoughts would be on how much ink were inside.

 

When using either long cartridges or a converter I tend to keep them as full as possible when in regular use. It does not take long to dip the tip into a bottle or syringe fill a cartridge. The principle being there is then sufficient mass of ink to overcome the small air pocket vacuum.

 

I just wonder if with the short cartridge, when containing little ink, the vacuum is then too great to allow the ink the drop. 



#9 Scanspeak

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:03

In general it should be as the smaller barrel is more rigid. But it doesn`t make any sense as I have used it for many months with no issues. One possibility could be a hard piece of ink has left its spot and blocked the feed. The guy said he has some news but will contact me Monday. I think I will have it back, I sold it for far less than what these retail for in similar condition.

 

I live in Bulgaria, there are no repair shops afaik, how hard it is to dismantle it and inspect the feed myself?



#10 Force

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 12:46

In general it should be as the smaller barrel is more rigid. But it doesn`t make any sense as I have used it for many months with no issues. One possibility could be a hard piece of ink has left its spot and blocked the feed. The guy said he has some news but will contact me Monday. I think I will have it back, I sold it for far less than what these retail for in similar condition.

 

I live in Bulgaria, there are no repair shops afaik, how hard it is to dismantle it and inspect the feed myself?

Dismantling is OK with care. Soak the parts in water for 24 hours to provide lubrication. The nib and feed must be drawn from the front ONLY and for ease of reassembly, note the orientation position before removal. Because the nib and feed are long I don't recommend waggling. My preferred method is to protect the nib and feed with rubber, grip them with a pair of lockable pliers or vice and evenly lever the grip off.

 

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#11 Scanspeak

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 13:39

Hi Force, thanks very much, it actually came back that the pen is fine so won`t be coming back to me...unfortunately. But this guide is really helpful, will try to memorize it.








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